Bangor infrastructure panel backs downtown snow zones, tree donations, street renamings

[1:13] Speaker A (unidentified): Good evening everyone. Tonight is the regularly scheduled infrastructure committee meeting. It is September 21st and it is 6:26. And the first business of all day tonight will be to replace that committee member that's not in the committee tonight. And I'd like to as Councilor Mallar [1:40] Wayne Mallar: Yes, am I already on the committee? No, I don't, I thought I was. Okay, thank you. I will, thank you. [1:48] Speaker A (unidentified): thank you i'll second that the committee members that are present tonight are councillor dean councillor beck councillor lemon has stepped out i expect that he won't return councilman will be this year's decision councilman will be joining us and first item up tonight i believe will be the downtown snow for the new boat plan [2:21] Speaker C (unidentified): Hello, I've got David, Director of Engineers. So most of these are actually for other folks to talk about. So downtown snow removal plan is Anya Colette and David T. Long from Public Works here to chat about that if I need to, but I think only is going to kick it off and [2:37] Unidentified speaker (Planning staff): there are any questions we can. So Planning initiated this proposal because this came from our public outreach committee and we worked with Public Works to develop this plan. But basically one of the issues we've heard about from several people is with snow removal downtown, there's, there's issues with parking being banned for several days at a time, and it can impact residents and businesses. And one of the solutions that came out of that outreach was splitting downtown into zones. So parking would be banned in one zone while so much food there, and people can park in the other and vice versa. So Public Works drafted a map of how that would look, what zone boundaries would be. That was the map included in the packet. And I think, I don't know if the signs are out yet, the signs could be placed around downtown filling you know which street they're in which zones [3:33] Unidentified speaker (Public Works Director): Yeah, Director Works, the signs are not out yet. We're waiting for this meeting to happen to get you guys approval or thoughts on this process. When we should get the approval we'll have the signs made and we'll get them before the personnel falls. Then the 60 to 80 signs that we'll be putting up, I just like to emphasize the emphasis is on west or east and not red or green. So it'll be two triggers for people to be able to look and see a color or read the word west and east zone on what's going to have restricted parking for that night. [4:05] Unidentified speaker (Planning staff): And David Warren will be doing a public outreach campaign about, you know, the new system and letting people know ahead of the storms, you know, which zone to park in and what not. Are there any questions on that? [4:19] Speaker A (unidentified): This comes with any questions, comes with that? Sure. [4:22] Michael Beck: Sure. I guess as part of the education process, two things. One, is it possible to do something on the radio as well? I know before that they were having different staff members go down and be on the radio and talk about things in the city. I mean, this being a big change, is it possible to get something out through the radio that way? And then the other suggestion was, can we do something on the website to have it, you know, like banglormaine.gov slash snow removal or downtown snow removal plan or something so that we can point people [4:51] Unidentified speaker (Public Works Director): to the map quickly and easily we have a snow section on our web page and just for everybody's knowledge here i'm getting ready to do a podcast and first podcast is going to be on paving second is going to be on winter operations and part of the zoning will be part of that podcast we can [5:09] Unidentified speaker (Planning staff): definitely talk to you more about the radio story and making things accessible [5:15] Speaker A (unidentified): please on the website any [5:19] Joseph Leonard: other questions counselor a very specific question regarding franklin street and just how it like what was the decision behind like having it really [5:29] Unidentified speaker (Public Works Director): join out to one-way street okay simple answer it's just direction to travel and how that [5:40] Joseph Leonard: work so okay and the only reason i ask is because for the most part that the district is fairly like standard like pretty easy to understand i it was a creek was the boundary basically east and west of the creek so yeah and i'm and i'm sure you guys are going to be doing a decent job getting psas out there i can already tell though that there are going to be citizens that are going to say oh i thought the east was okay to park this evening so i guess my question is like how are we going to reduce the amount of issues that we'll have with citizens that just are still new to the process and they're trying to understand the [6:29] Unidentified speaker (Public Works Director): New parking requirements. Well, we've made those efforts already. I mailed out 18,000 mailers to get people to sign up for alerts and notifications, and 500 people have signed up for it out of 18,000. So if we get more of a push for people to sign up and get those notifications, they'll know what's what's happening. Dave Warren does a good job put stuff out. I put stuff as a splash screen on my website, and the amount of signs we're going to put up, you know, will clearly define the street as a western and east zone, and you also have that sign out here in [7:04] Joseph Leonard: the triangle i think a lot of people see that but they do and i definitely hear from my circle of a community that like some of them have received those mailers and i just want us to be prepared for citizens that are going to be agitated that 's all i'm really putting out there because it doesn't matter how good our psas are someone is going to not hear [7:31] Unidentified speaker (Planning staff): the news. Well, yeah, it's hard these days, especially like so many ways, it's almost like it's a good thing and a bad thing, the number we find out about things, but not everybody pays into all the things [7:42] Unidentified speaker (Public Works Director): but we'll try our best. Yeah, I guess that's really all I have on this. Once we learn the boundaries [7:52] Susan Deane: and we are familiar with east and west zoning, would there be any other implications for using these zones other than snow removal? Is it anything that we would, you know, maybe just come to think of the city split like that so that it's not so foreign, or is it [8:10] Unidentified speaker (Public Works Director): only really for snow removal? Think of any other. The inception is snow removal, but I mean, sky's the limit on what you could use it for, different things that are going [8:18] Susan Deane: on. So I just feel like we'll probably forget about it once the spring comes, and then yeah, [8:23] Unidentified speaker (Public Works Director): we'll have to have another PSA and make sure people know again that parking bans are coming. Yeah, we will have the signs that they're telling on the streets, this will be there. Yes, they're just little signs we'll go on existing signposts already, so then that's not, we're going to go put up and take down and put up and take down, they'll be they'll be there [8:42] Joseph Leonard: there. I don't know, four by six sides, so maybe during parades we would say you could park on [8:49] Susan Deane: the east side or the west side, potentially there could be some other, you know, uses, actually. Well, [8:55] Unidentified speaker (Planning staff): we won't know until we get there. Very [9:00] Speaker A (unidentified): good. Well, thank you for that information. Anyone else have any questions or comments? Thank [9:08] Unidentified speaker (Public Works Director): you. Podcasting. Very good. Got the idea from Today's Creek. Thank you. [9:17] Speaker A (unidentified): Next on the agenda, we have the Prentice Wood Forest Management Plan. [9:22] Speaker C (unidentified): I don't have to do anything, so I'm just going to bring Ben up so he can go over it. [9:30] Speaker A (unidentified): David says join us still. Good evening. [9:38] Joseph Leonard: We're going to talk this evening about a few forest management plans. The first one I will touch on is a forest management plan for Prentiss Woods. For those of you who are in Maine and be familiar with the layout of Prentiss Woods, it is located adjacent to Bangor High School on the north side of Grandview Avenue. In our research within the forestry division, the last time a forest management plan was prepared and put into practice was in 1965 by my predecessor, Roland Perry. Since then, it has been a tandem effort by Parks and Recreation and Public Works 403 Division to manage the parcel for a number of goals. goals. Those six management objectives remain fairly consistent throughout Parks and Rec's properties that have large forested acreage. Prentice Woods in total has 25 acres proper within the bounds described and belonging to Parks and Rec. However, locally and a lot of the trails actually go on to school department property part of the high school there's a large red pine plantation so this forest management plan also includes those forested acreages since they are known to be part of apprentice woods that brings it up to 40 acres for apprentice woods and other forested properties we have the same six management objectives given to us and worked up with Parks and Recreation Director Tracy Lillet and his staff. And those six objectives are to provide safe recreational opportunities for the citizens of Bangor, improve tree quality and forest health, protect local waters, cultural artifacts and wildlife habitats, demonstrate good forest management, provide educational opportunities and improve access. access. We've laid out a number of goals within this particular plan as ways to enhance the property and we'll work in tandem with Parks and Recreation to source funding and split up the work efforts we have laid out in order to manage the forest. Do we have any questions? [12:25] Speaker A (unidentified): I guess it's just informational at this point. You don't need anything from us. No. [12:30] Joseph Leonard: And I think you're up next as well. Yes, in addition to Apprentice Woods, we are moving on to Brown Woods, which is also a Parks and Recreation property managed in tandem with the Forestry Division of Earth. Brownwood is located about midway on Ohio Street just past Vincent Road outbound. It shares the same six management objectives just the same as other forested properties that Parkland Rec and Forestry Division manages. Brown Woods is, plucked from mine, at 25 acres and we were able to find all four corner pins and pretty stout boundary evidence on the properties. We have a very good idea of where the property lines lie within that the recommendations for Brown Woods would involve kind of rehabbing the parking lot and doing some trail and infrastructure improvement within the interior of Brown Woods and typically both Brown Woods and Prentice Woods we are not interested in commercial timber management. They're recreational properties. We are just merely going to manage the forest for aesthetics, forest health, and then the safety of recreators. [14:05] Speaker A (unidentified): Any questions? I have a question. I didn't see any estimated cost. Is it too early to know? Do we [14:15] Joseph Leonard: know it is too early to know until we have developed a work plan but I have not yet prepared an estimate because the work we do with Parks and Rec is already part of my existing in-house payroll budget I don't have it's made for these improvements [Speaker A (unidentified): Okay we] have some free donations yes welcome in again I have a number of free donations to speak about this evening the first free donation I'm going to speak about is a joint donation from Maine Autobahn and a local non-profit Bangor Beautiful this proposal The proposal for donation was made possible by the Maine Forest Service Project Canopy Grant Program. The grant program also allowed the City of Bangor to develop a one-acre tree nursery on the Fensal Road. Funds from the Project Canopy Grant were used to construct that tree nursery out on the Fensal Road, and that will be staffed by volunteers. Years and we have a number of our trees within that nursery waiting to be out planted this fall for this particular planting donation proposal. Main Audubon and Bangor Beautiful is proposing the donation and installation labor of 25 trees. These 25 trees will be going within in Abbott Square parking lot where those Bangor Farmers Market is being held. Of those 25 trees the planting proposal included 10 trees within the center medians of the Abbott Square parking lot. As of the time of this meeting the city does not have funds to install those center medians. Currently what is in place now is just a paved parking lot with painted dividers as a median with flight posts. The proposal from Bangor Beautiful was to develop a raised median which we could plant at this time. City departments and divisions do not have the funds allocated to create those obedience so these tree donations will be held at the city nursery until funding for that particular project has been found. So the total value of those 25 trees is three thousand one hundred and forty dollars [17:17] Michael Beck: In the event that you're unable to find the punch quality trees you can find a location [17:23] Joseph Leonard: for them? Yes. Yeah we do a number of about planting I believe this fall we're planting a little over 70 trees and then in the spring time closer to 50 or 60. [17:41] Speaker A (unidentified): Any other questions? [17:44] Susan Deane: When we lose a tree in a neighborhood does the property owner have any input as to what kind of [17:51] Joseph Leonard: tree is replaced? Yes typically if the property owner has interests I provide them with an approved planting list. Our planning division and my 403 technician has prepared a suggested replanting list and this replanting list contains everything from perennial shrubs flowers grasses all the way up to large canopy trees and this list is prepared in a way where we are able to replant and have suggestions from residents that would have us installing a right tree in a right place. I'm sure we're all familiar with a very large tree somewhere it probably should not be planted and has been pruned such that it does not have an appropriate shape [18:44] Speaker A (unidentified): Thank you. Thank you do you need an action for us to accept? Do I have a motion? So moved. Second? Any doubt? Very good. Motion to accept the tree donation. We'll fund you. We have a couple more tree donations to talk about. Sorry about that. [19:26] Joseph Leonard: The second tree donation is also from Maine Audubon. These extra three trees will be housed within the nursery until we find a suitable location to outplant them. These three trees have a value of 790 dollars. Do [19:45] Speaker A (unidentified): we need a motion to accept these processes so long second [19:52] Joseph Leonard: we do this has been a very busy fall for suggested tree donations. City of Angora Forestry Division were contacted by Retree US. They are a non-profit pretty much orchard planting group who has reached out to Fruit Street School and they have come up with an agreement with Principal Richard Fournier and an orchard caretaker, one of the teachers Laura Otis, and have a proposal to plant ten fruit bearing trees and then care for those fruit bearing trees. In addition to the cost for the trees, the Retree US has also offered a yearly maintenance stipend for us to care for those trees. per year for supplies and other efforts to care for those trees. [21:02] Speaker A (unidentified): To accept these as well as the domain. Okay, I'm sorry. [21:09] Susan Deane: there's a it says two thousand is that for two years before [21:20] Speaker A (unidentified): just verify [21:23] Joseph Leonard: that retreat as far as the yearly maintenance [21:28] Susan Deane: yes [21:36] Michael Beck: I'm so glad what did you do just out of curiosity the fruit that these trees bear do they just give it to the kids in the school one days or what do they do with the fruit that I actually [21:46] Joseph Leonard: do not know this was more or less something that was organized through Fruit Street School and then they reached out to Forestry Division personal supplies and I notified them that it did need to go to infrastructure prior to being accepted in the city any [22:07] Speaker A (unidentified): other questions so [Wayne Mallar: I'm actually] I don't know if that's for one year or two years and I don't see anything see oh it says offers a yearly maintenance type and one thousand but it doesn't clarify in that commentary [23:08] Speaker C (unidentified): area [23:09] Unidentified speaker (Planning staff): So we're bringing a proposal to council that it be city policy that we accept maintenance of fire ponds and subdivisions where a public roadway is also proposed and we did discuss this extensively with staff and our reason is that for multiple reasons these fire ponds need to be constructed in a certain way and if they're not maintained long term that can pose a risk to people living in that subdivision and on top of that if something were to happen to these homes it could increase insurance rates for people in the rest of the city, and a lot of times these homeowners associations or developers themselves don't have the expertise to maintain these over time. And fire advise that if they are constructed properly, which they should be because fire is going to have to inspect things anyway, the maintenance needs should be pretty low long term. It shouldn't cost a lot, and so they didn't, they thought they could cover maintenance out of their regular budget, and we don't really see, you know, a ton of these subdivisions going in anyway. So, and the other thing too is that when somebody's on public water and they have to build a new hydrant, the city accepts, I mean, the responsibility for those hydrants as well. So it would kind of be a similar situation just in the rural area. We did have the, and I brought it to you before, for the open space for the TNT rural sludge subdivision on Pushout Road. They are constructing a fire pond on the open space that was being deeded to the city, and they requested that the city take care of the maintenance on that fire pond long term. So this policy did affect that section. Do you want to add anything to that? [25:11] Speaker C (unidentified): I mean, you talked about we met with fire safety, they're like, they're on board with this, and I think same with our stormwater manager and engineering. So yeah, that's the same policy [25:25] Unidentified speaker (Planning staff): that we use for stormwater treatment. The city accepts responsibility for that as well, so [25:30] Wayne Mallar: are there any questions? I have a question. I know you're not talking about this, but I noticed it said that we didn't have an easement for the one on Push Our Road. Are we going to get an easement? I mean, it's difficult to do maintenance if we can't get to it. That was a different subdivision. [25:46] Unidentified speaker (Planning staff): So the one on Push Odds, it's going to be a public road, so we're going to have access. [25:51] Wayne Mallar: Did we get permit, did we get an easement on the one that was shown here, the 22 residential lots [25:58] Unidentified speaker (Planning staff): on Push Road? That's the Rose Ledge. When we have, it's a public road, so we don't need an easement. That, I think this was referring to a different development that was a long time ago, you know. [26:08] Wayne Mallar: 21, yeah, the city never got an easement for that. I never got one. No, do we need one? If they wanted us to maintain it, why not maintaining it? We're not maintaining it. That's good. I just wanted to make [26:19] Susan Deane: sure. Yes, I had a question just regarding the fire pond itself. Would that be used if additional water was needed of a tanker truck? Is that obvious just for the lay first? Yeah, so [26:35] Speaker C (unidentified): Instead of hooking up to the hydrant like out front, they hook up to like a frost free hydrant coming from the pond, so there's an active water source right at the fire. Is it for emergency use? [26:44] Susan Deane: So would that be their first source to go to, this fire pond, or would they have another source? This [26:49] Speaker C (unidentified): is secondary. I don't know. I don't, I'm not, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure it would be. I think [26:55] Unidentified speaker (Public Works Director): they say emergency use of just, you know, I just wonder. It's not, make sure it would be the primary [27:02] Unidentified speaker (Planning staff): because this is the fire pump is, so that is where more world areas would get them. Yeah, thank you. [27:11] Speaker C (unidentified): Now if they don't have access to hydra now or pond, but they have like these makeshift ponds that they set up in the roadway and then they keep filling that up, so that just replaces that a lot easier. Any [27:26] Speaker A (unidentified): other questions? So you're looking to direction as to if we're in favor of, there's kind of a general consensus, or we don't need a whole community. I think we should have [27:45] Wayne Mallar: I think it's another question first. I'm just curious now if we're, they're not deeding the pond to us, or are they? No, just curious as to who paid taxes on the pond. [27:59] Unidentified speaker (Planning staff): The development where the pond is and the Rose Ledge cake on the open street would be needed to the city, so we don't, we don't get anything on that one. Okay. [28:11] Wayne Mallar: But we potentially could on some of them. Yeah, there's a nature layer, so [28:20] Speaker A (unidentified): do I have a motion for the city to accept responsibility to maintain this platform? So [28:43] Speaker C (unidentified): yeah, we have a couple street renaming on the agenda, and I'm going to have my GIS administrator, who is also our addressing administrator, John Miller, come up. These are, these are actually pretty simple issues, but John can talk about why we want to do it. Sure. Which one are we starting with? Okay, yes, this is pretty interesting. So when that street was originally laid out in 1908, it was named Pleasant View Street, and the first 35 or so, there were a lot of addresses that got put on it initially back in the early 1900s, and they all said Pleasant View Street, and in the mid 50s one of them got addressed as Pleasant View Avenue. We have no record for why, it just happened, and then we didn't know anything about it until what was it, about maybe six weeks ago, we had a resident call in about getting a street sign changed. Why does the street sign say Pleasant View Street? Everybody uses Pleasant View Avenue. How do we fix this? And so we did a bunch of digging around, and we didn't find any record of Pleasant View Avenue anywhere other than this one address card from the 50s, an official record, I should say. And we did find some online sources like Google Maps and Apple Maps that were conflicting, but those aren't authoritative, you know. So we talked to a few folks, and everybody told us that they used Pleasant View Avenue. And the big one for us is that I reached out to the letter carrier supervisor at the Bangor Post Office and had them sort of audit all of the mail that goes to that street over a couple days. And every single piece of mail that goes to the 12 houses on that street go to Pleasant View Avenue. They just decided to rename it back in the 50s, and that's what everyone's trying to get away with, and there's really no impact, you know, like I said, there's only 12 addresses there, it's not really going to cause any difficulty or any trouble for us to rename it. [31:11] Speaker A (unidentified): I'm not on this [31:12] Susan Deane: committee, but just a question about how would this or would it impact emergency services [31:19] Speaker C (unidentified): this? So it currently technically gives, because if someone who lives on that street calls 9-1-1 and they say there's a fire at 23 Pleasant View Avenue, when the dispatcher looks that up, they're not going to find that, and so by making this change, we will correct that to the right direction, that the residents and emergency services and postal service and all that will be on the same page. [31:45] Joseph Leonard: I was gonna jokingly just vote no on this for just because just such a ridiculous thing overall to me, that glitch in the matrix, but thank you for that point, actually, because that's that is actually a serious issue, so I will vote in favor this. Also make a motion to move forward with this name change for the street. Second. Any doubts? Yeah. [32:13] Speaker C (unidentified): So the next step is I'll bring an order the full council, and we'll, if that's proven, we'll change the map and then have public works change the sign. One more? Yeah, I mean, the other one, this is even simpler, this development, I can't recall the name of the bell in my head, that little the street that connects Virginia Lane and Rolling Meadows was initially planned to extend farther to the east and it didn't, it's only 300 feet long and no houses ever got addressed on it, so it's not used for anything. It's just a 300 foot section of road that has, you know, exists standalone for no useful purpose. And for all the individuals, because there are a number of properties that have bought it, and for all the individuals who live adjacent to it, they just refer to it as Virginia Lane. Because as you're driving down Virginia Lane and it just takes a hard right to get to the hard right, it doesn't feel like you're getting on a new road. There is a sign at the intersection of Lilac Ave and Bowling Meadows Drive that says Lilac Ave, but none of the residents refer to it as that. And I don't see any homes needing to be addressed on Lilac Avenue. If we extend Virginia Avenue to that, we can also extend the address range so if any of the parcels do get subdivided, then we need to put an address on that extension. That's, you know, there's no reason we couldn't put it on Virginia Lane as well. So that's just to clear up, mostly to clear up confusion, because the residents don't understand why there's a sign there that says Lilac App, because there's not a sign for the opposite at the corner between Lila Avenue and Virginia Lane. Any [34:13] Susan Deane: questions? Just for clarity, I know the names but I can't place where the neighborhood is. Where does this start? So I don't know what [34:19] Wayne Mallar: happened. Yeah, okay, just [34:27] Michael Beck: a curiosity question. So these old signs, when they get taken down and replaced, do they just get thrown out or they get retired? Like does someone put them up on their office somewhere in the city? And that's a piece of history of the city if you think about it. [34:41] Speaker C (unidentified): Yeah, that's, there's a sign shop and I think there's a bunch of old signs sitting in that sign job of public works. Any questions? [34:58] Joseph Leonard: Staff recommendation. Second. [35:02] Speaker A (unidentified): Any doubt? So this will go on to thumbs up to change the name from Lilac Cap to Virginia. [35:10] Speaker C (unidentified): Yes, thank you. [35:11] Wayne Mallar: Quick question. [35:19] Joseph Leonard: I just want to, not on this commission, but I want to make a comment on the Pleasant View Street to Pleasant Out renaming, you know, there's various departments starting into the podcasting world. There will be a large audience out there for weird things that happen in municipal government over time. This is a great story about something that you've discovered. I mean, you just, this committee just ratified an action from 1954 or whatever, but that would make a great podcast episode. Somebody's thinking about that, I think. [35:54] Speaker A (unidentified): Is there anything else? So infrastructure.