Bangor council reviews golf course, parks budget in workshop

There's just grab one. Grab a black one from the side. You're [clears throat] live. Yes, we are. Good evening. Welcome to the budget workshop. May 13th 5:15. We are in the council chambers around the council table. We have three managers. We have counselor Dean, counselor Carson, counselor Leonard, counselor Bloom, counselor Beck, counselor Mauer, and I'm Sue Horns, council chair. Now, we will be joined She'll be coming later, but counselor Fish will be here. Counselor Walker is unavailable to attend this meeting. So, we have If you have a couple of minutes, Mr. Walker, sure. So, um >> [laughter] >> So, I think I'm I don't think I know. I'm going to suggest that we actually not do the vast park budget today. That's primarily the Cross Insurance Center. And as you recall, we're going to have a robust conversation about the Cross Insurance Center on Monday. I think there's a lot of crossover in the questions that you might ask between the two topics, their contract and the budget. And so I think it makes sense to sort of pause for that one, let us work through all of the questions that remain based on that contract discussion. And then, once we tackle that, tackle the budget um discussion. So, I will likely move that likely I had it tentatively marked to move to the 28th. I think that will work out pretty well for me. Which I think from a timing perspective won't be probably that will work out fine. Should result in a long night. That's okay with everyone. Yeah, that's fine. So, the first item is going to be the Bangor municipal golf course. And we have director of the what's coming up this evening. He's going to be here, too. See, he listens. Thank you. Tony Price, your golf and recreation director is going to tabled by our golf professional, Rob Jarvis. Um This evening will start a new discussion of the golf course. This is a golf course of 27 hole facility, a clubhouse, concessionaire with restaurants, um and if we go through quickly about the golf course, it's year round facility for us. At least when we have snow, we do use snow shoe and fat tire rails up there. Um The organizational chart is pretty straightforward. Um it is a division of parks and recreation, and that is then and overseen directly by the professional professional with two other uh current employees, meaning the assistant golf course superintendent and golf course superintendent, as well as a variety of uh seasonal staff both in the operational of the golf shop specifically and the grounds. Some things that the golf course uh uh, has has accomplished and the core functions that they provide uh, the city and some of the goals and priorities of the golf course coming up in the next fiscal year. As I mentioned, uh, it's mainly maintain a 27 hole municipal golf course of which I believe uh, we're one of three of such size. Riverside Riverside The tennis is 36 hole municipal golf. I mentioned that specifically with multi-course properties. >> Um, especially as a municipal operation um it's managed efficiently and and smartly for the system of the community. 18 hole championship course, nine hole Kelly nine, driving range and two uh, practice ranges certainly a valued recreational resource uh, for the city as well as an economic asset both to the city and the region. Um, it is indeed an enterprise fund as we've talked about before therefore it uh, supports itself entirely including the employees and the uh, fringe costs for those employees. Uh, completely supports itself and generally contributes to its own reserves at the end of the year. Uh, one of the probably one of the better accomplishments as far as being good stewards of the property is the ongoing maintenance and membership in the Audubon Cooperative Sanctuary Program. That program uh, has allowed us to create a variety of habitats up there as well as um review our turf maintenance program with Audubon. It's really unique program that the golf course is involved with and we're put on the spot again and asked in Maine in particular how many I it's it revolves around four to two. So, sometimes people get in and then they let their certification lapse. Um generally two to four. Um your head golf professional and adult become quite a beekeeper. So uh I don't know that I would have ever imagined that, but uh Rob and me two of us. Uh two hives? Four. Four hives? It's four hives. Yeah, we just expanded one yesterday. What species? Saskatraz honey bees. Yeah. Hardy from Saskatchewan is where they were kind of created for Maine winters, so they've uh they've been we we haven't lost a colony yet in three or four winters, so Excellent. Yeah, they've uh they've done very well. Yeah. It's a golf course, so I'm glad it expanded to four. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> That's about just so you know, I didn't know that. That's about 225,000 bees. Wow. So it's a lot of bees. >> How many pounds of honey? I think last year we got around 50 lb of honey, somewhere around there. Yeah, we got quite a and it was a tough honey year because of the the drought they they struggled, but they did they did they did pretty darn well. Are we selling the honey? >> We are. The honey we sell the honey and that offsets the cost of the bees, which are >> [clears throat] >> can be actually fairly it's an expensive hobby if you were a hobbyist, but it certainly helps. Yeah. And you have butterfly projects, too, right? We do. Yeah, monarch butterflies. We have uh several plots that we naturalized around the golf course that we had a young man from uh Bangor High School actually who volunteered for us and he planted uh a lot of milkweed. If anyone needs milkweed, come on up cuz it it did really well, so yeah, we have quite a few monarchs over the a lot of good places to go see them. And we even inspired a young lady, her name escapes me, she lives on neighboring street and she planted milkweed in her backyard that abuts the golf course. So, she also has some butterflies that she's seen. So, yeah, it's great. It's really It's nice when it when it works and it connects with the community, too. So. It's a good opportunity to say it's No Mow May, by the way. Indeed. Yeah. By by necessity in some spots. True. You can get your signs here, you know, for No Mow May. At the office, actually. So, continuing on with some of the core functions, as we contract the operation of the concession restaurant and the clubhouse, and we have been very successful and have a good partnership with Birdies up there at the golf course. Uh the membership sold out again, that's 401 memberships to the golf course. We talked about the Audubon certification in 2025. Nearly 38,000 rounds were played at Bangor Municipal Golf Course. That included 25 outings that we hosted, which is balanced the staff strikes between the regular everyday greens fee and and member playing public to hold being able to host these events at our facility. Uh the 2026 Maine Senior Amateur Championship is going to be hosted as will be hosted will be hosted in August this in August. Uh junior golf, those are our future greens fee playing members and and greens fee paying public has increased 30%. That's exciting to see that between the practice areas in the back and and the mini programs that that Rob's staff has pulled together for youth, it's it's encouraging to see that increase. That in the Monday league, we had 60 plus participants. Uh 23,000 plus cart rentals, which are sold on a per person basis. Uh it certainly helps the overall operation of the golf course. And we have been talking about That was the This is the urgent uh contract that we were with previous concessioner for a number of years, so the transition has been smooth and very a very positive partnership. Uh the crew would like to work on this coming fiscal year writing in Kelly 9 bunkers, and that's going to be a two to three-year process for that. Uh expanding the forward tees to improve accessibility and support and increase use. Start working on the cart paths. We're going to make use of uh asphalt grindings that the public works has on the supply of. That seems to work the best for us and is the by far most cost-efficient uh approach to repairing the cart paths. Uh replacing the sands and renovating the bunkers on the championship 18-hole course. Uh hopefully replace the roof on the clubhouse. We've got some aging HVAC units. We're actually just up there yesterday. We're getting ready for the season. Uh work on the uh landscaping around the golf course and then start to prioritize some of the other clubhouse improvements on the facility. Anything else about highlights for with mostly raw, but certainly I'll keep going then. Uh the golf course, as we've talked about, is one of our sponsors, so certainly the revenue that is produced completely contributes to its operation and pays for itself. In addition to that, um it also contributes, and you'll see that as a credit in the general fund side of parks and recreation, it contributes to the operation of parks and recreation specifically, as well as to the city general fund as a whole for the support that is provided from staff here at city hall. In addition to all of that, um it pays for its debts and pays for its operating costs. Um and generally has funds at the end of the year contributes to its own reserve for um times like this, for example, when springtime isn't the most favorable to be out playing golf today. And the budget sheets that's provided to you summarizes the changes we've had. Um resources of the golf course. Moving on. Um Some of the capital improvements we have planned, um and certainly some of the details of this Rob can share with you as I conclude with this. We have been leasing our golf carts. They are indeed called golf carts. I'm not really referring to as golf carts. Um So, we're in we're in the process of starting to plan to replace the current fleet. Uh we are at the last year of the current lease. Yes. And that was 5 years. Um we talked about the renovations both on the course and in the clubhouse, uh and having to purchase a new ice machine. That summarizes improvement plan for the golf course coming up in the next four to five years. Anything I should have talked about that I did not? Um, I do not think so. I think you covered everything pretty well. I did. At least it's five years. Yes. Okay. Yep. And currently that's in that kind of um amenity of the golf course changes and rounds provided by the people who are getting more than about Yeah, we have found in the last This is our third round of leases. Second or third round of leases of the golf carts. No, this is our first round that we leased. This is our first fleet we leased. We've leased equipment, mowing equipment. >> Mowing equipment, we leased golf carts. We've This is the first one we just made. Yes, correct. Um, so the benefits of leasing, having a consistent amount of revenue in the budget versus is it more beneficial to purchase? That's what we're doing. We're doing something [snorts] We'll be doing something similar. You will notice that if I can just our So this golf cart lease is for 60 golf carts. Ours previous was for 50. Now they are now about 60, just a little over 60% of rounds are played using a golf cart. So it's other than the grass, it's the number one amenity to the golf course. And obviously it's a significant revenue stream. So our last lease payment was just under $39,000. So when you look back and you have a question of how come it's now 62, it's because we've added 10 cars and that other lease we also traded a bunch of cars in against. So that's why that payment was so lower. Um Tracy mentioned 37,000 rounds. Last year we had a pretty dismal spring, too. Year before that we had 40,000 rounds. So the golf carts get used a lot. Um Um they get used mostly very friendly, but they do take some wear and tear. So, it's kind of one of those if we buy them, you know, you end up keeping them too long and then they become a detractant from the from the experience. So, we've kind of just chosen that leasing is the most effective way to have the best product. That seems to be very cost-effective for us, too. So. Questions, Councilmember? Just a quick curiosity, won't really change my mind, but um what are the uh lease agreements to the cars? Like are they mandated to always stay on golf property? They are. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We've run into that. We do have some that we own as well. We kept from that fleet that I mentioned, we had owned 50 golf carts and we we kept 26, I believe, that the the city owns outright. Those ones, obviously, we can do what we want with those, but the the leased ones have to stay there. Thank you. Any other questions? Just a quick question. The uh amount we're putting aside for course renovation and hot and of house renovations, that's not all going to be expended in this year. We're cuz putting it in for 3 years, so you're spending Our intention was 90 you know, yes, that was for Correct. 90,000 for >> year. for this year and 60 for the building. Correct. >> But I guess my question is for in the future your life expectancy of the roof and life expectancy of HV if we if you if it's going to cost more than 90,000 which you don't anticipate it will this year. No. No, our our goal is that we've had the discussion about the building. It's old and it's you know, do we renovate it? Do we It's kind of everything to rip it down, build a new one and you know, it people are there for the golf course Not for the building. >> No nobody, you know, Donald Ross never stepped on a piece of property and said, "Boy, this is a great place for a clubhouse." Um so, you know, we've kind of figured that these were some manageable numbers that we could pick away at the you know, what are the obviously the envelope of the building is the most important. The roof is at least 25 years old. Um so, that to me we're starting to lose some shingles off of it. That's thing. The HVAC units are some of those are 20 to 25 years old. >> And and that's not the issue I have. The issue I have is 5 years ago or 10 years ago you should have started reserving money so you'd had it all. Well, we did. Why didn't you We didn't reserve it necessarily. We We've profited We've averaged around $130,000 in profit each year. So, that's kind of the way I looked at it. Is that was in our bank account. All right. So, going forward, do a better job of or a little bit more consistent Yeah. in laying out more consistently where you know, we're going to expect these >> Right. Okay. I agree with I just like to see the money before we spend it. Yeah. No problem. No, I understand what you're doing. Which I think it would be valuable and we've had this discussion not to speak out of school is that those to have some sort of visible retained earnings account so that we you know, is for emergencies. Yeah, just so we know where the you know, we we've gone through this but just so we know where the number is and a policy on how much we should save for rainy days like today and how much is for a future investment. That would be No problem. after all the budgets are wrapped up probably. Good summer conversations. That's okay. How much of this revenue came from the the front line, the car rentals. Um, as as far as this year? Yeah. Or how much are we budgeting from the car rentals? Um, I mean just to give a Yeah, what I'm trying to get at is is a comparison of the $60,000 payment of what kind of return on investment that gets for the golf course. Uh, they're about $317,000. Okay. And obviously that's that's kind of a it's a little bit more complex than that because you're also getting green fee dollars from that simply because obviously without golf carts there are some people that Yeah. can't can't or won't play. So. Right, but even looking at just the $300,000 that you're doing it's print money kind of. Uh, yeah, well, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. If I can give a piece of advice, anything that you can accessorize for those golf carts would be also appreciated. We don't expect fuzzy dice numbers. Right. Exactly. Yeah. >> [clears throat] [laughter] >> Any other questions? Question. I'm actually just interested in um in the expenditures, the fuel remains flat from '26 to '27. How? Black magic. Well, we put that this together. Things don't really really vary that much. Yeah, I wish it was that much. Um, so when you put this together only a month ago, so fortunately with this the golf course specifically, we'll be able to as we track along with fuel, once we end the year, balance it out and if we have to make it up we'll be Um, but it again, we put this together however many months ago, we seem to we always look pretty consistent with fuel consumption and cost. So, that's our the currently. And And I think it was also, if I'm just looking back real quickly, it it could have been one of those situations where we were over in our in future and past budgets and kind of brought that back a little bit more in line, and then of course, you know, the world has changed yet again. So. I think I agree with which department it was, but it there was another department we talked about that had a much more substantial gas line that was staying flat. I think we'll need to maybe the week before we finalize the budget, take a scan of where we are with the gas prices and make a decision then. Um maybe it's wishful thinking, but certainty, but um there may need to be sort of a department by If all of the departments did that figuring, I guess. Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah. Guys, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on the seat. Yeah. Anything else? I'm all set. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. I'm going to get back to scoring our league, so Well, Parks and Rec next, or do you want to go to >> to do the other the outside the others quickly first, and then we'll go to the Parks and Rec side just to get And then we'll let everybody So, included in our discussion tonight, and looking behind me and making sure that I explained So, a couple of groups that were included in tonight's discussion, uh the Paul Bunyan Snowmobile Club, and um the Fourth of July. Um let's we can do Snowmobile Club first. Annually, uh the city in the past, I believe this has gone it's done at its own meeting, but the city has contributed uh about $3,000 to the Paul Bunyan Snowmobile Club. They're located They have a clubhouse on Ohio Street. The Ohio Snowmobilers Club. I don't believe it's one of those. Um the club maintained over a variety of snowmobile trails both locally and and with with the ITS trails within the city. Uh unfortunately, they had another commitment and couldn't be here tonight, but I do have some information that uh the president of the club uh was willing to share. Um they did make some progress this year with the funds the city allowed us. Um this is uh him sharing this with me. We were able to rebuild our largest bridge, upgrade signage, buy a new brush saw, and some much-needed maintenance on equipment that was needed to allow us to groom this season. Was able to get Eric in the state of Maine to come and GPS our trail system, and he was impressed by the trails we have added access to restaurants and stored fuel. We gained a mile of trail this season also to connect us to uh the ITS trail in Hermon. Uh and they extend their thanks uh to the council uh and to the city and the residents and landowners for allowing the opportunity to winter the fun. Uh we do allow them each year with the standard landowner use agreement. Uh they make use of the uh old easy rail bed at the bottom of Essex Street Hill, which then connects them to their local network and ultimately to the ITS trails. Um so, that's the Paul Bunyan Snowmobile Club. Um I can certainly if there are specific questions, I'm more than happy to relay those back to Mike if there are any. Mike Reynolds is the gentleman who we have dealt with for a number of years with that club. They've been very good stewards of SSH Woods. We really we have no issues with them as far as the yearly landowner agreement that we share with them. And they're good stewards of the property. Questions? Yes, ma'am. Uh the 4th of July, recall um during our spring uh work last spring with budget and and discussion about 4th of July specifically. Uh their focus will be on uh managing the parade and uh from a city perspective, that's the most labor-intensive piece of the day as managing and organizing the parade. So, the 4th of July folks will continue to do that. And the fireworks have transitioned to uh a city function. We have been reaching out to folks for or for example to help us fund that. We've set aside um a specific funding funding line to take in those kinds of uh financial assistance and we'll continue to pursue those for the fireworks that are scheduled for July 4th. And certainly with the upcoming children's 50th, it's going to be a a a good event out on the waterfront. I have uh my observation consistently has been the fireworks on the waterfront are probably one of the largest attended single events that we still have on the waterfront. Uh specific head counts, couldn't begin to tell you, uh but certainly anecdotally from crowds that we see come to the waterfront each year for the fireworks. Uh certainly it's a popular event. Uh specifically on the Bangor side of the waterfront, and certainly as folks spread out, uh we have a several watch from the golf course and other uh spots around uh around the west side. So, that's kind of 4th of July update. That would be We don't anything definitive any promises from Roar. We're helping with it this year. >> They will they helped last year and I'm not definitive or anything tonight. I would be surprised if they didn't consistently support as they have in the past. So, we'll start having those conversations here in the next couple of weeks. Is there any larger event going to be down there in addition to what's usually there? I don't know of any larger events. My understanding from [snorts] the famous Stone Doctors and their crowd, they'll be down there in the afternoon with music. The parade and we've actually specifically to the parade from the beginning with MDOT had a conversation making sure the bridge was accessible for the route, but as far as anything extra, not that I'm aware of planned. I think >> thought maybe where it was getting close to 250 years that the symphony might be there cuz if you recall one year they went down as part of Alex's The symphony did go. I'm not aware that the symphony will be there. That certainly comes with another expense. So, yes, they'll so I I can't I don't know that that's happening this year. But you're right, yeah, that did happen before. Other questions? Just comment. Um, I'm concerned that I read the contract with the Downtown Partnership and they're responsible for the 4th of July parade. [clears throat] So, I find it curious that uh they never tell us anything that they're doing and I'm sure you don't have any contact with them. Specific to the parade or just in general? Specific to the parade. Specific to the Downtown Partnership? Yes. >> So, the county contacts we have with the Downtown Partnership including with the parade is ensuring that obviously their folks are aware of it. Um they promote it within their promotional activity. Um the parade has always been managed by the 4th of July Corporation. Uh so, specifically the details of the BBB contract again, give you any sort of comment specific to that. I can share with you this is certain but we had Right. the contact we had today. Well, I and and I'm not saying that it's not the way it should go. It's just that in reading the contract it's rather confusing to see that they're responsible for the parade and you're doing all the work. Well, I just yes and No, no. I'm just picking on you. It's easy to do so. >> [laughter] >> Anything else? I think another flip key is uh actually while I'm doing that, I've brought some arts and that propaganda that you can take away with you. Um I'm going to share with you uh this has been out for a little while but uh actually I'll just send it one way. Bring a summer brochure that's been out for a little while so certainly yes, some of the programs in there have happened but at least it gives you a sense of some of the things we're trying to trying to do down there everywhere in the city park and recreation. They're coming around. Oh, he's down on the other end. I'm sorry. That's all right. I'm sorry. To me this one is not over here. There's a lot of action in this corner of the So, parks and recreation as we've talked about before we're uh 10 20 2 nine different divisions within the general department side of of the operations. Organizationally, see uh the position of director. We have division supervisors that help manage the staff. We talked about the golf course already. And certainly within that operation uh parks and recreation a variety of full-time and seasonal employees. We have shared with council in the budget process. I believe you all were aware of. We rely very heavily on part-time and seasonal help. We're very fortunate to be able to have that resource. Um lifeguard hires seems to be going okay. Um I share that with you specifically because we've had challenges recently and we're not the only departments and organizations around the state and country. For a number of years we've challenged to find lifeguards, but we have several coming back. As well as in our maintenance areas and and summer camp child care areas. That's kind of the organizational setup at parks and rec. Some of the things, core functions, components and things we're hoping to work on for the fiscal year '27. Our recreation division is responsible for programs for the citizens here in the community for all ages. As I think we've shared with you before, upwards of 59 different programs that we offer through parks and recreation. Among those, we just finished the Kenai race. The Kenai race, as I think you I think shared with you a couple of council meetings ago, upwards of 880 paddlers, which is a bit of an increase for us over the last few years, 460 boats at a once. Extremely well this year. Wouldn't be able to pull it off without the assistance of a variety of city departments as well as a variety of search and rescue organizations. It's a big event for us and truly a city run event. Our adult softball program takes place at the Youth Street complex. We are 40 plus adult softball teams of various levels. We have more teams this year and we've been able to add some fall adult softball programming as well. The dance events that we finished up our spring Mother's Day event at Cross Insurance Center. Our annual Valentine event is very popular as well, also held at the Cross Insurance Center. Then again, we talked about the variety of programs for all ages. And it really runs from preschool the preschool open gym that we offer that can be a packed gym Monday, Wednesday, Friday mornings through to the packed bingo program that happened this afternoon. I will share with you and it's not part of the core functions, but our municipal swimming pools in the summer alluded to lifeguards. We had just over 14,000 visits at the Bango Aquatic Center last summer and about 1,400 visits at the Bacon Pool off of Pine Street. So certainly those facilities when they are open certainly get used especially because of the nice hot summer. Park maintenance is a big piece of what we do with Parks and Recreation. Um it's 30 parks, approximately 1,200 acres of parks and open space. The season in the spring we've been having currently is a challenge and we're trying to keep up with it as best we can. That also includes the coordinated management of 20 miles of trail network. That includes Round Top State Forest, Essex Woods, Brown Woods, Liffey Trail, and Presswoods. >> [clears throat] >> Pools that I allude to, that's a daily maintenance of those as well when they're open. Um we have five certified pool operators. Uh that is mandated by the state in order to treat the the pools with chemicals. So, five of us have that certification. Um the management and maintenance of the school grounds and athletic facilities. Specifically, I would remind and share with you tonight um that includes managing and staffing events at Cameron Stadium. Conversely, the school department does uh pay Parks and Rec Department specifically for that function, that school function. But, with the renovations recently at Cameron Stadium, uh it's a very popular amenity for the city. Um variety of school events, outside events um are hosted there. Uh those events are staffed and the facilities managed by Parks and Recreation staff as well as the other uh school athletic facilities. Uh the park rangers, um that's been a valuable program that we uh were funded for a couple of years ago, and it has more than paid dividends for us and a consistent, constant presence in our parks and open spaces. Um and certainly with some of the other um issues that we deal with in those spaces. And that includes Mansfield Stadium. Um Mansfield Stadium is a city facility uh staffed by um seasonal staff from Parks and Recreation. Um and is a significant amenity for the city and and thanks to the gift that it was. The waterfront, we um were able to get the docks in with the assistance of public works last week in managing those. Remember we've added a float dock in the river for those members of the council that had remembered that process when we started that. I It was literally an act of Congress, but we were able to get float dock out in the river to rent space on the docks by boat length. That's the most efficient way we've been able to do that. They can be very popular, especially on event nights on the waterfront. American Cruise Line agreement is managed by the Parks and Recreation Department. The first stop for American Cruise Line this year is June 1st. They'll have a neighbor of 25 stops. And last year that represented about 2400 passengers. That'll begin in 2025. 45 dock rentals, which I alluded to before. The Parks and Recreation Department is the city's liaison representative to waterfront concerts and events at the Maine Savings Amphitheater. That includes coordinating with police and fire and coordinating with them each year. And last season approximately 156,000 patrons that saw a show at the Maine Savings Amphitheater. Sovereign Arena We talked about Sovereign Arena in other meetings, but recall we serve three high schools at Sovereign Arena, Bangor High School, John Bapst, and Hampden Academy. The Maine Jr. Blackbears, the regional youth hockey organization, also has their home at Sovereign Arena. Our learn-to-skate programs three sessions of learn-to-skate through the Parks and Recreation Department and all three filled. It's a It's an excellent partnership relationship between our learn-to-skate program and the Maine Jr. Blackbears learn-to-play in that they get the basic skating skill that athletes that make the suit, we can transition them to the Black Bears program. Uh, the Park and Rec Center, as you all know, is the center of our operation. Our park maintenance um, staff works out of there. Um, it's where our administrative staff is and where I most of our programming happens there including our Kids Skate program. Um, and you get interesting enough, 250 building doubles of different types. We have become a very popular birthday party destination. And as we talked about in in the in the facility meetings, uh, essentially it's Sundays that we can offer that because of of space and time. We initially did uh, one session a a Sunday and because of wait list and demand, we often opened up a second afternoon session so that we can offer two on a Sunday and it they filled up. So, it's uh, it's a pretty easy place to have a birthday party to invite as many as you want. Some of the core functions of the the Parks and Rec Department, again, I mentioned Kids Skate is not listed here but I think we've all you're all familiar with our Kids Skate and before and after school program. Um, and it's continued to be full and we actually pivoted to a half a day today. The school program had a half a day today so, we had to work that out. The other piece I will mention to you here tonight our summer camp program. Registrations open that. You see a reference in this uh, information. We are still looking for one more site for our summer camp. Some things that we got accomplished. Um, first and foremost, the lighting replacement and infield rebuild and drainage improvements at Union Street complex. So, Union Street complex is our outdoor recreation programming facility on New Street next door before. Uh council approved funding in our last budget process to replace the lights on all three softball fields, uh improve the infields on the softball fields, and improve drainage around those fields. A significant investment and will will pay off for a number of years to come. Uh the lights specifically replaced lighting that was installed in 1985. So, uh certainly a worthwhile investment. And New Street, when it opens, is 7 days a week from the time it closes in October or November. Um our programming, uh John Bapst High School utilizes it. Um high school utilizes it for preseason fall activities. Eastern Maine Lacrosse, which is a partnership program that we have with them, utilizes it. Uh we have a home school group that fills it uh Tuesdays and Thursday mornings. Uh and then we have a variety of rentals, uh individual rentals out there as well. So, it is a busy place. We started a in land asset management program for parks and rec, and especially the park maintenance, um and trying to get that uh fully finalized. Um Eastern Maine Community College, uh I think I reported first before the relationship we built with them has been an ongoing and positive relationship, being able to use Johnson Field and their outdoor facilities at Eastern Maine Community College. Uh engineering is working on engineering design improvements at Cascade Park, um and that's a follow-up to the master plan that we had finished a year or so ago. We finalized the American Veterans policy, which I think we finished up in last spring. Continue to uh improve the lighting down here on the Kenduskeag Stream Trail. Um programming, uh 15,500 program registrations since January 1 of 2025. Um and you can You the number, of of them are residents. Our typical resident non-resident participation level is generally a 90/10 breakdown. And for many of our programs, we do institute a non-resident fee for those programs. Uh conversely, uh and what we'll talk about down at Kids Cove, um of 278 we started last year in the summer camp program. Um and again, about $30,000 in fee assistance to residents. Uh in addition to that, we participate in a variety personal. Talked about Kids Cove, we're pulling 130 plus kids. Uh we talked about the building rentals, community gardens, actually. fortunate in some of the places that we many of these we have have been able to repurpose what was something else. Uh specific community garden, that was a former naval reserve property that sat dormant for a number of years. And in 2010, 2011 had a group wanting to start a community garden. What started as 20-some-odd beds is now the number you have there in front of you, 270. Utilizing the inner property or a vacant property for a number of years. Um and again, we talked about uh the functions and the other the event permit management function for the city. If it's a city piece of city-owned property, whether it's a street or city-owned property, like to host an event, uh that process is managed through the park department. Um the event season has begun. Okay, we got three this weekend, but it just continues. Some things we're hoping to um work on and have goals for the coming year. I think it was what I was saying, we're going to be back to talk some more about the combined facility. Um the University of Maine students completed some concepts for the interpretive side of the Kenduskeag Stream Trail. We like to get We want to get that done. We want to get those signs in place. Uh and parallel to that, the Rotary Gateway and safety signage project uh we want to get finished as well. Um those are two significant investments on the Kenduskeag Stream Trail and it was initially identified in our master plan a number of years ago. Um we continue to partner and participate [clears throat] with the Greater Bangor region recreational economies for rural communities effort. Um in that effort essentially recognizes the recreational assets that the city has as well as other communities in the region and the economic um impact uh those amenities have. Uh it's been a good effort and and something we'll continue to work on. Uh finish up the National Park Service designation of Cascade Park. Um we're struggling and want to continue to try and get done we're having the monuments around the city the monument maintenance uh is a park and rec function. Uh the tricky part is finding somebody to do that. Uh the last time we did that uh it was a consultant group out of Lincoln Bill they no longer really do that kind of work. Uh we uh we had a started conversation with a group in Massachusetts and trying to get that done. Uh luckily we were able to get Paul Bunyan repainted recently so uh that should last us another 10 to 12 years. Uh the Park Recreation Harbor Advisory Committee is working on a review of our mission statement. Uh that hadn't been done since 2000 the year 2000. So, actually they're meeting tomorrow night they'll discuss this well. Hopefully we get that done. I'm going to keep going. Uh so, the budget itself, so I have a change to make you aware of and it's I believe good news. >> Good one. It's good news. So, uh somewhere along the way we missed uh revenue line in one of our divisions. So, actually uh we will be adding to your final draft that you look over in June, initial $143,900 in revenue. Um and that would be under um the charges for service source. Uh so, that'll be correction to make you aware of tonight's. Um it would be the the miscellaneous charges in our wreck general for programs. Um other than um couple of things here that uh to talk about with our operating budget. Um we try to stay fairly consistent each year. Certainly um personnel like everybody else that you've probably heard from thus far is probably one of the bigger contributors to increases. A couple of things to note specifically and we'll talk about it in some of the transitions that we're asking to make um with some of our seasonal temporary staff certainly contributed to that. And certainly I will make you aware that the public restroom, the cost of maintaining those uh continues to increase and that's reflected in the operating budget here. Um we're seeing replacement uh uh spencers, repairs to them on a consistent basis. So, there is an increase in our park maintenance budget to reflect the increased cost of the maintenance of the public restrooms. Um specifically, we seem to have the most issues on Broad Street, at the square at Harlow Street, and occasionally at Oak Park. Uh the unit at Cascade Park seems to have done well as far as those issues. And that would be uh consistent with our experience at Cascade Park over the years. We've always had portable restrooms at Cascade Park prior to the units that we have there now. We always rented them on a seasonal basis. So, those uh that piece and then a couple of positions that we're going to talk to here at the top of the hour in a minute. Um Correct. Go ahead. Yep. Those restrooms were a pilot program, correct? Those public restrooms were a pilot program that were funded uh with ARPA funds and now have been and now that that program has been been complete, they have been absorbed in the uh park maintenance division of Parks and Rec. Park maintenance division. Okay. Councilor First, you raised your hand up and then Councilor Mallar. Um how much [clears throat] does it cost, not just in dollars, but labor and time on these um this pilot program of restrooms? So, the additional cost that we have budgeted this year was an additional $100 working $100,000 to accommodate that. Um specifically, and I think I shared with you previously, um we were up to we spent in FY25 approximately $159,000 cleaning and repairs. And um we'll see how we end this current fiscal year. Um again probably the primary cleaning repairs are done by the contractor. Um we incorporated daily checks of the restrooms within our um trash pickup routine. We specifically uh dedicate an employee and a vehicle uh to citywide trash one of our facilities. So, that was incorporated there as well. Um if indeed it's something that the council would like to discuss further, we can provide some background information specific to the questions you have. But, I we did want to make sure you were one of the uh increases in our budget tonight has been additional funding to continue to maintain with a contractor the public restrooms. Mhm. And tell me now what you had a question. And then Council Dean. I didn't have a Oh, I thought your hand went up. I'm sorry. It probably did. It's the only time you haven't had a question. >> Yes, I know. I've been good for a change. I'm sorry, Dean. The night's not over. Okay. With respect to the restroom in Cascade Park, is that open all seasons including winter? >> Mhm. Is there any utilization or is it very limited in the winter? Mostly just used in the summer by tourists and Uh picture seekers and all that kind of stuff. So, the best way I I don't have a definitive number. My initial response would be likely during the spring, summer, and fall it's used more than in the winter. Are there open at Cascade Park during the winter every day? Yes, sure. Um we don't clear necessarily a path to it other than for us to do the routine maintenance as well as uh the contractor. Um so, my best answer to that tonight would be generally speaking it probably it's probably used more in the spring, summer and fall than it would be in the winter. Um we don't we don't click. With very little issue. Yeah, very little issue. You get very little Yeah. Council President. Thank you. Um did you say the FY25 was 150? The information we previously shared with you all I believe it was $159,000 in FY25. Is that this line is this in contractual services or other places? Is that is that the primary driver of that substantial increase? Primary driver, yeah. Certainly So the other driver we did have to within our recreation programs uh we have contracted services for a number of programs that we provide. So but the primary driver was indeed the additional funding requested for ongoing maintenance of the public restrooms. And just I'm trying to make sure I completely understand. What is in that on top of what was happening is the increase? In we had more incremental increases in some of the other contracted services in some of the other divisions. So each division there is a line for contracted services. Um our recreation programs we rely on outside uh contractors for a variety of programs that have a specialty. Um when we pay officials for different programs uh that comes out of that as well. So um we bump that up every once in a while. So those kinds of things. You're all set? Yes. Council first and then Council Foreman. Um I would like I don't know um I think that we went but I'd like to just bring it up that I'd like to see this subject come back up for discussion in workshop. It was a pilot program and it seems to be a lot of money especially where we need to be looking at the rec center. And um um I you know, it's it's obviously something we we should discuss, but in my opinion, it's, um, not exactly successful. And, um, and then other comment, I guess I just want to make some, uh, comments. Have we, uh, on Mansfield, uh, in Mansfield Park, have we sold advertising for banners and and, uh, or advertising on banners around the park in past? And is that something that worked or a revenue idea? What are what your thoughts on that? So, within Hayford Park, uh, so Mansfield was Mansfield Stadium specifically, um, the the gift came with some specific requests. That's what I thought, cuz I was thinking, why haven't we? And that's what I was going to >> So, uh, to to finish the statement, the gift of Mansfield Stadium came with some specific requests, um, that it be maintained for the youth of the city and for the league, senior league, high school activity, and that we refrain from that selling selling the space. Conversely, we, um, within Sawyer Arena, do a split agreement with the Maine Mariners Black Bears to sell advertising on the dasher. Uh, I will share with you, and again, I believe Councilman might have been on the council at the time, we thought we had an opportunity to, um, do a lease agreement with a cell tower company that would have provided a consistent lease payment revenue. Um, it did not materialize. Uh, Hayford Park was deeded to the city through the transition of Dow Air Force Base, and came with some specific, uh, parameters from the Air Force Base. So, that didn't materialize, either. Uh, PenAir the PenAir Flight Center, again, a with some of similar products. And last to piggyback on that for um money's so that we can get our new rec center and to kind of piggyback on Council Leonard's comment what about advertising with wraps on the golf carts for sponsored advertising? So remember we do have an agreement for that and that's included proceeds from that agreement are included in the golf course revenue with the first. Um So they monopolize all they're the They haven't monopolized it but certainly there's other options close. I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off. Um so to answer your question there's opportunities for advertising continues to be advertising at the golf course you'll see that on tee markers. Uh the first has an agreement for the golf course but that doesn't necessarily monopolize other opportunities at the golf course and Robin his staff is always open to discussions about potential arrangements with whomever. Um Pepsi for example has done we've done an arrangement with Pepsi for the tee markers. So yeah the golf course is one of the places that that opportunity exists. Thank you. Council Sloan Yes. Um back to the public restrooms um how many are there in the city? Four of them. So there are four placed we had funding in the pilot include up six two we have not put in use yet our intent unless would be to try one at Essex Woods given the dog park and the trails and we get asked often about another possibility at the city forest. Uh currently there is one uh, two two pit toilets at City Forest near the boardwalk. And how long have they been in place? This is the third summer for them, I believe. And can you >> And I will stand corrected if I know somebody else remembers, but I believe it's the third summer. Can you speak to the the positives and the negatives of these? Like I know there was, you know, a problem that those were intended to solve, but I guess my question is have they created more problems than they've solved? So I can answer for you um, the logic behind placing them and uh, the benefit that was intended given the pilot, and then I can expand upon some of the issues that we've been seeing if that. This again, the logic when we talked about placing these and it was uh, agreement that we try this pilot program given the feedback that we were hearing uh, from residents, businesses downtown specifically, um, about having public restrooms in our concern areas in the city. Recall that we had three different public forums. We had uh, we discussed a variety of locations and arrived at where they are placed. Um, as far as uh, anecdotally if if downtown businesses are seeing less traffic within their businesses, which part of the logic was trying to eliminate uh, the daily traffic in and out of businesses or looking for public restrooms. Um, I don't know specifically one way or the other. Um, as I alluded to as far as the challenges, um, we have had replacing uh dispensers, fixing doors, replacing and cleaning up uh debris left behind, trash left behind both in the unit and in the tanks. Um just a general labor intensiveness of cleaning them as regularly as they have been. So, the perception of whether they've been beneficial or not uh is is not necessarily for us to judge other than to tell you that uh we are increasing our funding request to address some issues that we are seeing in them. Um it might be a conversation with the downtown businesses and downtown partnership. If the logic that we intended and the intent we had when we tried the pilot is truly paying dividends, uh that might be a better conversation to have with that with that group specifically. Um much your question about Cascade, we monitor them as often as we do. Uh certainly uh given the uh what we hear the cleanings certainly need to happen because of the use they're getting. Okay, thank you. All right, Ramona. [clears throat] Um I just wanted to uh I I I understand that uh that guys have heavy driver for the cost base for uh contractual services. And and then many years ago, I'm going to try to remember all the uh points that were brought up. Obviously, the first one that you just mentioned, Tracy, was um a lot of the downtown businesses were very uh uh agitated by not having any public restrooms because then their businesses became the public restrooms. And that wasn't really fair to those downtown businesses that provided that. Uh uh essentially that public service which uh is it's not necessarily right and when a city grows to a certain size it does get to a point where we do need to have public restrooms. So going from zero to having say five now or is it more than that? We have four place currently. And and then the the transit center. Yes. If I may just please yes. Um I addition to what we already talked about, remember we do make the harbor master building available uh when we have a park ranger on duty so we'll talk about that here in a minute. That is seven days a week. Uh it is not available 24 hours a day. We do open and close it and we post hours for that. In addition to that um there are restrooms in the service building from the storm water overflow tank that was installed a number of years ago along the waterfront path and the same applies to that facility. Uh it is uh managed by the park ranger on daily basis open and closed uh when a ranger is on duty. So in addition to those. Uh thank you that very it's always good to have more sanitation services in the city and that and that actually gets to my next point which is having more access to sanitation services, public restrooms that decreases the efficiency of preventable diseases to be transmitted from one person to another and that's actually something my opinion you can't really put a price tag on. There are a lot of I mean there is a spike increase of similar diseases that you would see among the Ganges River in India in the United States because of our issues that a lot of people have not only accessing sanitation but especially those on the poverty spectrum as well and so if people in that category didn't have that public accessible sanitation ability, where they going to relieve themselves? And wherever they can is going to be the answer. And whenever that ends up being the solution, then that means more human beings are going to be exposed to more urine, feces, which is going to transmit these diseases. And diseases do not care what your economic class is, by the way. Diseases are going to infect you no matter what. So, the fewer transmissions of preventable diseases that we can have is really important to me. So, and I hope it's important to most people. But, having these bathrooms, they are Think of it as the front line of reducing a lot of these transmittable diseases that are completely preventable. So, I I get that it's a costing increase, but I'd rather have that cost there as opposed to the cost being thrown to emergency rooms, where they have to treat a disease that literally could have been completely prevented by just having a public bathroom. All right, you may. I think one component of this conversation should also be that if we are going to keep them, is the level of cleaning that we're currently paying for sufficient to make them usable by the public we intended to serve. And I Correct me if I'm wrong, Tracy, but your budget assumes the current level of cleaning. And that's once a day, six days a week? >> Six days a week, contractors four days, and then we supplement that with our trash trash run. Because I think what we hear anecdotally is that people are not interested in using those bathrooms for their intended purpose because of their level of cleanliness. So, if we're interested in continuing to support that concept that having it be effective, we may want to consider greater investment in the cleaning. Also, again, >> The other thing that isn't in this figure is that the ambassadors also clean the ones that are in their perimeter after the wash down, they go and they clean the perimeter of the I You know, because of the the wash out, I've heard that they go and they clean up around the area cuz things are washed out. The ones they dry, they're kind of like stuck around the bottom. So, that's another another person that's actually going and working on those that we're not budgeting into this. It's coming out of their budget. So, I specifically that has been shared with us as far as that activity, um us being Park Right specifically and or I don't know if they're here here as well. So, I can't speak to the specifics of that. Uh I'm not aware one way or the other what the ambassadors are paying specifically attention to those restrooms. It very well could be happening, but I'm just not aware of the specifics of that. That's what I think. Um I think also there's been a lot of um a lot of reporting at least feedback to me and that I've seen and I I did have a meeting today with the Downtown Partnership. It's just not the cleanliness, it's the safety that people don't feel comfortable or safe to go in them. So, um when we bring this up at another time, maybe we can talk about what we do have for public restrooms or what we can do differently to um to satisfy the need. We do need our public and um you know, how we can make it better. Council back and then Council one. I did the clarification question for the increase. You mentioned the the cost, you know, directly to the bathroom. Did you say it was 100,000 or 130,000? 100 Actually, 198,000. So, roughly 100,000. Roughly 100,000. Okay. Uh just two additional things, which was Correct me if I'm wrong, Tracy. I believe uh these restrooms can be transported to other locations. Is Okay. So, these were modeled after a concept that had been tried in Portland. Uh so, to specifically your point, they are sitting on a concrete slab. And that was part of the logic for for the pilot nature of it. And that indeed if they need to be moved, they could be. So, I add to to that point, if this Council were amenable to switching up the location for certain places. Like I I I'm open to that concept. That absolutely. If anything though, I to to your point regarding especially in the the city forest. I mean, that one bathroom there is I I mean, I'm just being real. I don't use it. And I think that uh having another bathroom there would be tremendous, but also finding another home for that that sixth one would be I think really advantageous in terms of potentially bringing down the foot traffic of these other restrooms as well. So, I maybe that will be a conversation we want to have just in general with with the bathroom. How about I put this on the next develop workshop for more discussion? Does that make sense? Mhm. Okay. I would just say for that that conversation, what I'd be interested in is just data. You know I mean, what has been the change in you know, public urination. The other public feces, you name it. Uh that was what it was supposed to you know, combat. Uh but also it'd be interesting to see, you know, the number of SeeClickFixes that have come in about the specific behavioral issues around it and if we can pull together to just really look at it through that lens. Um cuz I know that I mean there's there's everyone's got an anecdotal story about this is bad, that's bad, but data is going to tell the story. That's what I want to see. Okay. Um so you said we four are deployed. Correct. And we have two more? We do. So we're paying for those, but they're not deployed? They have So we paid for them. They're So we paid for six to be built. Without paying anything more for them, uh they're in storage. Uh so there's no co- additional cost for them just to sit at Parks and Rec. Uh they've been paid for, they're built. Um we held off on additional locations to see how these four work. Um so if the decision is to swap out one for another, we purposely kept two back initially. They're not costing us anything, they're just sitting at Parks and Rec in storage. So if they were deployed, it would cost us more in maintenance costs then. Uh potentially. I don't I would use Cascade as the example. Uh Cascade uh it's generally cleaned frequently. Um the cleaning is at frequency that we would need um at if we did deploy them. Uh it would just be minimal compared to what we've been doing so far. If this is going to be moved to the next Gov Ops for further discussion, we need to get moving along because we do have a hard stop. School Committee's coming in right after us, so Walk in. if we could proceed with I just have a couple pieces left. So, the last the well, we already talked about you will see there we'd like to transition our seasonal park ranger to permanent position. Um the park ranger program has been very popular and the seasonal park ranger has stayed stayed through the winter season which allowed us to have uh coverage during the winter uh at least 6 days a week. Um what we're finding is depending upon snow cover and generally speaking our trails specifically getting used year round. So, having that additional park ranger uh permanently year round will be uh a benefit for even eyes and ears patrolling our our social spaces. Uh we'll be able to transition what we've dedicated in February payroll to uh from a permanent payroll to help offset costs to add. And again, this is a position we already have. So, we're just transitioning one or two permanent. Same holds true for the recreation sports coordinator. A couple of things that we've alluded to already. Uh we've got three large programs right now that are being managed amongst all the other programs by one recreation program. I will briefly uh go back to uh the matter of how we had a number of years ago for what the parks and recreation department accomplishes with the staff we have. Um we pull off quite a bit. So, this position has been a part-time position for us. We'd like to transition it as well to uh a permanent position uh to manage what we're already operating and then be able to add adult or youth sports programming, athletic programming that folks are looking for in the community. And currently, we just don't have the staff to be able to pull that off. And again, the intent would be to transition some temporary payroll funding into the permanent payroll line to help us. Absolutely. Just very quickly, do you have the facility to support full-time? So, >> coordinator? Because I know you're you're limited right now We're limited right now. Um that limit won't change. This is to transition what we're trying to do already with what we have. Uh and we'll just continue to do what we do as far as space needs. For example, uh Johnson Jamie Streeter Community Center has been doing a lot of open gyms out there for both pickleball and um basketball. Uh we do a hodgepodge of temporary uh staffing for that. Um if space permits, we'll be able to utilize sometime our gym right. As I already alluded to, we used to do the cross and adult softball if utilizing the industry complex. So, certainly it would be a start to be able to do what we do plus some. Capital improvements. Um in general, we have been making very consistent active use of our facilities master plan and plan as laid out in there many years ago. The improvement program you have in front of you um continues to do that and we come back to some projects uh that we've had funding for and um and then more than we thought it would. Um it's adding vehicles. It's replacing some vehicles. Our zero-turn mowers, we try those are the our are really the machine that we We a lot with. We travel those around the city. Um we're replacing one of those every year. Uh the vehicle that you're seeing replacing two of those vehicles and they were 10 years old. Um the robotic mowers buy one of the versus going all in. Uh there might be some efficiency uh in that being able to especially with our athletic fields being able to use robotic mowers. Um Resurfacing of Panco pools. Uh we had hoped to do both pools a couple of years ago. Came in quite a bit more than we anticipated. So we ended up just doing the Daken pool. [snorts] Uh the Panco pool has not been resurfaced since it opened in 2004. Uh it's getting time to do that. We'd like to start picking away at the fences and backstops at Union Street. Those are original to its opening in 1989. Uh the parking lot walkway improvements, that was an estimate in our feasibility study. That's a community garden. The asphalt that's there and the pathways are original to when the neighbor reserve property was there. Um Looking at expanding doing a study to expand the parking at um the Royal Paris City Forest. Uh the painter, much like um the uh mower, there's an opportunity for some efficiency improvements there. Starting to look at uh leasing equipment, turf equipment at Mansfield Stadium, similar to what we do with the golf course. Uh but we'll push that out another year. Uh the fiber on the waterfront is to connect uh where we have fiber end essentially at dock five and extend it all the way down to the Bear Paving building. Um we'll be able to offer uh Wi-Fi throughout. We'll be able to connect cameras throughout. Currently, we're trying to add cameras at the Eric Paving end, which is the Dutton Street end. Uh we use line of sight technology right now, which can be a bit problematic. The fiber is a a better technology and more uh dependable technology to be able to do that. That would be extending fiber throughout the waterfront. Um the replacement of the play structure Cole Park. Uh again, they're getting back on that rotation of replacing and um adding what we refer to often as tot lots. We need to do that now. That was identified in our um master plan as what we're lacking around the city in our play structures. Currently, we've done five to 12 structures. Uh we're trying to um add two to four structures to those as well. I kind of quickly went through it, trying to be cognizant of the hard stop of the hard stop that was mentioned by the council. Councilor Mel, two quick questions. The uh $400,000 for the bank pool, I understand why it's coming up now, but shouldn't we have been reserving it as we went along? So, we would identify um So, to answer your question about setting aside X amount, um I I I don't know why we did or did not, but so what we do now is much like we talked about before. Um that's how it's an outsource where we incrementally do the fence, for example. We had hoped to be able to do it all the first five, but clearly didn't come off. So, um this is about the lifespan of those surfaces. So, Right. >> In hindsight, I think better to set aside a little bit at a time. And also, that goes for the utility vehicles. I see we have that in there twice. $60,000 a year for 2 years. To replace what we already have in there. >> Right. Why isn't it included in one item? Because they're both utility vehicles. You're doing it specifically by vehicle number, or you you don't combine them in one group? We do I I think I answered both. We don't replace four utility vehicles at once without parts of the impact of that over But basically, you're you're replacing two and taking Actually, you're replacing three cuz you're getting 60,000 reserve for another year. Why didn't you do it before this? And it's not your fault, but I'm just saying we've got to plan better because we don't need to hit the taxpayer all in one year with four vehicles. I wonder too if that might be a good place where a policy could exist. Like we have a policy Well, we have an ordinance and then a policy about unassigned fund balance and what the target is. I mean, it might be helpful to have some guidance about how what the gravity or scope of a capital item um would need to be where council would expect us to be yearly planning for it versus doing it in one year. I don't know if it's 300,000 or 500,000. Um but but once we knew the benchmark, it would be easy to implement. Councilman Uh about the play structure, I guess my first question is is has our grant writer looked in any opportunities for uh grant? Cuz I know there's a lot out there for play structures and community needs. Is that something that we've explored? So, in the past, we had uh been able to utilize community development block grant funding for many of the neighborhoods. So, Cole Park would indeed qualify as as that in addition to grant funding. Often, Land and Water Conservation Fund is used for play structure replacement. Uh the challenge with that particular grant of the grants is we got the cash up front to get reimbursed. So, yes, in general terms, there are certainly other funding opportunities we can try to pursue in the uh, the funding from that. But, most probably the closest prime example would be able to utilize CDBG money for that replacement. And CDBG, it qualifies for that. Sure. I mean, I'm thinking more in terms of like I just know those, especially private grants, too, like that's a big thing. >> sure. I'll set up the other question I had about that. Kind of talk about planning for the future. I know that the master Parks and Rec master plan had called for Council to establish a revolving fund for this. Uh, they had the 150,000 a year they said Council should aim towards this. And then you know, I'm just wondering if maybe that's a conversation we should be having at some point, you know, um, you know, so that it doesn't have to constantly be a ask each year for each one, but they give you a fund that to work out of for maintenance and stuff. >> Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Councilwoman and Council Carson. Uh, I assume the fiber is going to be buried. Uh, Yeah, we'll try to bury it. We actually started that um, recently. Uh, yeah, the intent will be to bury it. Um, we're burying degrees of success as well in the ground. But, but uh, so so my follow-up question that is how close is it to the actual like banks of the river? So, it wouldn't be that. It would essentially follow, try to be as short distance as possible between points. So, air paving, [snorts] we have a small s- CSO shed. Beyond that, the service building we just referenced, straight line to that, and then a straight line trying to connect what we already have in existence. Okay. And the only reason I bring this this up is that my concern is just flooding. Uh, so I I I assume you're doing all the precautions for for that. Okay. Council Carson. Thank you. Um, the pool rate How is that? We need that immediately. How much longer that last? What's the urgency on that? The urgency is we had to have the various assessments when we were clearly short of trying to build them at once, so we chose Dagon first because of its age and the last time we did it. The best answer urgency, um how much longer do we want to hold? So, it's the original surface to 2004, the eight-week facility, um withstands the winter. Um it's there so that we can use that funding to go with what we already have left. Try to get it done. Uh it's pretty tight window on to get that done. It's probably a fall project anyway. So, could we go another summer or two? It's I don't want to say definitively and then have to come back to you and say we need it now type thing. So, we're trying to plan and ensure that we are maintaining the facility as long as we possibly can. I mean, the surface of it. It is the original surface. Starting to crack, starting to show signs of wear. So, yeah, I just It is a fantastic amenity for us to have. It's very unique with the features and the deck. Um second question is uh on the new fiber. Is that something that could wait a year? Um if we have to start making choices, that's one thing that we can talk about. What we're challenged with right now, again, is trying to make the connectivity. We're doing the best we can. So, that assumes that we're able to have it connected one end to the other. But, I get your question. Thank you. Thank you. Last question, Councilman I was going sort of ask the same question about the the party lot of the community garden, but I guess I would just say in general kind of the same line of thinking like there's a lot of big stuff in this year and then next year is significantly lower. Like so I'm just you know my line of thinking is like that like what can be put off and I know that you know like put things off for so long, but also are there going to be other things like are you going to you know as more things come up you going to fill in 2028, 2029 and like What for sure. So like Yeah. We don't [clears throat] we're not seeing the full picture on that yet, right? So like >> [laughter] >> Find a balance. >> Yeah, yeah. I hope there's nothing. But yeah, I'm assuming like that's not the full picture so we're not it's not going to be that much of a surprise this year. We're going to be back. Anyone's comments? Director of the budget. I think I have shared with you all Thank you very much. You are all welcome. Thanks for the work. Look forward to All right. Thank you. I guess we better We better adjourn.