Augusta council reviews easement, 2027 bond package, data centers

[6:25] Mark O'Brien: Yes, we're on. Hey, everyone. This is an informational meeting of the Augusta City Council. It's Thursday, October 8, 2026. Please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance, followed by a moment of silence. Allegiance to the flag, to the states of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Caught me a little off guard there. All right, you did well, sir. All right, good. All right, I'd like to preview tonight's meeting for everybody here in council chambers and watching on TV, and we'll follow the usual course of our informational meetings, and it goes like this. Part A of our business, our informational meeting agenda, is persons wishing to address the city council. We've submitted a formal request to do so in accordance with our ordinances, and we don't have any of those tonight. Part B is the open comment period for any persons wishing to address the city council. In part C is when the council discusses certain listed topics that are put on the agenda either by a council member and or the city manager, and we have three of those listed topics tonight. C1 will be the Greater Augusta Utility District easement at Maycumber Park on Gage Street. C2 will be the 2027 capital improvement program and fall referendum, including the council bond projects, and third tonight will be our first discussion about data centers. So with that, as I noted before, we don't have any persons who have submitted a formal request, so we'll move directly to part B, and that's open comment period for any persons wishing to address the city council, and if we have any of, yep, if we have any of those tonight, we'll have you come down to the end of the table here and identify yourself and where you're from, and we allot five minutes for those, for those remarks or testimony. Probably [8:50] Public commenter (Jane from White Side, Ward 4): won't have five minutes. I mean, I probably won't need five minutes. I'm Jane from White Side, from Ward Four, and I just want to appreciate it, two things. From the public works perspective, they helped with a porcupine that was hit on the road, I appreciate that, and then the police had a concern in my area, I really appreciate that. But I'm here again to talk about fast food restaurants or restaurants in general and being a public safety possible litigation concern. We see a lot of these events in the News, fortunately not too many in Augusta, but they have been rising throughout the state and throughout the nation. We really need to think if there's an incident at a Augusta restaurant that it could affect return retention. That's to not just that restaurant that could have a problem, but also to all the restaurants in the area, because people hear about concerns with restaurants not just with food safety, but also incidents in the news and even not in the news if they hear things in the rumor mill. So I've looked in the media a lot of times keep current on events in Maine and on this subject area two three things two things really three things come to mind recently. One was in Portland at a fast food restaurant, they had a container with a closed big container with the clear for needles. Now, that could have been, it's hard to say if it was a problem or not because there wasn't much context with that person around. This area could be doing the same thing, carrying it around in their area. But then one that was a little bit more concerning to me was down in Lewiston where they had a fire incident a big fire incident fast food workers with problem with the fire friolator and it just sounded from what I read about it the people the workers were just fooling around didn't know what to do it kept going on for like an hour and a half until they finally called the fire department and then finally in Portland where things are a little bit more violent lately. I really, if you can look at the incidents in the news for yourself, I'm not going to list them because they can be kind of violent and I'm not going to describe them. But down there, you know, this is something I think you want a long term, a little bit longer term, but not too long term. Look at a standalone public safety policy regarding restaurants and fast food restaurants. I think it's very much needed and very,, very much needed in portland but we're not in portland but that's just my opinion so thank you for your time and attention and as always i appreciate the civility that you have here for all the times that i've come here i really appreciate that and you're listening to my and asking questions so thank you very much and i hope as i keep sharing things to inform you that it will help you think about this a little bit longer term but also in the short term. Thank you thank you thank you Is. [12:13] Public commenter (Dorothy Riley): It okay to go now? [12:14] Mark O'Brien: As long as you speak right into the microphone, so everybody will pick you up. [12:20] Public commenter (Dorothy Riley): My name is Dorothy Riley. Everyone knows that. The U.S. government and the governments of the federal agencies have lied about me to the world. I am a targeted individual of the FBI's COINTELPRO domestic terrorism and torture program. That did not dissolve in 1971. That's why the Senator Church Committee was formed to expose this. It is a long-term, slow-kill murder program, psychological warfare operations. A year and a half before I ever used light communications, I was targeted and tortured and terrorized by the FBI and the Roseville, California, Police Department. There is a global hate website of lies against me. The people who have abused me sexually, physically, psychologically in the worst ways you can imagine have been paid millions to lie about me in one my sister Lisa Betty Gerald Riley even filed false court documents when it should have been me against her lie to my mother and engaged in psychological elder abuse of my mother. I'm just going to read this I try and talk fast because I have too much to say in three minutes five minutes never be enough but I am innocent of everything being said against me. So I want to challenge the United States of America and the world to let me see this hate website. I'm not afraid. Let me see everything and let me defend myself. Nanobiotech and brain to computer interface, the FBI, Fed Intel and law enforcement and police agencies and agents and every person lying for money in California. Nanobiotech, the CIA. Have someone like me question them because I know how to avoid questions related to issues of national security. What I'm talking about is related to national and global security. And now we have these data mining centers where you already have Musk and Bezos where they're talking about transporting consciousness into robots. They're already doing that with brain-to-computer interface. interface. Someone could push a button on a computer and sexually assault me with nanobiotech. What's going to happen when you have people like Larry Ellison, CEO of Oracle, how he talks about 5 billion people being on IDGraph, that they have the data for all these people. What's going to happen when they nanobiotech the population and store consciousness in these AI data mining centers on computers that can make more than trillions of calculations per second, as Snowden proved over 10 years ago? What's going to happen to society? There's a culture of mass gain rate with men and boys occurring towards women, and it's getting worse. I have hundreds of examples, hundreds of references. Fahrenheit 9-11 by Michael Moore documentary, they talk about the war in America occurring. We have Inside Job documentary about the 2008 global financial crisis. I put the flag at half staff because we lost our republic. When the banks became nationalized, it was over. All the power, quote unquote power, was condensed in a few smaller hands. And these corrupt CEOs who cost millions of people to lose their homes, pensions, everything,, the last number I read was 15 million worked for the White House under Bush, George W., and Obama. It's bipartisan. I got hit by a car, not this past Monday, but the Monday before, in a psychological warfare operation. And men were surrounding me, and a couple of them were laughing, and the fireman was trying not to laugh. Everything people think about me is wrong. Everything they think they know me they may know things about me but what they have seen is a woman who was tortured and terrorized for years by the FBI and Roseville California police and I will not let these agencies lie about me without fighting with every cell in my body because what's gonna happen to the world in the New World Order globalist agenda it's gonna be bad so I want to finish reading this so we nano biotech them and that's without the years of FBI torture and terrorism in Roseville, California police and California police terrorized by Indore. We would get their thoughts before, without all that torture. I'm a mind control victim. I'm in brain wars with the Pentagon, with the international global mafia police, with the FBI, the CIA, and I'm innocent. And I have to keep fighting because they're using children in psych ops, baby strollers, school buses. This is very complicated to explain. I can't do it in this meeting because of what else I've talked about, but it is sick. It is sick, and I have to explain to the American people and world from the beginning how it occurs, and that's not something I can do so quickly. So I'm going to work on that next because it is disgusting. Mind control is not what people think, and if we nanobiotech these people who on the website who have lied about me, you will find out how much they got paid. I don't know if any of you have ever studied forensic psychology and law, but psychological coercion was implemented at a stronger rate in police departments starting about 15 years ago in the Minnesota Multi-Basic Inventory used to rule out psychopathic traits, but now those traits are looked for. So Dorothy, five minutes. Yeah, okay. I wish I had a documentary where I could start from the beginning. [18:07] Mark O'Brien: Thank you. All right, thank you. All right, invite anybody else, other members of the public who would like to address the city council during then. We'll move then to part C of our agenda and those listed topics, again, beginning with the Greater Augusta Utility District easement in Maycumber Park on Gage Street. [18:44] Jared J. Mills: Mr. Manager. Thank you, Your Honor. I'll invite, it's already here, our Director of Development Services to present a topic on an easement we're looking to support with the Greater Augusta Utilities District. There is information in the packet regarding that, and Matt can explain what they're looking for and why it's a benefit. Sure, Mr. Manager. [19:10] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): Mr. Mayor, Council, Matt Nazar, Director of Development Services for the city. As the manager has said, you have a memo in your packet that outlines a request the utility district has. They're doing a significant storm water improvement project that will We'll rewrote and separate stormwater on a portion of the west side, including water from Western Avenue and down Memorial Drive and then down Gage Street. And we'll dump into the anticipated dumping into a catch basin and a stormwater manhole that is actually on city property rather than out in the public street. I've provided a couple of maps. What the utility district is looking for is an easement on either side of that stormwater line that they're looking to install that would go from a catch basin in Gage Street to that stormwater manhole in Gage Street Park. The second diagram that I've showed provided to you give some context for the new line, which is shown in red on that particular plan, and as you can probably see from that particular diagram, the area where the new line is going is already heavily encumbered by existing. Utilities in the ground and should not have any impact on any potential development that site might have for the future. So that the potential development sites for the city on that in the future are sort of that paved area in the middle of that in the middle of that plan and then the grassy area in behind the utility it's there as well. So it's my opinion and my recommendation that the city council consider moving forward with this and allow the utility district to do this storm water upgrade as it shouldn't have an impact on the developability of the parcel any [21:09] Mark O'Brien: questions from counselors and courts thank you [21:11] Eric Lind: Mr Mayor hi Matt thank you for bringing this forward I apologize for my tardiness to the meeting today I think this is a great project I'm hopefully hearing that stormwater [21:23] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): will be moved more efficiently off of Western Ave potentially yes and it's also a stormwater separation from sewer so they're doing they're separating the stormwater and the [21:33] Eric Lind: sewer lines as well as a part of this project and that's like gold standard what we should be doing going forward yes my only question you mentioned in your memo that this would have some significant excavation work that would go on. Is there a timeline for that work? Do you know? [21:48] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): I don't have the exact dates. I know they intend to do this project in the next construction year. So next year. [21:57] Eric Lind: When this comes forward, this is a pretty residential neighborhood. Where might those individuals be able to kind of get information? Would it mostly come from us or mostly from? [22:06] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): It would be from the utility district. Great. [22:08] Eric Lind: So they could keep an eye on the utility district's website or their social media pages, [22:12] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): I'M CERTAIN THE UTILITY DISTRICT WILL PROVIDE NOTIFICATION TO NEIGHBORS WHEN THERE IS A TRAFFIC IMPACT. [22:19] Eric Lind: THIS SEEMS LIKE A VERY EASY YES FOR ME. I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT WE'RE CONTINUING TO WORK ON SEPARATING THE STORM WATER FROM THE SEWAGE AND ALSO AS SOMEONE WHO DRIVES WESTERN AVEN STORMS QUITE OFTEN, ANYTHING THAT HELPS WITH THAT WATER MOVING OFF OF THE ROAD IS A GREAT IDEA. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. [22:39] Mark O'Brien: OTHERS? ANY OBJECTIONS? NO. put it on an agenda yes we'll do next is the 2027 CIP the capital improvement program and the referendum and council bond projects that will be in front of voters on November [23:06] Jared J. Mills: 3rd I believe Mr. Manager. Thank your Honor. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about our capital improvement plan as we get closer to the referendum questions that will be on. That's actually started this week. We're absentee voting. We have information out on the desk downstairs regarding this, but wanted to take the opportunity to talk about it again with the council who went through this during budget process, but for folks watching at home so they can kind of get an idea of what they're voting on in November. As you know, What is a capital improvement plan? That's a plan that Municipalities use for short and long term planning for infrastructure improvements. As you can imagine, like your own household, as you as things come up in your homes and Vehicles and things like that, if there's a plan in place, a regular Thought process if you will, to not have all of these bills come, do it once. That's kind of what a capital improvement plan is for the city, roads, equipment, vehicles, you name it, what the city provides is within this plan that we try to keep current if you will, and looking short term and long term so we're not flooded with costs. We do a combination of tax increment financing to make these payments. We pay out of our general fund through taxes. We have as you know in the city a civic center and a landfill and an inter-service fund with central garage that kind of fund their own. They have their own way of funding like private enterprise accounts, and then we use council bonds which is seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year that the council can allot for borrowing without going to the voters, and then if borrowing is still needed, referendum bonds. Now you know where we are. Obviously we've borrowed the last few years because we went several years without borrowing. That has kind of put us in a position where as the manager and the dealing with you know working with a finance director and the team, you know, we've got to pay attention to costs and to keep things in perspective. Anything you put off, costs aren't going down. So when you see these plans, and they're pretty substantial, you know, our five-year capital improvement plan that really is kind of a 10-year plan that we have to shift each year that comes up to the council, we certainly have to keep those things in mind when we're making financial, you're making financial decisions. It's my job to make you aware of that. So each year we get together, the public works director, the fire chiefs, the police chiefs, and all of the services we provide, they provide input in the plan. You'll see, for instance, I'm going to get into detail of the 2027 specific capital improvement plan, but pools for example, we have to keep those on rotations so we're not fixing all of our pools in one year, and that's kind of being done and kept up on and staggered, if you will, so we can essentially afford to keep up on our infrastructure without large tax increases. So you know, as we go down through, we have up on the on the screen, I know it's a little small here, but councillors have the larger sheet in front of them, but for the folks at home, as you go down through our capital improvement plan for this year, 2027, it's a mixture. There's about 12 million dollars, a little over 12 million dollars in capital improvements we're looking to do. There's 110,000 of that coming out of our what we call our CIP surplus, capital improvement surplus. As you recall, we went through our capital improvement plans in the past and have found monies that were able to use and not have to borrow new money on, so there's a hundred and ten thousand dollars being used just this year out of that. We're using about almost a million dollars in tax increment financing to pay for some of these projects. So when we when we have a credit enhancement agreement or a TIF district, if you will, those monies that we capture, we can use on infrastructure and equipment. Therefore, we don't have to borrow and bond for that. So that's about $1 million coming out of there. Another just over $3 million out of the operating budget that we'll be using, and then the $750,000 council bond, and then a total of $7,370,000 that will go to the voters in November to decide on, and I'm going to kind of go down through those projects now. Importantly, for everybody to note, that about $1.8 million of that is in Civic Center borrowing. As you know, we've made the conscious effort to stay up on the Civic Center, improve the infrastructure there. So as I go through that you'll see what those projects entail, so that's kind of a summary But if you look at the sheet in front of you and for the folks viewing at home the Civic Center's at the top We have a bleacher project that is in dire need of a replacement that will be part of the referendum bond at the 1 million dollar mark and then we have the switchgear in the Civic Center, which is our electrical that is at its life 's end if you will that we need to do a mechanical study on and that's at eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars, so we'll be bonding or going to referendum on and the voters will be able to vote on that in November. Moving along to community services, we have one of our pools, the Calumet pool at two hundred thousand dollars, and that was will come at a referendum bond as well, so that will be decided by the voters. And then development services, we have an ordinance rewrite which is coming out of tiff funding, that's at 125 000, so that's not anything going or going to be voted on. And then the quimby lot road infrastructure is part of the council bond at 600 000. For those of you who don't know, the quimby lot is a portion of land that we own, the city owns, where the fire department is, and there's the Walters lawn, Walters, I forget the name of the business out there, but they own a portion that as well, and that's much more develop a land that we can put eventually on the tax roll someday, and that's to build up the road and the infrastructure to get that ready for some would-be developer someday to put more infrastructure out there. So we're making, i'm suggesting that commitment and you all agreed when we went through the budget process on the council bond. Hartford station needs 250 000 for a roof replacement in the old section. If you remember, we have a new portion of Hartford station, but we still have the old portion, and that's going to come at a Part of the referendum bond as well. City center facilities, we have conference room a and replacement of carpets within this building. That's all coming out of that Available old CIP money so that won't be part of the referendum on Public works and their facilities. We have an 8-bay garage That needs replacing that's at its life 's end and we have that at 1.2 million And that will be part of the referendum decision in November as well. And then moving along to the fire department, we essentially schedule our rescues and phase those in as well. Each or every so often, if you will. And one of the rescues that is up is for vehicle replacement at $320,000. That will be divided. We can use TIF funding for portions of rescues from TIF districts that we have based on the amount that they respond to those areas, so 45,000 will be taken from TIF dollars on that, and then 275,000 will be part of that referendum bond. Public Works has several streets that you'll see, Mount Vernon Road, Spring Road, Church Hill Road rehabilitation, that's the leftover portion between 105 and route 3. We've got Worcester Street, and then our street paving and sidewalk replacement monies there as well. In total with that, the referendum bond will be for the Mount Vernon Road at about 1.3 million, the spring road at nine hundred and fifty thousand, and that portion of the Churchill rehabilitation at one point little over 1.3 million, so that's where The majority of the referendum bond and those roads that we'll be looking to borrow for to do as well. Central garage, so now we're getting into our inner service fund. Central garage is an inner service fund that is Need some heavier equipment. Replacement not part of our borrowing, they sustain themselves through fees they charge the city. So, for example, when Hatch Hill rents a piece of equipment from Central Garage, it pays a fee to use that. And that money is then used to replenish paying for that equipment and staying up on that. So that's essentially we have life cycles of all of our equipment as well that we stay up on. And then finally, Hatch Hill Landfill is an enterprise fund. As we all know, we've entered into an agreement with a group out of Hamden, but we still need to stay up on our infrastructure as well. And you'll see there's several projects there with our design for a, we're still looking at what it would cost for a vertical increase and, you know, bulky waste, separation storage, mobile litter fence, items like that. Again we're on pause with the vertical increase for now, but we're keeping that in the queue if we're ever going to do that. And if you'll see that's not going to the voters and that's not something that's going to be part of the referendum bond, because that would hopefully be funded out of the fund itself through Hatch Hill, but we're still meeting with the state and DEP on that to get a further ruling. So for now we just keep in the queue the list of things that we need and that will be paid out. of their funds and their monies they make out of there. So that's the capital improvement plan for 2027 and the viewers like I said for them to see when they go to the polls so they know exactly what they're voting for. These, this sheet will be at the polls as well for folks to look at that time along with a memo that was produced from our assistant city manager Bill Post. So I think your honor that's it in a nutshell. You know I did have when we, you know, kind of like capping this off to kind of everybody wrap your head around this and the council looked at this part of the and if you were watching during the budget process you know in our next five to ten years we have about 178 million dollars worth of things that we need to stay up on and improve with this plan. Roads, fire vehicles, you know, all kinds of items like that. So that kind of puts it into perspective and again I go back to today's dollars right. That's today in 10 years that's going to be a lot more because that's just the way things are. So but that's how, that's how municipalities do these things. You know I think you know we've, we've talked about do we need a, you know, I finance a financial plan, do we need to go to a financial planner. This is how municipalities financial plan for these types of events and know what's on the horizon. What we try to do is keep that friction zone. We have money each year that's in the budget to pay for principal and interest on our borrowing and what we try to look at is as debt falls off to replace that debt with things consistent and obviously timely if you will to try to minimize the tax increase because if we were to do this all at once like I said you know to finance a million dollar you know a fire truck or you know any of these items you're talking about a significant tax increase if we had to do that out of the general fund in a year but by borrowing you can make those payments and kind of find that threshold and that's that 's a technique that's used in municipal finance to try to keep things up and not fall behind. So I think I'll stop there your honor I think. But the only other thing and I could open it up for questions on this and then and I just want to put a quick information forward on the other borrowing, which will be separate for the school referendum question as well. I'll just give a brief synopsis on that as well. But I think I'll stop with us and we'll go from there. Yep. Yep. [37:15] Eric Lind: Councilor Lynn. Mr. Mayor, so a couple things, Jared. I want to say thank you for the way this is presented. You know, when it started nine years ago, it wasn't as easily understood. So it's easily understood. I just want to provide a little clarity on one column, and that is the column that says operating budget for both Central Garage and Hatch Hill. You kind of explained it, but the people listening, it's not the operating budget that is charged to property tax. Correct. Thank you. Hatch Hill, as an example, tipping fees, it's their budget, their internal budget, not charged as part of our annual. So when people see that, it's really fenced money that's unique to them. [37:54] Jared J. Mills: Yeah, I did use the term operating budget. It's their operating budget, but they're the, they're the, enterprise funds and service. Thank you. The tipping fees ahead shall go into this account. [38:05] Eric Lind: That's what is paying for that, and then I just want to thank public works and everybody from Churchill Road has been, that's an example of a role that should have been taken care of a long time ago. It's probably costing a lot more now, but the section from 105 to Route 3 is heavily traveled and really beat up. We've patched it up over and over again, so thank you. I've had people, several people thanking me and wanting to know when it's going to get done, and then here in city center, this council. Chambers, I just have a couple thoughts or favors. The ceiling, maybe if we could patch that up, it'd be great, and then sounds petty, but that curtain, you know, the mayor sits in front of that curtain, and that reminds me of probably Huzzy School like 1977 or something, so it's a little dusty and dingy, and maybe a better curtain to present our image a little better, just a couple. [39:00] Jared J. Mills: Thoughts, so thank you, Mr. Mayor. We have our director of development services here hearing that live, and he can work on that with his team, and Matt sat here for as probably as long as I have. [39:10] Eric Lind: And looked at the ceiling and the current also, so thank you. On submission, one quick question. [39:16] Speaker I (unidentified): On the civic center, the mechanical study, yes, that is basically going through the building and designing a new electrical system for the whole building. That's not actually implementing any new, that's just designing the new electrical system for that building. 100, yes, that's how expensive things are. But it probably won't be as much to just replace all the electrical. This is the big part, right? No. No, it's not. Thank you. That's, I just wanted clarification on that. Yes. [39:56] Eric Lind: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Jared, again. I also want to back up and say it is so helpful to have seen this in April and now see it again. We made these decisions in large part in April during the budget season, and being reminded of what's coming up on the ballot is really important, especially for the voters. I want to note that many of these things are critically important for us to fund at this point in time. We have talked about the switch gear that Councillor Mishu just brought up again, the entirety that I've been on council, probably long before that, and we are on borrowed time already with that. So moving forward with that is of essence if we want Civic Centre to remain open. And another piece that I wanted to highlight was the replacement of the eight bay garage at Public Works. That is long past its life. And I just wanted to talk about that a little bit in terms of the overall plan for Public Works. We had talked, I believe, back in April that we are able to kind of do this piece knowing that we are looking ahead to redo the entirety of it, but we can kind of take this bite first, correct? [41:15] Jared J. Mills: Yes, that's correct, but Matt, come on up if you'd like, because Matt is in real time, has met with the, not the engineers, but the architects, just had a meeting for the overall plan. Correct. If you'd like to shed some light, please. [41:28] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): Yes. Matt Nazar, Director of Development Services. We have started the project with our architectural and engineering design firm on this particular project. There are a number of different ways that we can potentially go with this project. One is phasing it, as you suggest. The other will likely be discussed will be to see whether or not this is more efficient as a single project and perhaps a single building. All of that still pretty much, we're still very much at the very beginning of the design phase, so it's possible we may be coming back to the City Council at some point in the future once we've gotten through some of that design work with some different recommendations, and it'll be a discussion with the council about exactly how you want to move forward if you want to phase it and spread the cost in a different way, that'll obviously be a choice that you can make. We'll also have potentially other recommendations as we move forward. We're not sure yet, but yes, we are at this point. The 8 Bay Garage is, as you've said, at the end of its useful life. It is a concern, and we are prepared to move forward with it if that's what our architecture and engineering firm recommends we do immediately. [42:44] Eric Lind: Thank you, Matt. That's really helpful to hear that update. date. Is there an overlap of timelines like the bond takes a while to get to us after if it passes through the voters and it sounds like there's a timeline on the architect side? Yes the [43:01] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): timeline that we have right now with our architect and engineering firm is on the design side would be through spring of this coming year, and then it'll be a discussion with the council as to how we move forward. We will already have some of these funds that will be available to us, and it will allow us to start, even if the project ends up being a single project, it'll allow us to start that project and move forward. So we will use that phasing one way or another, whether it's phasing separate buildings or phasing a single building or something along those lines. That makes sense. [43:41] Eric Lind: So no matter what path we choose, taking this on now, we will start the financing of the project and start moving forward. Yep, absolutely. As city manager has said, things are not getting cheaper. So starting to work on those as quickly as possible is really important. We've talked a lot here about how vitally important public works is to our city. And that if that eight-bay garage goes down, so many of our day-to-day activities are impacted, particularly as we all start to feel the chill in the air. Thank you for that. I think my last point, over time, we've kind of tracked particularly the borrowing piece, I think the referendum bond. To my memory, this is fairly in line with the last few years of borrowing. Am I correct in that, City Manager? It's a little bit more. This is one [44:31] Jared J. Mills: of our larger borrowings, but based on what is falling off, it is going to add a little bit extra to our debt service. But looking ahead in the next two years, we have a significant amount falling off. So we feel comfortable from the finance team looking at this, that this is the best course with the projects that we have and the timeliness of them. [44:55] Eric Lind: Yes. Thank you for that. I remember in our large one that there were a few years that were higher and then we could drop back down after kind of making up for the years that we missed. So I am very ready to move forward with this and Well, some people are already seeing it on their ballots And as always if any one listening has questions about these items City managers office council. We are all ready to talk about them. Thank you Thank [45:28] Mark O'Brien: You, mr. Mayor, is that a quick question item 16 the sidewalk replacement zero is that left over from a past table or yes there'd be a number there or yeah what we've done in [45:43] Jared J. Mills: this, and that's a really good observation. What we've done that in this cycle for 2027 is we're actually looking at, and that was from the budget, because if you, if you notice that portion is used through tiff dollars. So when we did our budget, remember we tried to save some money using tiff dollars, and we zeroed out sidewalks this year and combined it with paving. So that's a great observation, and that's why that does. I remember that different than the [46:12] Mark O'Brien: last year. Yeah, understood. Thank you. Yep. So just a couple of quick questions. Was it, was it just last year that we didn't do a bond? No, we did one last year. Did one last year. It was a year that we [46:27] Jared J. Mills: missed one. It was 2025 and 2024. Okay, we went in between the police station, and then [46:36] Mark O'Brien: before that there was some missing as well okay and to reiterate this cip was something that the council's already reviewed and approved and putting out to the voters is there is there a way you said this information is going to be available is there a way to kind of segregate what's going to be part of the referendum bond from the balance of the other five million dollars so that yeah so that 's a good idea right whether it's whether it's a matter of just moving this column all the way over or making the line across yellow or something that, well I know, so that people don't think they're voting on the twelve million dollars worth of things. [47:19] Jared J. Mills: Yeah, I think the real quick is I just take everything out except for the referendum items, and then they'll see in the spreadsheet what that is. Yeah, leave it to [47:32] Mark O'Brien: your judgment, but why didn't I think of that? I'm sure you did. No, I didn't. So I think it goes without saying the council supports this question in front of the voters in November, and we certainly hope that the voters will agree and support this referendum bond referendum. When you're done writing, we'll talk about the school department. [47:58] Jared J. Mills: All right, in the school department, you have in your packets, unfortunately I don't have this up, but they certainly have it advertised on their social media, we've shared it, and they put information out on their website as well. But as you know, there'll be a separate referendum question with the work that's been done. Matt sat on the committee, the mayor was at the committee. Just really quick, the city of Augusta was up, is up for a new school. A population of students is dwindling. We thought we were going to have a replacement school at Hussie, and we're finding across the country and in Maine that the student population is lowering, so it's not building new standalone buildings but adding on. And that's what was decided in Augusta. The best way to move forward was rather than build a new Hussey School, would be to add on to Farrington. They've done a bunch of work on that, looking at adding an additional 32,750 square feet on to the Farrington School. And that cost is going to be $53,571,590. But the important thing to note with this is, and the mayor said it well at the MMA convention, this may very well be the last school that's entirely funded by the state moving forward. So this, the way that process works is the municipality has to borrow the money. We have to bond for it. But the principal and interest payment like I talked about in ours that we would have to pay for, the state actually pays for that for this school expansion. So essentially this borrowing doesn't come at a cost to the local taxpayers, that's paid for through the state. So you'll see that and there's is again a handout and there's some really good explanation that I won't go into detail on. But the highlights I wanted to hit was that is a large borrowing at 53 million, but keep in mind when you're making that decision that it's actually not coming out of the general fund or the local tax base. That's what I have for that, thank you. [50:17] Mark O'Brien: Councillor Judkins. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Two things, first off, when you explained that, when you said decision was made here in Augusta, it's not, wasn't made by the city council, correct? It's made by the state department of education. They have to be in favor of the plan that they're presented and select, and if they find it in their good grace, then they will fund it. This they have approved to do, and I do, I and I just would reiterate again, it'll be confusing, you will see a big number on there to vote on. so yes we're getting a loan but the state of maine is going to cover all of our costs and pay all of the payments on that loan so that's the just the cleanest easiest way to do it so don't be you know quite overly concerned with the number so and with that being said i have a prior equipment i cannot appointment i can't listen to the data i read the material i will watch the tape later this evening but i would beg your indulgence and apologize to all those folks from ward two but i'll be back at it next week thanks good night is there any other counselor senkowitz thank you mr mayor i wanted [51:28] Eric Lind: I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT ONE THING. COUNCILOR JUDKIN SAID IT SO WELL THAT WE ARE ESSENTIALLY AS A MUNICIPALITY NOT PAYING FOR THIS EXPANSION. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS, I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SIT IN ON MULTIPLE OF THESE MEETINGS. I AM SO IMPRESSED WITH THE WAY THAT THIS PLAN HAS BEEN DEVELOPED. ONE THING THAT I DID NOT REALIZE UNTIL THE END IS THAT THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE FIRST FLOOR OF FARRINGTON WILL ALLOW MORE COMMUNITY USE OF THAT SCHOOL because it's designed to have a full cutoff from the classroom component so the cafeteria the gymnasium those kinds of areas are being intentionally designed for both the student and the community use to be enhanced so while individuals who don't have children in school anymore may think this doesn't impact you one i think all of us are impacted by the children in our schools at any point in time in our community but two this likely will if you are on the east side of the river if you ever end up at farrington for a community event this is going to be how this is designed so that this can be utilized for more and more community events so another reason to vote affirmatively on this when you see it on your ballot thank you thank you counselor lind so huzzy school the use of huzzy school was starting to be a little bit of buzz not a lot of anxiety yet but people are concerned so i think it's when this passes hopefully it will pass i'm pretty sure it will i think we need to start the discussion the new ward 4 council is going to have to leave that effort but i just want to pass on i now i haven't had any emails or direct phone calls yet but as i move around the community people are kind of like you know what's Going on what's going to happen and trying to squash rumors of a new Walmart going in, but all seriousness, people are just wondering what's going to happen with that. You know, if you've been to Aussie School, it's tight in the neighborhood. I mean, literally it is a neighborhood school. It's in several backyards or about that. So I just think whatever we do, we need to be careful and make sure whatever the use is that it fits in that tight area right near, right near a very active playground too. So the To that point, to the projected [53:49] Mark O'Brien: completion date is the summer of 2030, so we have a little bit of time, a bit of time to evaluate what happens at, what happens to and how's he and how's he, Mr. Manager. Yeah, no, and [54:01] Jared J. Mills: I would just say I don't have a crystal ball, but we have had this similar situations with schools, the old Hodgkin School, our Buecher Center, usually those are repurposed in such a way. I know that there's a process Matt's aware of that involves school input, but at the end of the day, zoning is going to control a lot of that as well. But yeah, it'll be interesting what it does eventually come to, but I know I can set people's mind at ease that it would be something within the landscape of what's already there. I think it just starts to roll more and [54:39] Eric Lind: more you're going to get more of an anxiety from the people in an area wondering, so it's nothing right now huge, but just starting a little chatter. So a couple three points I just want to [54:50] Mark O'Brien: add on to the discussion here. People keep in mind, one is that besides the addition to accommodate the former Hussey School students, there's going to be renovation to the existing Farrington school building that was built in 1988. So at the same time that the additions being done, there's going to be renovations to bring that building up to speed and up to code, so forth. So there'll be renovations there. The second point I wanted to make is that Farrington school is going to stay open should this go forward. Farrington school would stay open and operate during the construction phases, and you know that'll be the students will be accounted COUNTED FOR AND THERE WILL BE AS MINIMAL DISRUPTION AS THERE COULD BE. AND FINALLY, THE DATES, THE SIGNIFICANT DATES, CONSTRUCTION WOULD BE EXPECTED TO START IN THE SUMMER OF 2028 AND FINISH IN THE SUMMER OF 2030. IF THAT IMPACTS YOUR DECISION MAKING AT ALL. ALL RIGHT. EXCELLENT. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT? all right let's move to item c3 the data centers so you have to be living in a closet to not know that this is a topic of discussion throughout the state of Maine and throughout the country about what to do with these how to respond to the need for data centers around the country and there's there's been a lot of activity in the state of maine there was a there was a proposal in the main legislature to ban them essentially the state of maine that got they got vetoed and individual municipalities around the state have been, you know, considering their own moratoriums and licensing standards and so forth. Some have instituted moratoriums, some have not, and some have taken a wait and see attitude. Kind of felt it was timely ward to get a sense of the council here about what they think about data centers and what they think the city's response or action should be, if anything. Staff had done a lot of legwork in preparation for whenever we were going to bring this forward. Thought it was a good time to do so, and that's the reason that it's here, just kind of get a sense of what the council may be thinking and what we know and what we still need to learn. So with that, we have Matt Nazar, and he's prepared, or he and his staff have prepared a memo for our consideration, which we all had a chance to review ahead of time, but we'll go into a little more thoroughly at this point. [57:45] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): Sure. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Manager, Counselors, Matt Nazar, Director of Development Services. As the mayor has said, our staff, my staff, Keith Luke actually have prepared a data center memo for you that was done in consultation with the rest of the staff within the, within the department, the planning staff as well as code enforcement staff, to determine what our current stance is in our, in from an ordinance perspective, how we would treat one of those today if we were to get a request for one, and to provide some feedback for the council on what the concerns might be at a local level versus what might be the concerns that would be addressed at a different, at a different location or a different, a different level of government perhaps. So first of all, what a data center is. Data centers have been around for probably 40 or 50 years at this point. Anybody who stores anything in the cloud, that's a data center, that's where that's stored, it's stored at a data center. It's been in the news a lot recently because there has been a great deal of construction of new data centers as a result of the AI boom. So that's been driving a lot of the conversation is the fact that data centers have been proliferating and the potential impacts of those have become more broadly felt across the country. But a data center, what is a data center, first of all? It can be anything from something that's a cabinet sized to tractor trailer sized to something that would be considered a hyperscale Center. There's one that's proposed in northern Utah that is larger than Manhattan. So there's, there's scale is an important part of the discussion when you're talking about data centers. Here in the city of Augusta we've had a couple of inquiries, nothing terribly serious at this point. We had one last year that was for something of on a larger size warehouse size type data center and we've also had an inquiry from another company about the smaller tractor trailer truck size data center, which are those are essentially self-contained units that obviously draw off the power grid but from a cooling and heat perspective and otherwise they are self-contained. They can be stacked together so that you have multiple of those individual data centers essentially tied together in a series, but that makes them scalable and attractive to some of the companies out there in order to be able to tap into areas where they've already got existing capacity. Tesla is one that was mentioned in the memo. They have something called a mega pod that they've started putting out in the last six months and they're tapping into some of their existing Tesla charging facilities and installing them at underutilized Tesla charging facilities or outdated Tesla charging facilities where they may have one that's another one that's close by and one that's no longer heavily used. In Augusta, in Maine, the bill that was in the legislature was specific on size and regulated by how much power the data center would draw. So that was how the state was thinking about slicing the issue was based on size for electrical use. So anything that was over 20 megawatts was going to be regulated and the under 20 megawatts was not in the same way. Our ordinance today in code enforcement and planning's opinion in doing a detailed review of how we might fit that into this current ordinance is that we do not have a land use and would not allow a data center if it came in today and asked us for a location here in the city of Augusta. So from there's there's nothing there's no land use that it sort of fits. We obviously don't have a definition for data center specifically, and none of our existing land use definitions would have this type of use fit neatly into it in some way. So that's typically how our land use ordinance operates. It's a permissive land use ordinance, so the use has to be listed in order to be allowed, or it has to fit into the definition of one of the uses that is listed. And so all the definitions outlined we couldn't find anything where this would fit into our current ordinance. So from that perspective, the city has some breathing room without having to necessarily do a moratorium. If someone were to come to us today, we'd likely issue a decision that it wasn't allowed. They could potentially appeal that, but the courts are usually pretty friendly to communities with respect to interpreting their own ordinance. So it'd be unlikely one that a data center might do that. Rather than trying to argue with one municipality, they simply go find another municipality that will say yes. And so that's where we stand in the city of Augusta. The case four, as Keith has outlined in the memo, is that it is capital investment and does bring in some tax base. The one that was proposed in J that fell through and didn't end up happening was a $550 million hyperscale size facility on the old international paper site, which is about 1,000 acres. It was intended to house multiple data centers or multiple users and was anticipated to bring in about six million dollars a year in taxes to the town of J. I could say it didn't happen, but that is one of the potential cases in favor of this type of use. It does have some jobs that it creates. There's usually a relatively small amount of jobs compared to a similar sized facility. There's the construction of course that it does create jobs as part of the construction process, and sometimes there's Infrastructure investment in order for the particular use to operate long-term, electrical upgrades, fiber and other upgrades in a community. Augusta is actually pretty well, pretty well seated for those types of uses, particularly with the fiber connection that goes through the city of Augusta. We have substantial capacity there. Our electrical capacity is good. CMP would obviously have to be involved in weather and depending on the size of the use of as to whether or not it was gonna happen. The local impacts that are important to consider and the most significant one that we've come across is noise. There's a couple of different ways data centers create noise. The HVAC units create some noise to keep the facility cool. Obviously there are generators that operate in order to keep these things running. So the generators operate, they exercise your generator just as you would for any community for any particular facility, but because of the size and scale of these uses the number of generators and the size of generators is substantial if you're going with a large facility, and so that can create a substantial amount of noise and the ongoing complaint that we've seen across the country is that because of the electrical usage at a site there's a pretty significant and consistent low level hum that is created by these particular uses. It's a low-frequency noise, and it's something that is tough to tune out. So if it's unlike, say, background traffic noise or some other background noise that you will typically get out in the environment that your brain is pretty good at tuning out, these low-level frequency hums can be difficult to tune out and can be bothersome for individuals. So that's a concern. Water, electrical. Those would obviously be things, depending on the size of the particular facility, that we'd have to have conversations with either the utility district or CMP about if somebody wanted to locate. The rate payer issue, one of the bigger concerns that has been expressed across the country and that you've probably heard about is the impact on electrical usage within a large electrical distribution area. There is obviously significant concern that having a lot of these within the same electrical grid can have a significant impact on rate payers within that area. That's not a concern obviously that you can address at the local level, but it's something for you to be aware of. And then there are a couple of studies, there were a couple of bills as the mayor mentioned, that one that did pass and one that did not pass. there was also a study council and advisory council main data center advisory council that was established this last spring and is due to provide a report back to the governor and legislature up by january 29th 2027 there are municipalities have enacted moratoriums i like i said i'm not sure that 's necessary here in augusto where we don't believe one could be allowed today anyway but that's sort of the long and short of it for the council unless you have questions for me [1:07:33] Eric Lind: Council Lind, thank you Mr. Mayor. So a couple things, Matt, I've got a lot to unpack, so bear with me. What jumped out at me in the memo was local action and what really struck me was Cassette turning this down. Now this is a community that had Main Yankee in their backyard with a lot of water consumption and they relied on the taxes for Main Yankee for a long time, at the finest schools in the state of Maine. So I'd like to know what it's same with Lewiston, I mean Lewiston needs revenue, you know. Without a doubt, so I kind of like to know why they, what the public opposition was and what happened there, so that we could, you know, because this does present a significant opportunity for tax revenue, it really does. I'd like to know what particularly was Cassidy, I was surprised that they rejected this after again a community that had a large nuclear plant. The moratorium, you know, when you say it's not allowed, some of these companies have a lot of money and they probably have a very large legal staff and they could take us to court and you know I'd almost be in favor of a moratorium simply to insulate us from the potential of incurring at least paying Cam to write one letter. I mean the paper that the moratorium is on is pennies compared to paying our lawyer hundreds of dollars an hour, so I'd like to just find out if that would insulate us from potential court just in case, just as an insurance to save money there. You know I'm concerned about, I've heard from people about the noise, the Water consumption is huge on the hyper centers. That is a concern, and I kind of, I read through this and I kept having, you know, a little deja vu with solar panels. You know, we, you can draw an analogy between the two things coming in quickly, and I was kind of jumping, and I think taking our time, and that's why I'm looking at these communities that put moratoriums in and ones that where it was rejected. I think if we, I found this community to be very amenable as long as we can have public process and work through it together we might be able to get to a point where we don't pass up an opportunity and it may be these industries might see that we're doing the right thing so i'd like i kind of like to learn more i 'm in favor of moratorium simply to insulate us from any potential court some really decent communities have done the moratorium and i'd like to know kind of what happened in wisconsin and lewiston particularly wisconsin that was the one that kind of shocked me a little bit [1:10:01] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): but I could certainly get more information on those two and get a better understanding of what happened in those communities and the, to be clear, to be, to add to the moratorium comment, if the community and it's all comes out of what I guess what the council ends up wanting to do this evening, excuse me, if the community does decide to pass a moratorium, that implies that you are going to obviously move forward with some sort of study and some sort of recommendation. That's what moratoriums are enacted for. It's enacted for the community to actually take that breather time to actually enact something. So if you feel that you are going to enact some sort of regulation to either permit it or not permit it or do some study as to how you'd like to move forward, a moratorium implies that you are taking some level of action during that [1:10:55] Eric Lind: moratorium period. And action could simply be education, would it not? [1:10:59] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): I'd have to, I'd want to talk to Cam as to whether or not it would just be if it could just be education, but it usually implies you're going to regulate in some way, learning potential [1:11:10] Eric Lind: impact I think would be how I'd see it anyways, counselor. Sinkowitz, thank you Mr. Mayor, thank you Matt and thank Keith as well for this memo and the background information. Pulling this together in one place was really useful. One of the questions I had is, do you have a sense the main data center advisory council, are they likely to come with information that is useful for municipalities in January, or is that more the rate payer legislative end? I suspect they're [1:11:49] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): going to make recommendations for the state level management of this particular use, and that would be partially a rate payer question, but it could be, it could be a larger moratorium that gets recommended as the one that got vetoed. It could recommend doing that again and having additional legislative recommendations on how to move these things forward. [1:12:17] Eric Lind: One of my thoughts is the options for council that are listed here. I think it is a good idea to move forward in figuring out our stance here in defining, getting input from our community and figuring out where we want to go. But I'm also hesitant to go too far down that road if we're likely to get a lot of suggestions in January from this council that would then [1:12:42] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): require us to go back and do some more work. I can get more detail on exactly what the charge is to the study committee. I don't have that directly in front of me. Like I said, my expectation, because it's a state-level advisory committee, is that it's going to be providing state-level recommendations rather than municipal-level recommendations. That makes sense. [1:13:03] Eric Lind: The other component to that, I'm assuming that there is a correlation between the size in terms of megawatts and the noise, that it's not a zero, like there are zeros out, but that there is a correlation. [1:13:19] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): Yes. And I'm not sure that it's necessarily a linear correlation. It may be something more logarithmic. I'm not a hundred percent sure, but yes, there would be a correlation. Certainly the smaller, the smaller, the use it is, the less likely it's going to create substantial noise. [1:13:35] Eric Lind: Okay. I think that there is something to be found here where, to a certain extent data center has become this phrase that elicits a lot of emotion, but you know I've seen our city center data center downstairs off of the what is it the learning gallery there, a little closet full of things, and it is quite noisy when you're in that room, but there some of these things exist around us already and there is not necessarily, there's not nothing to be worried. And there's not everything to be worried about. But finding this middle ground, I think, is something that we're capable of doing. I am pretty fiercely protective of our water system here, given the amount that God has done to provide us with very clean, very abundant water sources for our residents. But that they are, that is not a never-ending supply, and that there is a lot of capital investment that has gone into that in the last few years to make sure that stays that way for our residents. And what you highlighted about the Kennebec lock site in particular, where funneling noise down the river straight to downtown would definitely be a concern, I, that hum that you talk about, we use things like that for psychological torture, so we don't want that in our downtown. I think that there's a lot here to move forward. I would be in support of Counselor Lynn's suggestion of a moratorium in terms of communication and clarity, and I am also in favor of during that time doing the work to figure out what level of data center Augusta would welcome, if any, and what level we cannot. I think as a population center, we have certain restrictions that some other municipalities do not, given the amount of people that live here. And quality of life is a hugely important piece for our population. But we do also have quite a lot of land mass in the outskirts of our municipality, so I don't feel like we are completely boxed in, but that there are restrictions depending on zone that might be enacted. Thank you. [1:16:06] Speaker J (unidentified): That's Rosted. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and I will, you know, also comment on the great work done here, Matt, really good explanation and synopsis of current situation and options going forward. [1:16:20] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): So much appreciated. I thank Keith and my staff for assisting, a big assist on that, nice job. [1:16:26] Speaker J (unidentified): Very readable and understandable. Just want a little bit more information on the idea of a moratorium. Earlier you had mentioned that there wouldn't really be a need for a moratorium because of, it was, it's not currently a permitted use, so just wondered if you could expand. [1:16:44] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): On that, sure. I would certainly want the council to get the advice of Corporation Council on this, but my, typically the sense of a moratorium, the reason for a moratorium is to prevent something from happening so that a municipality can spend the time necessary to create regulations to regulate whatever it is that could potentially happen. In this particular case, it was my thought process that because this use is something that is not currently allowed and if we had one come in would be denied, that A necessary moratorium was not particularly necessary, but I would absolutely recommend you get the advice of Corporation Council as to whether or not that's the right approach or not. [1:17:35] Speaker J (unidentified): Okay, thank you. I just wanted to make sure I heard that correctly. So whether or not we decide to do a moratorium moving forward after we get said advice and follow-up, I do agree that we should follow up on some of these items, even if it is to just learn more about them. The first three seem to be very pertinent and timely, and I would like to see those at least be reviewed on an upcoming agenda to check in and see where we are, regardless of whether we pass a moratorium or not. [1:18:09] Mark O'Brien: Counselor Lily, thank you. Mr. Mayor, I think this is important conversation that we're having with the data center, so we'll say that the way that I see it is that these are going to, whether they come to Maine or whether they come to Augusta, we're going to see more and more of these. Has we just consume more information and that gets stored somewhere, we don't delete things like we used to, so it has to be stored somewhere. I 'm not totally scared of the idea of data centers, but they have a time and a place of where they need to be I do think that I would suggest that we just wait until the state decides what they're gonna do let them put the effort and time into it doesn't sound like there's a need at the moment for us to put a pause on anything. Nothing's coming forward, and even if it does, it sounds as if it wouldn't be approved anyway at this point. So I say we wait, and at least my opinion would be to just wait to see what the state comes out with their advisory group and get an idea of where the state stands before we as a city try to tackle this very difficult situation. [1:19:25] Speaker I (unidentified): Do you want to weigh in? Yeah, every time we've had a moratorium brought forth to us, it's reacting to a situation that's been put forth to us. So I would certainly like to see and gather as much information as we can, and I don't think a moratorium on this, that there's just been a couple of folks inquiring about it, but I think that we all need to be educated on this and what the impact would be, both from a tax base and also from consumption. So I just think that for once we're getting ahead of something instead of reacting to a situation that's been brought forth to us. So, again, I think as much of an education as we can get and perhaps put forth some type of legislation locally, I guess we're not in a time crunch, so if the state comes up with policy, we can do that. But I really think that we should continue to look more into this and to see what impact, however small or however large this potential facility would be, how would it impact? Because, you know, I think a lot of the stuff that we've seen in the media has not been positive. So I would like to know as much as I can before we react to anything. But I think it's great that we're putting forth this before something happens. [1:21:27] Mark O'Brien: So can I ask you, Counsel, do you feel that it would be better to do that under the cover of a moratorium or just work on it as we are? [1:21:38] Speaker I (unidentified): I just personally think working on it going forward, because a moratorium is a limited amount of time to do something. And I mean you can extend them, but I think this work, I personally think this work can be done without the cover of the moratorium currently. All [1:22:06] Eric Lind: right, thank you for clarifying that for me, counseling. I just want to clarify my desire for moratorium. So Matt, right now it's your opinion that this is not a permitted use, correct? So a corporation comes in, Microsoft, we want to build a huge hype hyper moratorium, we bought big track of land, and you say not a permitted use, next step would be court, correct? Now if we had a moratorium, the answer would be sorry, we have a moratorium right now, not court, yes. So that's why I'm saying I think the safer approach should be to put a moratorium and prevent any company from coming in, say we really want to go come here, the first step if [1:22:51] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): after code enforcement decision, the first step would be board of zoning appeals and then court and then court, yeah, right, if they didn't get the answer they wanted at the board of zoning [1:22:58] Eric Lind: appeals. So on my fiscal scale I'm saying moratorium low cost, court high cost. Do the moratorium, like six, I think seven other communities have, give us a little bit of a insurance against any muscle from a large company with a lot of money that wants to roll in. I mean we saw how the solar farms came in different ways. These are smart companies and they've got a lot of money and they've got a lot of attorneys, and I just think we're a small community and I just don't want to be taken advantage of and I think if we put a moratorium, it gives us a little insurance and a little breather, so that's where I'm coming from. So thank you, Mr. Manager. Yeah, I think your [1:23:36] Jared J. Mills: honor, I would just say that perhaps we can get that clear. If Cam was here, he'd be able to tell us. So I think we can get that information, his opinion, to you sooner rather than later, and then we could get it on an agenda if somebody wanted it from them. Yeah, I so I think hold on [1:23:56] Mark O'Brien: So I, you know, I think there are a variety of opinions about whether or not we ought to do it, and we've got three opinions that we don't know because of the absence here tonight. So it's not, so given the way the discussion has gone so far, I don't think it's a decision that we make just yet. So with, but as takeaways, Matt, you suggested some of this stuff could be done with or without moratorium, and you've heard some specific points of inquiry from council members. I don't know how much direction that you need, but I think some of these steps that have been suggested should be undertaken, and would, and we could bring some of that work back at the same time we have more full council to revisit this. Yeah, it's certainly been clear to me that the [1:24:44] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): council wants more information, and we can work on that immediately. We can start working on that, so that doesn't require a moratorium for us to start working on that. So I see Mr. Hill [1:24:55] Mark O'Brien: in the back. Normally we take the public comment during the public comment portion, but I know you've, you've, yeah, I but you hear, I know you've emailed about this topic as well, we have a little bit of time. I'll exercise my discretion and invite you to come forward. [1:25:13] Public commenter (east side resident): I live on the east side of town. [1:25:16] Mark O'Brien: Right into the mic, please. [1:25:18] Public commenter (east side resident): I used to work at data centers for many years. I'm just going to give you my opinion. Yes, data centers have all – your memo was great. I thought it was very well done, put together pretty well. Well, I'm against a moratorium. I think, as has been suggested, there are some activities, you know, working towards an ordinance that allows data centers, you know, as a permissible use. Makes sense to me. But, you know, Augusta's got to be open for business. You know, you can't live your tax base on Popeyes and other things that you're bringing into this town. You've got to expand, and a data center will come in and spend some money. Now, I don't know where to put it, whether down in the locks is the right place because it echoes down through the river, right? But, you know, data centers really don't have a water problem depending upon how they're built, right? So there's a closed-loop data center, doesn't use water, right? Doesn't use water. So the water issue goes away. Noise, yes, it's an issue. Power, it's an issue. But I think that Augusta, unlike Bangor and Gorham and all these other towns, says, hey, you know, we want to talk. We want to negotiate with a data center company. We'll tailor an ordinance that kind of works for our town and for what's good for the company, you know, and do it in a proactive way. I think makes a lot more sense than saying hey, we're closed for business for the next Two years because we got to figure out what we're doing. You know, I just see that as Creating barriers. [1:27:12] Mark O'Brien: Are there any questions from mr. Hill? All right. All right. Thanks. Thanks So If and when and as we move forward on this and we start talking about land use ordinance considerations and so forth do you foresee a significant role for the [1:27:33] Matt Nazar (Director of Development Services): Planning Board for example yes I mean ultimately the land use land use conversations typically involve the Planning Board and these conversations would typically happen at the Planning Board level at a minimum the Planning Board there has to be a process where the Planning Board holds a public hearing and makes a recommendation back to City Council if the council decided to create and the council has done this in the past for other uses create a subcommittee a separate subcommittee to talk about a particular land use it can be done outside the planning board process usually involves a planning board member or two on that subcommittee but eventually the planning board at least holds a public hearing and makes a recommendation back to the City Council [1:28:19] Mark O'Brien: okay something to think about we satisfied with the discussion here tonight and got some marching orders absolutely thank you i will definitely bring this back at another appropriate meeting when we have more to share and we have more voices to hear from before we break let me ask if there are any anything else anybody wants to raise any announcements council sinkowitz thank you mr mayor i think i'm [1:28:50] Eric Lind: Skipping city manager here, city offices, including Lithgow, Hatch Hill, everything closed Monday for Indigenous Peoples Day. I hope everyone enjoys their holiday. Before that, on Saturday, the library is hosting their fall puzzle contest. There are still four seats available, which is, I think, two teams. And it's teams of two. You try to finish a puzzle as fast as you can together and it starts at 9 15 but it does require registration so if you go to the library's calendar there's a registration button there I would love to be there but I will be at Cara Fields for youth soccer hopefully a little warmer than a couple of the days this week. The other thing that I wanted to note was the library has announced their Halloween like costume parade, extravaganza for children, and I am now losing the date. I thought it was the 24th, but that can't be right. It is in the 20s. There it is, 27th, 3 p.m., 3 to 4, 30 p.m. Kids, teens, tweens, and their grown-ups are invited to the library. There'll be a lot of different events, but my highlight is always the costume parade throughout the library. It's really great. So 3 p.m. Lithgow on the 27th, which is a Tuesday. Thank you. Thank you So [1:30:22] Mark O'Brien: Just to note Coney football team is playing tonight as we speak if you were thinking about you're going to their Friday night game You're gonna miss it so there's still some game left to play if you want to go up to the field and watch it after we're done here we appreciate you watching us tonight though at the same time there's nothing else we're adjourned for tonight see you next week