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Westbrook council: PFAS tests clear three athletic fields

2026-10-05 · 1h 12m · Source: 10/5/26 City Council (City of Westbrook (Vimeo))
Speakers labeled via automated voice-based diarization + AI name-matching against the city's official roster. Automated transcription can still mis-hear a name during fast speech (e.g. a rapid roll-call vote) -- clear near-misses are auto-corrected, but this is not manually verified line-by-line. Treat names as a strong best guess, not an official record.
[0:15] Mayor (presiding officer): I call to order the regular city council meeting for Monday, October 5th, 2026. And I just want to let everyone know that immediately following this meeting at approximately 7 p.m. will be a committee at the whole meeting, but that will be following this meeting. And one other reminder for the council and the community today is just to remind everyone of our expectations for when we're speaking up here, we can raise our hands and wait our turn when we're called on for anyone in the public to come up to the podium and keep your comments to the merits of the issue and not to any individual personal comments and to not interrupt others while they are speaking. Let acknowledgement please. [1:04] Mayor Morris: The Westbrook City Council understands, honors, and acknowledges that the city of Westbrook is located on the traditional and unceded homelands and waters of the indigenous people of the Presumpscot River. We recognize that the Wabanaki people have been displaced by the advancement of colonization, yet have belonged to this land for countless generations and thousands of years, and their presence continues in Maine to this day. Roll call, please. Councillor McCambridge? Here. Vice President Shaughnessy? Here. Councillor Chao? Here. Councillor Falkingham, I believe, is on Zoom? Here. Councillor Turcotte is absent. Councillor Reardon? Here. [1:40] Mayor (presiding officer): And President Monroe? Here. Please join me in standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. To [1:48] Councillor: the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [2:01] Mayor (presiding officer): There are no minutes to approve, so on to the mayor's message. [2:05] Mayor Morris: Thank you. Before our next council meeting, we are going to be observing Indigenous Peoples Day on Monday, October 12th. And I just want to take a moment tonight to recognize its importance, particularly here in Westbrook, where our community history is inseparable from the Presumpt Scott River and the indigenous people who have called this place home for thousands of years. The land acknowledgement statement that is read at our council meetings recognizes that every time we meet, we're gathering on their traditional and unceded homelands and acknowledges their displacement of the Wabanaki people through colonization. This upcoming observance on the 12th is an opportunity to pause and give those words the thought that they deserve. We hear them every day, and it can become, for those of us who are coming to these meetings, sound repetitive. But we should take a moment to think about why we, why we hear that and what it means. I think that Indigenous Peoples Day invites us to learn more about that history, to be honest about the injustices that it includes, and to celebrate the cultures and resilience and contributions of Indigenous peoples today. Day. Wabanaki communities are a living and essential part of Maine, with voices and perspectives that deserve our attention and respect. I encourage residents to use this occasion to learn from Indigenous writers, artists, and community members and deepen their understanding of the land and waters that we share. As a city, we honor the meaning of our acknowledgement by carrying that willingness to listen, learn, and act with respect into our work throughout the year. And if nobody's ever been, there's a memorial to Chief Poland on Conan Street, which I always find that particular day to be a good opportunity to go by and read the informational plaques that are there about the history of that land, particularly where it's situated on a hill looking over the river with a very similar vista that has been there for thousands of years. So I encourage you to check that out if you've never seen it. I'm going to move down to the podium now to do a proclamation for Domestic Violence Awareness Month. And I believe we have someone from Through These Doors here who's going to join me. We have Abby here who's going to say a few words after I read the proclamation. Whereas we have citizens and neighbors who have survived domestic violence, who are still experiencing abuse, and who have lost their lives to this critical community issue. And whereas Through These Doors and other partner organizations serve thousands of individual survivors of abuse, trafficking, and exploitation across Maine each year, including many right here in Westbrook and surrounding communities, and whereas the effects of domestic violence are far-reaching, directly affecting individual survivors as well as our community at large, and whereas we remind domestic violence survivors that they are not alone and urge them to seek aid from services such as the statewide helpline at 1-866-834-HELP. Now, therefore, I, David Morris, Mayor of the City of Westbrook, Maine, do hereby recognize the month of October, 2026, as Domestic Violence Awareness Month in our City of Westbrook, and thank you for the work that you do, Abby, and through these doors, and thank you for coming here today. Hello, [6:00] Domestic violence awareness presenter: And thank you so much for the leadership from the City of Westbrook for recognizing and honoring Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Survivors of domestic violence are everywhere. Everyone knows someone who's experienced domestic violence at least once in their life. They are our friends, they are our neighbors, they are our loved ones, and our helpline answers phone calls 24 hours a day, seven days a week, every day of the year. I'm so sorry I just spaced out a little bit. As I was saying, through these doors we operate a 24-hour helpline. We have an emergency shelter. We are partnered with every single law enforcement office in Cumberland County, and we provide holistic wraparound supports to survivors of domestic violence. Thank you so much again for your support. And we have an array of events and activities happening throughout the month of October. I encourage everyone to check out our website or Instagram for more information there. Thank you so much. [7:17] Mayor Morris: Thank you. Thank you. I think spacing out is the hallmark of a thoughtful person. I like to say whenever I can't remember what to say, but the work you do in this community is indispensable, and you do it on extremely limited to limited resources, and thank you very much. Finally, we are going to have a presentation for the public and the council regarding PFAS on some of our recreational sites. City Project Manager Robin Saunders will introduce us, and I believe there are some other supporting Thank you, [8:05] Environmental consultant (PFAS presenter): Mayor, for the opportunity to update you, the council staff, and the public on the efforts made over the past 18 months to understand the potential for presence of PFAS at the three athletic fields shown here. I'm going to hand out some handouts for council. And why don't I just have the team come up and introduce themselves. [8:30] Rip Patton, environmental engineer, Criteria Associates: Hi, my name is Rip Patton. I'm an environmental engineer with Crideria Associates. So, we're right on downtown Westbrook, and we do environmental consulting work. [8:41] Allison Druin, project manager, Criteria Associates: I'm Allison Druin, also with Criteria Associates, and I was the project manager to oversee the work that we're going to share with you tonight. [8:53] Mayor (presiding officer): Hi, everybody. My name is Nhi Lob. I work with the University of Connecticut's Technical Assistance to Brownfields, and that is funded through the Environmental Protection Agency. We provide technical assistance free to communities and municipalities. municipalities, and we've supported Westbrook for quite some time now, and we're happy to continue the support. So I'm just here representing, and feel free to ask me any questions if you have any. [9:17] Dave Van Slyke, senior counsel, Preti Flaherty: My name is Dave Van Slyke. I'm senior counsel at the Pretty Flaherty Law Firm. Prior to joining Pretty Flaherty, I was with the United States Environmental Protection Agency for about a decade. My last job there was as director of the Superfund Enforcement Program for the entire United States. I've been involved with PFAS for about a decade, which is about when PFAS became a name or an acronym that people started paying attention to. I have represented farmers whose fields, livestock, residential well water have been impaired due to the spreading of contaminated sewage sludge. I've represented municipalities and wastewater treatment plants that have run into PFAS contaminated groundwater and water supply wells. I've also represented manufacturers and commercial property owners that have unwittingly used raw materials that actually contained PFAS compounds. Robin asked me to start this discussion with you tonight and with the public with a fairly high level summary. Let me just start with the bottom line after a very well thought-out investigation initiated after learning that the main DEP had identified three fields in the city of Westbrook where sludge and ash may have been spread the news after that a thorough investigation is good let me say that again. The news is good after this very thorough investigation. Following the investigation of those three city-owned fields where the Maine DEP had identified possible application of sludge, the results have indicated that it's safe to use those fields for recreational use. The levels of PFAS compounds found are incredibly low, well below, well below DEP guidelines for action and consistent with background levels of PFAS that are found in background in both urban and rural environments. The investigation taken by the Cradere folks that you see behind me, and by the way, Cradere is a very good consulting firm with an excellent reputation in all sorts of environmental matters, but the investigation that was undertaken by Cradere on behalf of the city was approved by Maine DEP as well as the United States Environmental Protection Agency, and it was very thorough. We will talk a little bit more about exactly what that investigation consisted of. But I will have to say I've been impressed with the diligence that the city approached this whole situation with and the care with which it was approached by City Management, Angela, Jenny, Robin, and the team that Robin has assembled. And you should, you as counselor should have every bit of confidence the results of that effort and the conclusions that were reached by the city's qualified environmental professionals as well as by the main DEP. So I will turn this back over to Robin. She will get go through a slide deck that's going to have a fairly detailed presentation about what it was that grid air did and the conclusions that all the environmental professionals have reached on this. [12:49] Environmental consultant (PFAS presenter): So, what you have in front of you are slides, the exact same slides that are showing up here today. If you take the clip off, you'll also see that you have a letter from the Maine Department of Environmental Protection, because I actually asked Maine DEP to be here, and in their absence, when they couldn't be here, I asked them to just write a written statement to say, no, you guys are good. You don't need us. So if you look at the back page, the last paragraph says it all based on our review of the data. The fields may continue to be used as recreational and athletic fields, and they pose a minimal risk. As such, the other things that you see are with the paper clips is a website that the, that Monique the economic and community development department and I have been working on rolling out. These will roll out tomorrow, so the first page is a landing page, and then there's a frequently asked questions document that have been reviewed by Cradery and David Van Slyke and the UConn team. All of us have worked really diligently to make sure that we get the information out to the public on this, you know. Because at first we weren't sure how the results would come in, but you know, don't bury the lead, it's all good news, right? And so last but not least, in your packet you'll see a press release that's coming out tomorrow to let folks know that the testing has occurred and that we're in good shape. So most of the folks on this slide are here tonight, except for, as I mentioned, the Maine Department of Environmental Protection and the Greater Portland Council of Governments. And we really have to give a special thank you to GPCOG. Without their funding, this project wouldn't be possible, which we'll talk a little bit more about. I'm going to give you a quick overview, and then I'm going to hand it over to Rip, who's going to, Rip Patton, who's going to talk a little bit more about what a PFAS is, and so actually, why don't I just do that? Here you go, Rip. [15:21] Rip Patton, environmental engineer, Criteria Associates: Hi, everybody. So PFAS stands for per- and polyfluorinated alcohol substances, so that's the acronym where PFAS come from, and it's basically a family of multiple compounds that contain both a carbon and a fluorine bond. So you can have any combination of carbons and fluorines that are attached to it. And that's what basically makes it a PFAS. So there could be thousands of different PFAS compounds that are out there. One of the things about that carbon and fluorine bond is that it's actually very strong. And that's why it was used in manufacturing because of the strong bonds that it had. But unfortunately, once it goes into the environment, that strong bond doesn't break down, and hence it's kind of the nickname of forever chemicals is how it came to that name. So it basically persists in the environment, and it also, once it is ingested, or if it's ingested, then it does persist in the blood. Basically since 1940 it has been used in a number of consumer products. It's basically in products that have, it has very high resistance, and it also has, it repels both water and stains. So when you look at it 's on your it's the coating on your raincoats that make it water resistant on fabric it's your stain resistant carpets it's your teflon or your non-stick pans and then also notably it's used in it's called a triple f aqueous i always have to aqueous film forming foam or firefighting foam is basically what that's been used in the environment so what is our pay fast and is it safe so basically as it accumulates in the blood it has been linked at very low concentrations to have to have Health effects and low concentrations, the current EPA maximum contaminant level in drinking water for certain PFAS compounds is four parts per trillion, which is actually very, low. We're used to like, if you look at chlorinated solvents is more in the parts per billion, some other more common are in the parts per trillion. So it's one thousandth lower concentrations that may lead to health impact. As you'll see from the slide, there's numerous health effects, cancer, weight effects, immune effects, developmental effects, reproductive effects. So that's basically what PFAS has been linked to as far as health effects. So how does it get ingested? It basically starts in the manufacturing process. It's basically the majority of it is used on consumer products that gets then goes out into everyone's homes and businesses. It is also a certain amount can be released through, you know, air emissions that then eventually falls into surface soils. It can be released through industrial discharges that go to, you know, surface water. The other thing that happens on the consumer level is you know you wash you know products containing PFAS it then does leach out into the wastewater you can go through your septic system then go into your into the groundwater there it can go through your sewer system and it can go through your wastewater treatment plant into surface waters wherever the discharge is and then it does accumulate in the sludge and that's the subject of what we're going to talk about today is in sludge then it gets That's applied as a, I guess, agricultural byproduct and fertilizer, and that's also how we can get into plants and then livestock, too. And that's the consume through drinking water and eating contaminated or consuming drinking water or, you know, meats that contain PFAS. [19:13] Environmental consultant (PFAS presenter): I'll turn it to Robin. Sounds good. But we're not necessarily concerned with, you know, the land spreading on agricultural fields here. But, you know, Maine is historically an agricultural state. And that was the reason for the majority of this, the PFAS ending up in the agricultural fields and the work that David was just talking about. But here, what happened in Westbrook was in the 1980s, after wastewater treatment plants were constructed, some of the sludge that would build up would need to be gotten rid of. You know, and I'm a farm girl, I was brought up on a farm, you know, that the chicken manure, you know, farmers would line up for hours, you know, to get the chicken manure and take back to their fields. The wastewater treatment plants were the same, you know, has the same nutrients that they wanted to take to their farms. Well, there's, there weren't many farms around here, but instead they were land applying it to whatever fields they were. So the fields, the city owned fields that were identified here that we're talking about, we're talking about Warren Field, Fraser Field, and the field behind the high school here where the vocational school is now, were actually identified by the Main Department of Environmental Protection in 2025 as potentially having had land spreading happen there. They were considered a tier four site. As you can see, the DEP classifies the PFAS site as one of four tiers. Tier one is anything that's had over 10,000 cubic yards. Tier five is five to ten thousand, and I'm sorry, tier two is five to ten thousand, and tier three is anything less than five thousand, and tier four is we just don't know. We haven't found records either refuting or confirming that, and that's exactly the case that the city of Westbrook is in. So the first thing we did is once we found out that DEP had put the city's three fields in that category, as we got to work first letting you know in January 2025 that those three sites were considered tier three sites, and then looking for any records indicating that land spreading had happened, finding none, we then found, went to work trying to find a funding source, and we were expecting our municipal wide brownfields assessment grant to be able to pay for that, which we were getting in summer 2025. But when we ran the eligibility determination, we found out that because of the city signed the permit saying, yeah, come on, you can dump it here. That made us a potential responsible party. So we were no longer allowed to use our own grant. But in walks GP COG, hey, we're getting a grant too. You can use ours that we were eligible for. So we used Brownfield's grants from GP COG, which were actually funded through US EPA. So we were greenlit to use their funds. So you might remember back in January, 2026, Monique Cornett and Rip came before you with a very detailed scope of work with what they were going to do for the sampling and analysis. And then shortly after, we came with a council order 2016-15, which was an agreement to allow access to those three sites for them to do the sampling and analysis. And then Criteria worked very diligently to make sure that they provided all the quality control reports and all the methodology would be done in accordance with DEP and EPA requirements so that we could meet the letter of the law and get the, all of the sampling paid for. So how did we how did we do that sampling Ali Drew and is here to tell us and you want to [23:17] Allison Druin, project manager, Criteria Associates: take it home for us Ali and tell us what happened yeah sure all right so as Robin mentioned this was funded through the GPCOG brownfields assessment grant and as a requirement of brownfields funding we needed to prepare a site-specific quality assurance project plan which is essentially just the work plan that outlines the means and methods necessary to execute the sampling and also establishes the objectives. So you may remember the scientific method from, you know, your high school careers. That's the scientific method starts with a hypothesis or a problem and you come up with an objective to assess that. So, the objectives for this assessment were to confirm the presence or absence of PFAS in soil, and then also if PFAS was found to be present, does it actually represent an exposure risk at the concentrations that we found? And we looked at both the current use, which is the athletic fields, as well as potential future uses to be conservative. To meet these objectives, we came up with two sampling approaches, one being incremental sampling methodology, which is where we assessed the surface kind of as a horizon from the top zero to one feet. And then we also collected discrete samples below that horizon. And, you know, these are two different methodologies, but both were selected to make sure that we have a very complete assessment and that we can really speak to a confidence in our investigation. All right. So we're just going to look at one of the three sites, kind of in a little bit of detail, but essentially the other two sites mirror this approach. The first sampling methodology is this incremental sampling methodology, or ISM. This sampling approach collects dozens of little tiny samples and then combines them together to get a single representative statistically valid concentration at the surface. And we use this at PFAS sites to overcome the inherent heterogeneity of soil. So naturally you're going to have lots of variation in soil. If you collect just two samples, that might not be representative of a larger surface, so collecting lots kind of addresses that issue, you. And if you can see, it's kind of hard to see on these images, but this approach filled that entire orange area on this field. And just on the right image, you can see that this is kind of just a graphic of what this sampling involves. We would go to each of those little, start with the yellow triangles. We would collect all those tiny increments, combine them together into one sample, and then we went back and did this three times. So now we have three samples that overlap and we are going to get three concentrations from this approach. So after that, to get that deeper depth interval, we did some discrete soil sampling using a drill rig. So this drill rig will push a tube into the ground and it extracts a core, and from that core we're going to collect the one to three foot soil intervals, so that's representative of the soil beneath what we already sampled with the larger sampling program. And these samples were collected to assess the vertical extent, so we can see if it migrated down into the soil. And on the figure you can see the two little dots is sort of the boring locations where we collected those samples. So the same approach was conducted at all three sites. So this is just Cornelia Warren fields, and in the top left corner you can see the map that was included in that old permit from the 80s. Area two is what was represented by this sampling figure. And similarly here, you have Fraser Field. This is represented by area one from that former permitting figure. And again, the area where ISM was collected is shown in orange. And then the two little borings in the center. And this is the high school. This one is a little bit different because you can see the area six on the permit map, and then we included this historical aerial photograph inset to show you that the permitted area and potential land spreading actually encompasses the area where the current vocational center is. And because that area was largely reworked when the construction happened, and also because it's currently under a building and under parking lots, there's not really any exposure to that area of the site. So we didn't need to assess those areas. So the orange boundary is actually smaller than the potential land spreading area in this case, and is represented by just the existing baseball fields that are shown. And here, because it was a larger area, we did four borings with the deeper discrete samples. All right, so then the samples do get shipped off to a laboratory, and they're going to get us a lab report. And from there, we take those results and we're going to compare them to the main DEP remedial action guidelines. And those guidelines are established levels for evaluating human health risks for contaminants based on their chemical concentrations in the environment. So those are established based. They're very similar to the EPA standards. Standards, they use those toxicological thresholds to calculate state-specific standards. And that's what we use to compare. So on this table, if we were to have had exceedances of those remedial action guidelines, you would see some black highlights, of which you can see there are none, which is good, as David pointed out right up front. Here, we do have just the background concentrations shown in gray. We are just above the background concentrations in some samples, and the reason we would want to compare to background is to distinguish between a point source release or if the land spreading had actually occurred compared to just the general ubiquitous nature of PFAS class just as an ambient condition in Maine. You can see by having these side by side between Cornelia Warren and Fraser and the high school fields that they're pretty similar from field to field, especially Fraser and Cornelia Warren that are spatially adjoining. And then at the high school, it's actually a little bit even lower. And then not shown here is those subsurface samples. Examples, they're actually even lower than the surface, which is good and is sort of indicative that there isn't a lot of vertical migration. And then on the next slide, we're going to hopefully make this a little clearer of what these results actually mean. Rip mentioned earlier that we look at PFAS in the parts per trillion range, which is extremely small. And actually we converted these two parts per billion, which is actually still quite of a small unit, but we provided some examples of what those concentrations actually mean. One parts per million can equate to a drop in a backyard swimming pool, and if you think even smaller, that one drop in Olympic swimming pool is what a part per trillion is, so that's extremely small, almost nothing. And some other examples would be one second in 30 years, or just a tiny ant on the back of an elephant. So you can see those the comparison. In the bar chart on the bottom left, the you can see that the concentrations compared to the rags, which are the two left-hand bars, are almost you can't even see them. So we created this second chart here on the right. It's just shown in a logarithmic scale to make it easier to view. And those 490 and 170 parts per billion rags are extremely high, and we are well below those standards. And you can see the main DEP urban developed background line there, and our concentrations at these fields are much more consistent with that background concentration. Concentration. So hopefully this puts this into a better visual understanding than just some numbers on a table. All right. So what does this mean? The PFAS is present in soil. But well below these main DEP racks. This might suggest that land spreading occurred, but it also just may reflect ambient conditions in Westbrook. Just based on our industrial history, based on the identified soil concentrations all below the rags, a complete exposure pathway to PFAS is not present, so that's the good news, and we are pretty consistent with background, but these background concentrations do not in and of themselves suggest that there was a release, or that there would be any health risks if exposed to these concentrations. So the conclusions that we're going to be drawing in our phase two environmental assessment reports, which are the next step, is that these fields are safe to continue use as is relative to the presence of PFAS. So that's just reiterating that good news. And then any projects that did occur would still need to follow any state standards for solid waste handling consistent with any other project, and that would, if soil were disturbed or removed from the site, but that's pretty typical of any construction project in an urban setting. And so our next steps are just to wrap up these Phase II reports. They do get submitted to EPA and Main DEP for review. Right now they are in draft form. They will be finalized probably early November. If all review processes go accordingly, we do expect to have not any significant changes from that review process. We are fairly confident in these conclusions. [34:47] Environmental consultant (PFAS presenter): Thank you for the time. We were wondering if there were any questions. [34:54] Councillor: Councillor Rudin. It's really not a question but I know I remember January in 25 you came before us and you know we didn't know what we didn't know at that point time and I know that everyone up here was prepared for whatever news that we received. Pleasantly surprised that, you know, there wasn't any proof of any dumping of the sludge from businesses or SD Warren or whatever. I do want to thank, and I'm not sure how the planning came, but we did not only one test, but we did two. We did the surface and we did down below. And, you know, that just shows the professionalism of you and your team and everyone that has spoke tonight that I feel very confident that these three sites are very safe. And if anything, you probably have a fry pan or something in your house that probably has more signs of PFAP. So it is a relief. You know, obviously, we want to be aware of any others. I did have a question that if those three sites were identified as able to be from the DEP, is there any that are on like private property and what would a homeowner or something? Something obviously our three sites have been cleared, but, you know, I'm thinking of one in particular, which I'm not going to say, but just curious of what the protocol would that be? [37:10] Environmental consultant (PFAS presenter): First, I'd like to address your first comment and say that I appreciate the vote of confidence and that, you know, these are junior varsity fields for baseball, softball, and the like, And so, you know, of course, we wanted to take every measurable action that we could available to us to make sure that these fields are safe for the youth and for the general public. And, yep, there are a couple sites that are on private land, and I'll maybe give it over to Rip to maybe, if you want to talk about what options they might have. [37:47] Rip Patton, environmental engineer, Criteria Associates: There is a public database that is out there. So to be honest, I'm not familiar of what those sites are. The main DEP does have a program to be testing those sites. So we'd have to go through that program to get any of the testing that may be required on those sites. But it's not something I typically, you know, are involved in. But using the DEP PFAS program, their goal is to anything that had permitted sludge disposal has been known. And the DEP is slowly getting a database of surface soil samples at those locations. [38:24] Councillor: I'm not looking to open Pandora's box or anything like that. But if someone from home is seeing this and are concerned or developers or things like that, but I just wanted to put that out there that obviously it contacted DEP or something like that. But we as far as I'm concerned I think the city has done their due diligence and has done it thoroughly and I'm very proud of the work that everyone has done and if it's associated [38:57] Rip Patton, environmental engineer, Criteria Associates: with a developer or some type of redevelopment to the city's brownfields assessment program can do the same type of work that we did on the fields too anyone [39:09] Mayor (presiding officer): else all [39:12] Mayor Morris: right thank you Thank you, Robin, and team. I think that we've had this question out there for a long time. We couldn't have hoped for a more complete answer, so thank you. Before I finish my time, I just want to hand it over to City Clerk Ledoux to just give us an update on voting. Thank you very much, Mayor Morris. I just wanted to say today, October 5th, started the 30-day period before the election in which we can do absentee voting. Today was the first day of in-person absentee voting at City Hall. We're going to be open regular business hours, 730 to 4, Monday through Friday. And we do have a few late night hours and some special hours for folks that maybe can't get there during regular hours. So Wednesday, October 21st, we will be open until 7 p.m. for late night voting. We will be open Saturday, October 17th from 8 in the morning to noontime for folks that want to come in on Saturday. And we will additionally be open until 7 p.m. on Wednesday, October 28th. And again, you have until Thursday, October 28th or 29th, excuse me to vote absentee without a special circumstance so we look forward to seeing you and we had a great first day of a turnout so thank you very much thank you thank you next is city [40:39] Councillor: Council messages. Counter burden, thank you. I know that through these doors the representative has left, but I do want to recognize Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Our family was, a unfortunately, touched by domestic violence, and the organization that we have created is Westbrook Strong. And for the last, I think it's four years, but I know three years, we've given funds to these organizations. Unfortunately, it is a needed thing. Through These Doors, Finding Your Voices, and Caring Voices are the three that we identified every year. And I just want to say that domestic violence has many forms and shapes. If you see something that isn't right, say something. And, you know, it's okay to let someone know that, you know what, that isn't quite right. Or it's just, it could save someone's life or someone from having harm. I cannot express my gratitude to these organizations. And when we first started looking, we thought it would be difficult to find an organization to donate to. But there's a lot. There is a tremendous amount. And it's not to scare anyone, but domestic violence is real, and it again, it comes in many shapes and forms, but just keep that in the back of your mind. Thank you. Thank you. Any other council [42:31] Mayor (presiding officer): messages? On to student council representative. I have asked Clerk Ladue to give us a quick update, and we're out with our student council representative. Happy to. Thank you very much. [42:44] Mayor Morris: So, typically the city council does solicit, up to two student representatives to serve, on the body, as non-voting members, but able to participate. And we encourage that participation with our high school students. We did have, low interest at the end of the school year last year. And so in consultation with council leadership, as well as the high school leadership, we did ultimately make the decision to do a pause and then re-advertise once the school year open for 2026, 2027. I'm happy to report we have started receiving some applications. So I will be working with council leadership to review those and hopefully see some faces here in the near future. So hoping to get that going in the next couple of weeks here.
Unfinished Business
[43:31] Mayor (presiding officer): Thank you so much. Next, we're on to our first public comment. If you'd like to speak, come up to the podium. You have three minutes. Please state your name. And if you are a resident of Westbrook, if you'd like to tell us what ward you're in, that can help us with follow-up. Okay. I see no one. On to unfinished business. We have none. On to orders of the day, second and final reading. [43:58] Mayor Morris: This order is order 2026-106. This is found on page 9 of your packet. Authorizing purchase of portable traffic signals for public services. [44:08] Mayor (presiding officer): What are the wishes of the council? Councilor Reardon? [44:09] Councillor: Thank you. I move for second and final reading for orders number 2026-106, authorizing purchase of portable traffic signs for public service. [44:20] Mayor (presiding officer): Is there a second? Any discussion? [44:26] City staff/administrator presenting: I just wanted to revisit this item since there were some questions at our last council meeting, and we have Doug Eaton, our Operations Manager from Public Services, here along with Director of Public Services and Engineering Eric Dudley here to help answer those questions. As a reminder, this is second and final reading on the purchase of one set of that's two Vermac portable traffic signals at a cost of 64,891 31 that helps us provide traffic controlled traffic flow and work zone areas, so Doug is here this evening along with Eric to help answer some of the questions that were asked specifically about life expectancy of those units and the total cost savings that the city can realize, so Doug, Eric, if you'd like to come up and share that information, I'd appreciate it. [45:27] Doug Eaton, Operations Manager, Public Services: Yes, good evening. Doug Eaton, Operations Manager for Public Services. Yeah, after diving into this a little bit, I got a chance to really put some numbers to some of the questions that were raised in the last meeting. One of the big, I guess, difficult situations in trying to figure this out was how long have these been around? And the company that we're trying to purchase the message, I'm sorry, the traffic signals for, they've been around since 2012. So trying to get some data for you guys to figure out life expectancy was a little difficult. But reaching out to the vendor, they were very supportive in providing information that I've provided for everybody. So the life expectancy of these signals is about 15 years, based on what I've done for research. 15 years is a municipal life expectancy. It's not an everyday construction expectancy. Those numbers could fluctuate just a little bit depending on usage. And that's one thing I can't figure out is the amount of times that these would be used. One of the other questions that was raised was the warranty item. How long were these gonna be warrantied for? So the answer to that question was, so one year on the, components themselves and two years, for the actual, signals completed and, manufactured by Burmex. So, we expect these, signals to be in our fleet for about 15 years. And, one of the other discussions was trying to figure out where these were going to fit into the operational, budget. It and I've come up with some numbers average and these are just ballpark figures were in any given year we would flag for traffic control roughly 60 days a year taking in consideration that these signals would not be used for every single traffic flagging operation I figured about 30 days would be a typical yearly usage of these signals so based on that calculation I took an average wage of an employee and multiply it times two because in typical situations we need two flaggers and I come up with a number somewhere around $15,000 a year in which this would assist saving those wages for other functions in the department. Once again, these are just ballpark figures. I could run some real numbers once we used it, but those are the numbers that I went with. And over a 10-year life expectancy, which is what I used as a very, minimal life expectancy. You know, we could see a savings of around $88,000 in wages and which could be used for other activities and duties along in the department. So does anybody have any questions or thoughts or concerns? I hope I answered some of the questions that were raised. And if you have any other questions, I'll be happy to answer them. [48:52] Dave Van Slyke, senior counsel, Preti Flaherty: Yeah. Appreciate the detailed breakdown. Thank you. You're welcome. [48:57] Mayor (presiding officer): Any other questions? THANK YOU SO MUCH. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL ON THIS ITEM? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE PUBLIC? [49:14] Mayor Morris: ROLL CALL, PLEASE. COUNCILOR MCCAMBRIDGE? YES. VICE PRESIDENT SHAWNESSEY? YES. COUNCILOR CHAO? YES. COUNCILOR FALKINGHAM?
New Business
[49:22] Mayor (presiding officer): YES. COUNCILOR RAY DUNN? YES. AND PRESIDENT MONROE? YES. SIX IN FAVOR, NONE OPPOSED. ON TO NEW BUSINESS. WE HAVE NO BUSINESS LICENSES, BUT WE DO HAVE ONE RESOLVE. [49:32] Mayor Morris: THIS IS RESOLVE 2026-17. FOUND ON PAGE 13 OF YOUR PACKET, CONFIRMING THE APPOINTMENT OF BRUNO INNACIO AS FINANCE DIRECTOR. [49:41] Mayor (presiding officer): WHAT ARE THE WISHES OF THE COUNCIL? [49:44] Councillor: I MOVE FOR THE FOLLOWING RESOLVE, CONFIRMING APPOINTMENT FOR BRUNO INNACIO AS FINANCE DIRECTOR. [49:52] Mayor (presiding officer): IS THERE A SECOND? ANY DISCUSSION? [49:59] City staff/administrator presenting: If I can just ask Mr. Innacio to come up front, if you don't mind, so that he can introduce himself to the council. And while he's doing that, I know we've shared this with the council before and with the public, but I wanted to give a little bit of introduction of him to our community as our new finance director. So Bruno brings more than 20 years of leadership experience across public and private sectors with extensive experience in finance, operations, budgeting, strategic planning, and process improvements. Most recently, he served as the Director of Finance and Administrative Services for the State of Maine Secretary of State, where he oversaw a $70-plus million budget in finance and administrative operations. Prior to that, he served as the Director of Public Services for the Maine Bureau of Motor Vehicles. He spent approximately eight years at UNAM serving in leadership roles, including Director of Corporate Strategy, Director of Operations, and Operations Manager. His experience with government finance, public sector and citizen-facing operations, strategic planning and technology and process improvement provides a strong foundation for his role here as finance director. And with our city's future priorities, we are incredibly pleased to bring this forward, his appointment forward for confirmation. Thank you to Counselor Chow, who sat in on the interview process for our finance director position. And I'm happy to introduce Bruno to you. I was hoping he might have a few minutes to just introduce himself. [51:38] New Finance Director: Good evening, members of the council. As I presented myself here in front of you as the new director, finance director for the CEO of Westbrook, I'm really excited. I want to thank the city staffers this last week welcome a warm welcome to they've met a lot of meetings with the department heads and have showed me around again really excited about bringing my experience and to help with the city's finances so thank you thank you any questions from the count [52:09] Councillor: For the council or as a child yes Mr. Nash of thank you for coming to the city at Westbrook. We're excited to have you here, and we appreciate you joining us. One of my initial thoughts was, what a nice guy. Thank you. And it's echoed by some of the employees as well. They're like, have you met Bruno? He's a nice guy. So that's showing that we've done good. So thank you. Thank you. [52:40] Mayor (presiding officer): Thank you so much, and welcome to the city. Thank you. Yes. Any questions from the public? [52:49] Mayor Morris: Roll call, please. Councillor McCambridge? Yes. Vice President Shaughnessy? Yes. Councillor Chow? Yes. Councillor Faulkner? Yes. Councillor Reardon? Yes. And President Monroe? [53:00] Mayor (presiding officer): Yes. Six in favor, none opposed. On to orders of the day, one reading required. Order 2026-107. [53:08] Mayor Morris: This is Order 2026-107, found on page 15 of your packet. Adopting the Annual General Assistance Ordinance and setting the maximums for fiscal year 2026 2027. I will note this does require a public hearing for [53:21] Mayor (presiding officer): today, Monday, October 5th. Thank you. I will go ahead and open the public hearing now. If anyone would like to speak, please come up to the podium. I see no one. I'm going to close the public hearing. What [53:37] Councillor Shaughnessy: are the wishes of the council? Councillor Shaughnessy. I'll move Order 2026-107 adopting the annual General Assistance Ordinance and setting the maximums for FY 2026-27, that the Westbrook City Council hereby approves the enclosed documents relating to General Assistant Maximums for the period of October 1st, 2026 through September 30th, 2027, as required by the Maine Department of Health and Human Services, the General Assistance Ordinance Appendix A, B, D, E, F, G, and H, and the 20, 26, 27 general assistant housing maximums for recovery residents and that the Westbrook City Council hereby further authorizes the Director of General Assistance and Social Services to work within the overall maximums outlined in Appendix A for housing assistance requests. This is the first and final reading. [54:38] Mayor (presiding officer): Thank you. Is there a second? Councilor Rudin? Any discussion? [54:42] City staff/administrator presenting: Administrator Holmes? So this is an item that comes before City Council every year. The GA program is administered at the local level by municipal personnel. We have our Director of General Assistance here, Harrison Dia, in the audience to help answer any questions that you might have about this. But the program is very strictly regulated by state statute. Statute. What you have before you is the annual update of the financial maximums for the various benefit categories that are annually adjusted to reflect changing costs of heating fuel, utilities, food. That also includes the maximum total benefit levels for both individuals and families, which are also adjusted annually. As you'll note, we're asking for approval, as we do every year, of appendices A, B, D, E, F, G, H. We're skipping C, which is the maximums for housing. That's, we've included that for Informational purposes only in your packet, but we are not asking for adoption of C. This gives the city leverage with landlords to negotiate lower rental rates. As I know Harrison's here, if you have any questions for him, but that is a general overview of this item before you this evening. [55:58] Mayor (presiding officer): Thank you. Any questions from the Council? Any questions from the public? [56:06] Mayor Morris: Roll call, please. Councilor McCambridge? Yes. Vice President Shawnessy? Yes. Councilor Chao? Yes. Councilor Faulkium? Yes. Councilor Ray Dunn? Yes. And President Monroe? Yes. [56:19] Mayor (presiding officer): Six in favor, none opposed. On to Order 2026-108. [56:25] Mayor Morris: This is Order 2026-108, found on page 115 of your packet, accepting unappropriated funds report for fourth quarter fiscal year 2026. Thank you. What [56:35] Councillor: are the wishes of the Council? Councillor Reiden? Yes, I move for first and final reading for December 2026-108, accepting unappropriated funds report for fourth quarter FY 2026, that the Westbrook City Council hereby authorizes acceptance of unappropriated funds report for the fourth quarter for FY2026 in accordance with the Ordinance 2021-121. [57:08] Mayor (presiding officer): Is there a second? Councilor Chau? Any discussion? [57:18] City staff/administrator presenting: Yep. So just as a quick reminder, anything over $5,000 comes before City Council for authorization. Authorization. Council has, through the adoption of Order 2021-121, authorized municipal departments both to accept and expend unappropriated funds of less than $5,000 and to report that to you as City Council on a quarterly basis. And so this is from that final quarter of fiscal year 26. [57:44] Mayor (presiding officer): Thank you. Any discussion or questions from the Council? Councilor Chau? [57:49] Councillor: Yes, I'd like to thank anyone who's donated to the police, fire, library, public services, and community services. There's too many people to list, too many names to list to thank individually, but thank you all for your contribution, too. It really helps. [58:08] Mayor (presiding officer): Anyone else from the Council? Any comments from the public? Roll call, please. Councillor McAmbridge? Yes. Vice President Shaughnessy? Yes. Councillor Chau? Yes. Councillor Falkner. Yes. Councillor Reardon. Yes. And President Monroe. Yes. Six in favor and opposed. On to orders of the day, two readings required. [58:30] Mayor Morris: This is Order 2026-109, found on page 119 of your packet, authorizing a word of bid for replacement medium-duty pickup truck for the Fire Department. [58:39] Mayor (presiding officer): What are the wishes of the Council? Councillor Reardon. [58:42] Councillor: I move for first reading for Orders Number 2026-109, authorizing a word of bid for replacement Placement medium duty pickup truck for the fire department that the Westbrook City Council hereby authorizes an award of bid to Casco Bay Ford from Yarmouth, Maine for a 2027 Ford F-350 in the amount of $71,476 as outlined in the attached exhibit and the funds are in the stated account. [59:18] Mayor (presiding officer): Is there a second? Second, Councilor Chau, any discussion? I'm going to turn to Holmes. [59:23] City staff/administrator presenting: So just as a reminder, this is an item that came up during our fiscal 26 capital improvement program discussions. This was an item that our fire chief, Sloan, who is here this evening, can help address if there's any questions. We had a pickup truck, Unit 7, that has been out of service for two years. This is a medium-duty pickup truck that they use to haul various departmental trailers, as well as forestry equipment that they use during forest fire season. They received two bids for this. The lowest bidder was Casco Bay Ford. And I think that's probably a quick synopsis of this vehicle. You looked at this once before back in the fiscal year 26 CIP program, and we are now bringing it forward for your authorization to expend those funds. [1:00:18] Mayor (presiding officer): Any questions from the council? Any questions from the public? Okay. Roll call, please. Councilor McCabridge? Yes. Vice President Shaughnessy? [1:00:31] Mayor Morris: Yes. Councilor Chau? Yes. Councilor Falke? Yes. Councilor Burden? Yes. And President Monroe? Yes. [1:00:39] Mayor (presiding officer): Yes, six in favor, not opposed. On to Order of the Day, 2026-110. [1:00:43] Mayor Morris: This is Order 2026-110, found on page 128 of your packet. Authorizing acceptance of federal asset forfeiture funds. [1:00:52] Mayor (presiding officer): What are the wishes of the council? [1:00:57] Councillor Shaughnessy: Move Order 2026-110, authorizing acceptance of federal assistant forfeiture funds that the Westbrook City Council hereby authorizes the acceptance of federal asset forfeiture funds in the total of $5,433.05 as outlined in the attached exhibit and funds to be credited in the stated line. [1:01:20] Mayor (presiding officer): Thank you. Is there a second? Councilor Bruton, any discussion? [1:01:25] City staff/administrator presenting: Administrator Holmes? Just a quick note. This is something that we've been seeing more and more often recently on council agendas, a special thank you to our police department. This was the result of the city of Westbrook's participation in a large-scale meth dealer investigation. We have an officer who was assigned to the FBI's Safe Streets Task Force. And through that participation and having our officer participate in that investigation, the funds were forfeited to the city of Westbrook by the court system. So thank you to the police department for participation in that. AND THIS IS THE RESULT. [1:02:02] Mayor (presiding officer): YES, THANK YOU TO THE CHIEF BEING HERE AND YOUR ENTIRE DEPARTMENT FOR THE WORK YOU GUYS ARE DOING TO KEEP OUR STREETS CLEAN AND IN TURN GET THESE FUNDS. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION FROM THE COUNCIL? ANY DISCUSSION FROM THE PUBLIC? ROLL CALL, PLEASE. [1:02:19] Mayor Morris: COUNCILOR MCCAMBRIDGE? YES. VICE PRESIDENT SEANESSEE? YES. COUNCILOR CHAO? YES. COUNCILOR FAULKIUM? [1:02:27] Mayor (presiding officer): YES. COUNCILOR BURDEN? YES. Yes. Six in favor, none opposed. On to Order 2026-111. [1:02:34] Mayor Morris: This is Order 2026-111, found on page 131 of your packet, authorizing expenditure to Przemska Regional Land Trust for Millbrook Preserve Improvements. [1:02:45] Mayor (presiding officer): What are the wishes of the Council? Councillor Reardon? [1:02:47] Councillor: Thank you. I move for first reading for orders number 2026-111, authorizing expenditures for Pasumska Regional Land Trust for Millbrook Preserve improvements that the Westbrook City Council hereby authorizes the expenditure of $50,000 to the Pasumska Regional Land Trust for improvements to Millbrook Preserve as recommended by the Recreation and Conservation commission and as outlined in the attacks exhibit the funds are available in the following budget line open space brooks edge farm and deer hill thank you is there a second [1:03:29] City staff/administrator presenting: councillor shauncey any discussion administrator homes so this is an item that's very exciting for us a recommendation for this expenditure was made by recreation conservation commission On the request from the Presumptscott Regional Land Trust, PRLT, as everyone in here is aware or ought to be aware, the alewife run that goes through the Millbrook Preserve is an amazing natural phenomenon that is growing in both fish passage and in popularity. This preserve has seen a huge influx of visitors hoping to observe this process. However, the trail system wasn't necessarily built to accommodate the number of visitors that are there. So these funds are going to help enhance that trail system signage and are going to be an asset for our community. [1:04:25] Mayor (presiding officer): Any discussion from the council? Any discussion from the public? Roll call, please. Councilor McCambridge? Yes. Vice President Shaughnessy? Yes. Councilor Chau? Yes. Councilor Falkham? Yes. Councilor Reardon? Yes. And President Monroe? Yes. Six in favor, none opposed. On to Order 2026.112. [1:04:47] Mayor Morris: This is Order 2026.112, found on page 138 of your packet, authorizing expenditure for Portland Trail's Rock Row Connector Trail. [1:04:56] Mayor (presiding officer): What are the wishes of the council? Councilor Reardon? [1:04:59] Councillor: I move for first reading for Orders No. 2026.112, authorizing expenditures for Portland Trail's Rock Row Connector Trail. That the Westbrook City Council hereby authorizes the recreation and conservation expenditures in the amount of $10,000 to be allocated to Portland Trails towards the Rock Row Eastern Connecting Trail. And the budget lines are open space, 22 Cumberland Street, 891 Bridgeton Road, and 185 Park Road. [1:05:39] City staff/administrator presenting: Is there a second? Councilor Shaughnessy? Any discussion? Administrator Holmes? So this is the second item on the agenda this evening. That's an expenditure that came at the recommendation of the Recreation and Conservation Commission. Mission. This one is a $10,000 expenditure to Portland Trails. Portland Trails has been working to build an off-road connection between Portland and Westbrook. And this one in particular helps build upon some funds that they already received through the Maine Turnpike Authority. This $10,000 would help build that connection, both a public bicycle and pedestrian connection. Reconcom was happy to recommend and is brought forward for your consideration. [1:06:30] Mayor (presiding officer): ANY DISCUSSION FROM THE COUNCIL? ANY DISCUSSION FROM THE PUBLIC? CALL, PLEASE. COUNCILOR MCCAMBRIDGE? YES. VICE PRESIDENT SEANESSEE? YES. COUNCILOR CHAO? YES. COUNCILOR FAULKIUM? YES. COUNCILOR VARDEN? YES. AND PRESIDENT DELAWARE? YES, SIX IN FAVOR, NONE OPPOSED. ON TO ORDER OF THE DAY 2026-113. [1:06:53] Mayor Morris: This is Order 2026-113 found on page 142 of your packet. Authorizing task order number 11 with Credirie Associates for supplemental services regarding River Walk North. [1:07:04] Mayor (presiding officer): WHAT ARE THE WITNESSES OF THE COUNCIL? COUNCILOR SEANESSEE? [1:07:09] Councillor Shaughnessy: Move Order 2026-113, authorizing task order number 11 with Cordary Associates for supplemental services regarding Riverwalk North. That the Westbrook City Council hereby authorizes the mayor or designee to enter into task order number 11 with Cordary Associates of Westbrook, Maine in the amount not to exceed $40,970 to provide supplemental services related to Riverwalk North project funded by an FY24 U.S. EPA Brownfields cleanup grant as outlined in the attached exhibit. Funds are available in the stated budget line. [1:07:50] Mayor (presiding officer): Thank you. Is there a second? Counselor Chao, thank you. Any discussion? [1:07:55] City staff/administrator presenting: ADMINISTRATOR HOMES? THIS IS ONE OF TWO ITEMS THAT ROBIN SONDERS, OUR PROJECT MANAGER, HAS BROUGHT FORWARD THIS EVENING FOR CONSIDERATION. THIS FIRST ONE, THIS TASK ORDER WILL ALLOW FOR GEO TECHNICAL MODELING WITH CREDIT Associates for the project design for Riverwalk North. So that is our next stage here, along with developing the estimated construction costs of Riverwalk North of that project. They serve as our QEP, our Qualified Environmental Professional. Thank you. I'm getting the nod from Robin. And they're the project manager for Riverwalk North as well. So this is a large-scale, long-term project that we're working on, and this is that next step for us, and if there's any questions [1:08:41] Mayor (presiding officer): robin's here to answer them. thank you. any questions or comments from the council? any questions or comments from the public? roll [1:08:53] Mayor Morris: call please. counselor mccambridge? yes. vice president shaughnessy? yes. counselor chow? yes. counselor falchion? yes. counselor reardon? yes. i'm president [1:09:03] Mayor (presiding officer): Yes. Six in favor, none opposed. On to the final reading of the day, Order 2026-114. [1:09:09] Mayor Morris: This is Order 2026-114, found on page 148 of your packet, amending several orders relating to the Landslide Vulnerability Assessment Project and amending vendor list. [1:09:20] Mayor (presiding officer): What are the wishes of the Council? Councilor Burden? [1:09:23] Councillor: yes i move for first reading orders numbers 20 26 114 by title only, amending several orders related to the landslide vulnerability assessment project and amending vendor list. at the westbrook city council hereby amends several orders related to the landslide vulnerability assessment project AS OUTLINED BELOW. AND FURTHER AMENDS THE ASSOCIATED PROJECT VENDOR LIST AS OUTLINED IN THE ATTACH EXHIBIT. THANK YOU. [1:10:00] Mayor (presiding officer): IS THERE A SECOND? ANY DISCUSSION? [1:10:05] City staff/administrator presenting: ADMINISTRATOR HOLMES? I WOULD LIKE TO READ THROUGH SOME OF THESE ITEMS AS WE BRING THIS PROJECT FORWARD FOR COMPLETION. IT'S SLATED FOR COMPLETION IN SEPTEMBER OF 2027, UTILIZING THE FUNDS THAT THE CITY OF Westbrook received both through congressionally directed spending secured through Senators both Angus King and Susan Collins, along with matching funds from Maine DOT's Infrastructure Adaptation Fund. So the first amendment is to in order to authorize an additional expenditure of $22,000 to the University of Maine's College of Engineering for landslide and geotechnical engineering work. The second item is $27,960 to Cradery Associates for federal grant administration and contractor management services. The third item is an additional $60,999 to Kamoyne Associates for policy development and economic impact assessment. As we develop the slate of policy tools and recommendations, not only for the city of Westbrook, but for this regional program as well for consideration. That's an item that they'll be working on and are working on. The fourth item is $37,175 to Soil Metrics for geotechnical subsurface investigation. And the last item is a $5,000 stipend to Soil Metrics and a $10,000 stipend to Apex Companies for participation on the technical advisory panel. This is that panel of peer review consultants to just review and confirm the data that has been collected along the way. [1:11:45] Mayor (presiding officer): Thank you. Any questions from the council? Any questions from the public? [1:11:53] Mayor Morris: Call, please. Councilor McCambridge? Yes. Vice President Shawnessy? Yes. Councilor Chao? Yes. Councilor Faulkium? Yes. Councilor Rierden? Yes. [1:12:03] Mayor (presiding officer): And President Monroe? Yes. Six in favor, none opposed. On to our second and final public comment of the evening. If you'd like to speak, please come up, state your name, if you are a resident of Westbrook, and if you'd like to give us your ward number, we can follow up appropriately. I see no public comment. We have no referrals, no committee reports, no executive session. Meeting adjourned. Meeting adjourned, yep. So moved. Is there a second? Okay. Roll call, please. Councilor McCambridge? Yes. Vice President Shaughnessy? Yes. Councilor Chau? Yes. Councillor Falkian? Yes. Councillor Reardon? Yes. And President Monroe? Yes. We're adjourned. It goes about five minutes, and we'll switch over to the Committee of the Whole.