Madison Planning Board backs 5-foot setback, advances dental office plan

[0:05] Jay Watt, Chair: Depends on what crop you look at, well, we'll get my phone says six. [Speaker B (unidentified): You're good.] All right, 630, call this meeting to Get start order, roll call. Seems how it's public session, we might as well introduce ourselves. Want to start in, we'll go down the line. [0:33] Danny Moody, Code Enforcement Officer: Yeah, Danny Moody, code enforcement officer. [0:36] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: Mark Doty, Vice Chair. [0:38] Robin Turek: Robin Turek. [0:39] Jay Watt, Chair: Jay Watt, Chair. [0:41] Ryan Murphy: Ryan Murphy. Chelsea VanGordon. [0:44] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Amy Clark, Town Planner. [0:46] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager. [0:50] Jay Watt, Chair: Okay. Do we need a motion to approve minutes? [0:55] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: So moved, and also [0:57] Speaker I (unidentified): waived the reading. Second. [1:00] Jay Watt, Chair: Any questions, comments? No, I think Randy pointed out was the old Point Avenue meeting room it was moved so that should be changed and the only on that one I saw was just drop the s off my last name for the book I don't care Randy would have caught that too and made a motion so all right so we're all set with that need a vote all in favor I wasn't here so before we start that Chelsea you can Adrienne's out today yep you're both right so six well just to make sure everybody turn the phones on silent please so we don't get any interruptions and if you want to speak at the public hearing Cheyenne went around hopefully you wrote your name down which one we have to tonight so I don't know what everybody's here for but we'll get to them as fast as we can just direct all questions through the board if you could please so we don't have a lot of people talking at once so we'll start with number one public hearing site plan review a Madison dental group so we'll open it at 632 you'd like to start with a presentation or yeah [2:39] Sashi Meisner, applicant: if everybody can hear that's fine okay so I'm Sashi Meisner here on behalf of me as you can see we've cited the building [3:27] Danny Moody, Code Enforcement Officer: Well, it's off-center in it and I got a couple screens over it. [3:31] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: If you X all the tools on the side, maybe that might help too. Yeah. Oh, here, yeah. If [3:44] Sashi Meisner, applicant: you can't see this, I do have some hard copy plans that I could roll out for folks or look afterwards. So this is Perkins Street and this is Old Point Avenue. Right across the street is the Family Dollar. and right on this side is the current dentist office so main dental group owns that building that dentist office there and the plan will be to close that down and relocate once this new building is constructed so the new building will be a one-story structure it'll have some really nice architectural features that they'll feel fit the town. There'll be 13 operatories so it'll be a little larger than the current one. They're doing this because they're running out of they don't have enough capability to serve the needs of it. So this will allow them to do their job a little bit better. It'll also be fully accessible with their current. So the building is located up be nice along basic lighting of the park. More ornamental style don't feel like it has a presence. There's a lot of windows along the frontage egress door here dumpster will be on this side we recognize that there's a residence over here there's a cemetery behind and then commercial properties in the rest of the area is it possible for the landscape we are proposing of what i feel is a editing plan for this quite a few trees going along the residence buffer and then we're also proposing a six foot fence solid cedar fence along that property should give them a nice buffer even though the activity will be relatively mild we recognize that it's still an impact there is a small drainage area here that we're familiar with and so the site will be really [Mark Doty: sure so] this is the frontage along Old Point Avenue. You can see lots of windows, has some dormers, has some shingles, so it has a really nice aesthetic. The entrances, which is a really nice feature, so if you were looking from the current dentist office over to this site, overall they're really happy to be expanding here. They're really looking forward to better and yeah I'm here for any [8:21] Jay Watt, Chair: less Cheyenne does [8:22] Speaker B (unidentified): anybody for this one signed up well everybody's present for this one that's [8:28] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: in the crowd so I have their names yeah [8:33] Jay Watt, Chair: okay yeah [8:37] Speaker B (unidentified): no that's fine anybody on [8:43] Jay Watt, Chair: board have questions anybody in a public any questions go ahead [8:48] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: can you clarify the fence [8:52] Sashi Meisner, applicant: against the residents yeah it would be a six foot [8:57] Amy Clark, Town Planner: solid cedar board fence does it go just along the side where the parking was or [9:03] Sashi Meisner, applicant: is it gonna extend fully to the perfect street road we were having it go the full property line okay and then is that your preference yeah that's what we were looking at and then there's we have like two large oak trees and then on the On the parking lot side we have a white pine, our two large red maples, so really those should all kind of, but it seems like there's a lot of invasives kind of there right now. There is. A little scrubby, so hopefully those will all get cleaned out. Okay. And any [9:50] Speaker K (unidentified): other questions? Go ahead, Randy. Do you have an anticipated opening day? I don't. [10:00] Sashi Meisner, applicant: The next step will be getting the construction drawings going, and as soon as we can get those out, I'm imagining if everything goes well that they would start construction comes right. [10:25] Speaker L (unidentified): Do you, are you waiting, you haven't done bids yet for contractors? [10:30] Sashi Meisner, applicant: Yet other no, we still have to finalize some of the structural details. I mean you're still working through some of those details, and then once we have that set ready, we would be ready to have any. [10:50] Jay Watt, Chair: other questions okay we'll call that public meeting to close at 641 now does the board want to continue with SR 7 or go to the other public but he have any preferences I'd say go to the other [11:22] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: Public hearing, and then we can consider us our seven after that, okay, I'll be a. [11:28] Jay Watt, Chair: good idea everybody see it for that all right so we will open the next one up at 640 let's call it 642 for the setback ordinance Amy you want to kind of talk about it a little bit I mean we've we've talked about it we've had meetings on it [11:46] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Yeah, some of the last changes maybe, yeah, so does everyone have a copy or has everyone seen the most recent changes, okay, let's just say if needed Danny could probably put it up there if we needed it, so essentially what is occurring is the current ordinance in place discuss it like has a 15 foot setback, so the town is, we are discussing lowering that to five feet all around within it, you can see the exemptions that exist, so the five feet isn't starting down at the foundation, it's your ease and. Your overhangs are all included within that five feet, so if you are looking into building you have to take that into consideration within the realm of the five foot setback from property lines, you'll also see that within that the exemptions are you've got fences and hedges that are six feet, and then let me get over here, we're going up not down, there we go, okay, so also allowed within the projection in the setback area is climate control equipment such as air conditioning heat pumps and stuff. you'll see that 's allowable within that setback any of your you know other structures like sheds out buildings anything like that have to also fall within that five-foot setback decks etc swimming pools chimneys fireplaces all of it they all have to meet within that five-foot setback it is very we've tried to cover like all the different aspects that could come up when looking at building a new structure to be able to meet the regulations set forth. [14:06] Jay Watt, Chair: Okay. Anybody from the board want to comment on this? Anybody in the public want to talk about it? Any questions? Go ahead, Dan. [14:18] Speaker K (unidentified): One time or another, you said something about parking trails or something within that five foot set. [14:25] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Yes, so that is listed in there. It's item number nine. It's on page three. There's no storage of inoperable vehicles, campers, or similar items within the setback area. [14:38] Speaker K (unidentified): No storage of what? Inoperable vehicles. Oh, so a trail that you can put there, you know, like a long trail or something you want to park in there, or a utility trail or something you're going to use every now and then and you can park it there, you just want something that's going to be left there that can't move. So anything that can't move can't be put in there. [14:59] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Well, yeah, like long-term storage, like, you know, people who storage campers for excessive amounts of time and stuff like that, like that's kind of what we're looking at. And part of it is for safety, just because, you know, emergency vehicles need to be able to access areas around the house in an emergency. So some of that kind of falls within that guideline. Like a trailer is not that is used on a regular basis I don't think would fall within that. [15:27] Speaker K (unidentified): And one more question. How about Jeff Wright, like on Main Street, Madison, the town had all kinds of garages that had all kinds of rooms. Are we going to go from there, plus another five feet? No. Jeff Wright at that time wanted to be rated at the states. [15:43] Jay Watt, Chair: That's what it's going to be at, except for the exemption. I thought she said five feet all the way around. Zero on the road frontage. [15:49] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Zero on the road frontage. However, that is also up to the road commissioner. So if you want to go, like that's something that you have to discuss with Danny, the CEO, and the road commissioner just to confirm if you really want to go zero on the road. [16:09] Jay Watt, Chair: Yep. But if it's a DOT road, you know, you're never going to get them to come out there and tell you that. No. The only exemption was, if you read it, there was like Naomi Avenue where we don't have, we got 20 foot which is basically hot top to hot top. So in that instance, then we got the five foot, so somebody don't build right out to the edge. Or any other public way that we don't know about that might come up in that same area. Yep. Well, it was feedback from everybody. Some people are against it. Some people are for it. [17:33] Speaker K (unidentified): And I don't know if there's thinking about that. No. Which water don't get shed off. [17:59] Jay Watt, Chair: I get it, but adding too much to it makes it so complicated. And when you get into complication, you get confusion, and it just adds more problems. And you know, I don't think it's worth it for that extra because [18:14] Speaker B (unidentified): I've seen people do it. I was under the understanding that one of the other [18:24] Speaker L (unidentified): reasons for the eaves wasn't just for watershed was for emergency vehicles to be able to get in because not all the eaves are up 12 14 feet high some of them below and if that overhang comes out a couple more feet then if they needed to drive a fire truck in there or something like that then that Eve could possibly [18:40] Speaker M (unidentified): inhibit it. That was the way I understood it. Yes, you're correct, and also one of [18:46] Amy Clark, Town Planner: the other considerations was your climate control equipment like your air conditionings and stuff without the eat like if you don't include the ease like if you don't include the ease your and you go by your foundation then like those heat pumps that stick out the side of the house I mean that can be up to two feet so then you really are at a three foot setback but when we include the eaves and that it kind of helps really kind of keep that area free and even like a lot of window units for air conditioners, depending on the age of the unit and the size of the unit, those can stick out relatively far as well. And then again, you're taking up another, what, two feet of that five feet, then you have a three foot setback at that point. [19:45] Speaker K (unidentified): If I have an end gable, no eave, I can go 5 foot setback. [Jay Watt: An end gable?] Yeah, with no eave, no overhang. [19:57] Jay Watt, Chair: No overhang, yeah. You're saying if somebody wants to play. If we took the eaves out. [20:13] Amy Clark, Town Planner: If you took the eaves out. But, I mean, if you're talking about properties that are currently built, most of them fall within that 5 foot setback because we're actually decreasing from a 15 to a 5. [20:26] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: I get what you're saying. [20:27] Speaker N (unidentified): I understand all this. [20:29] Amy Clark, Town Planner: But you know, we can't tell people that they cannot put climate control in their home, if that's your question. [Speaker N (unidentified): So with] that, I am going to defer to the code enforcement officer, because when it comes to something like that, I think the best plan of action would be to have a conversation with Danny for him to kind of investigate, and then determine between the homeowner and the code enforcement officer kind of determine the best placement for that within that five foot setback. [21:09] Speaker N (unidentified): I understand what you're saying with the emergency personnel and everything. [21:42] Amy Clark, Town Planner: No, heat pumps are allowed. Allowed projections into the setback. A heat pump is an allowable projection into the setback. [21:50] Speaker K (unidentified): Yeah, but you just said if you don't have an EVA, is it? [21:53] Amy Clark, Town Planner: it? No, I said part of the reason behind including the eaves within the five foot setback is to kind of give a little bit of extra room so that we're not taking [22:06] Speaker K (unidentified): out. I don't know if you understand, but do you have a rule? Yep, because [22:18] Amy Clark, Town Planner: it is an allowed projection. [22:20] Speaker L (unidentified): It's kind of a gray area, isn't it? [22:25] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Well, and we have them in separate, we have them listed as separate. [22:29] Speaker K (unidentified): I don't want to go to the room, so I really don't want to bring it up. You guys say you don't want to hold a compliment, I think this is going forever. I mean, make it simple, five feet and get it over. [22:42] Public commenter: Like Jay, you know where our house is. Mm-hm. So where the garage is and we park, well, I guess first of all, can you explain that five feet from where that starts on Artistry? Where would that start, the edge of the pavement? So [22:58] Jay Watt, Chair: what that road would, I'm guessing a three-rod road. Every road has a two-rod road, three-rod road, four-rod road. So a rod is 16.5 feet. Okay. So it's three-rod road times 16.5. Then you go from the center line and measure out. This [23:17] Public commenter: could possibly make it we couldn't park our vehicles in that drive. [23:22] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Parking the vehicles. Because they're operable, we could. Yeah. Because they're operable. It's basically people that are just leaving broken down vehicles and not to, you know, essentially not being responsible for them is kind of what it is. [23:37] Public commenter: So why couldn't that go in under, like, the junkyard? It feels like this is an HOA thing and, like, are we still going to be taxed on this footage or whatever you call it that we're not going to be allowed to use? because that's not really right and like our house we've looked into heat pumps but we can only have it in certain rooms it's an old house so we're gonna get [24:08] Amy Clark, Town Planner: penalized if we have to have it no because it's listed as allowed it isn't a lot of projection if he okays it right well it yeah it truly depends on the situation if you guys are looking at it most heat pumps don't extend too far on the outside of the house but if you're looking at possibly in crouching a line then you're going to have to have a conversation but it is listed as an [24:37] Speaker L (unidentified): Allowed projection, keep in mind that a heat pump is a mini split system, which means you have the indoor unit that can go anywhere in your house, and the condenser is the other part to that can go anywhere on the outside of the house. So let's say if you had a restriction on one side of your house and you couldn't put that condenser, you just put it on the back or the other the side. Yeah, that's true, but you can go, I want to say you can go a hundred [25:02] Speaker M (unidentified): feet with a traditional line set there. No, there's definitely a distance we're [25:36] Speaker L (unidentified): trying to go from 15 foot set back down to five, so this should be happy for [25:39] Ryan Murphy: everybody. Yeah, I just want to say like for myself, I live on a quarter acre, and putting a shed on a quarter acre with a 15 foot setback is almost impossible. It puts it right in the middle of your lawn, it makes my yard completely unusable. So I appreciate that you are trying to move this to a five foot setback. It makes it so that I have some usable space in my yard. We discussed originally [26:04] Speaker L (unidentified): We were originally trying to go to zero, but it's just not possible because of foundation. [26:08] Jay Watt, Chair: So this was brought to us for that reason. Everybody said 15 feet was too much. For some reason, this says 2012. I believe it was 17 when they adopted that. We have no record of why it was done. I believe it was pushed by the fire administration, not the fire department. I don't want to get confused. So they wanted to be able to access it for towns. I get it. It was brought up to us to do something about it. We've reviewed it, we've talked about it, we've had meeting after meeting on this, and they want to get this to a special town meeting. If you guys are not happy with it, the board's going to make a decision to send it or not send it. If we don't send it, then we're going to have to go back and start over. It'll miss the town meeting. You guys can go to the town meeting and vote it down, and we have to start over again. We try to listen to everybody and come up with the best way. To me, I'm with most of you guys, nitpicking. I don't like it. we pay taxes on that land we should be able to use it but you also have to consider your neighbors and I wouldn't want the eve a side of my house within three feet of somebody's property line you know it's just you need some distance I know the town lots of tight unfortunately there's not a lot of buildable town lots left in town there's a few but majority of it's built on you That's kind of where the board's at, how we made this decision. We've gone back and forth, back and forth. We're trying to get it so it can go to the special town meeting. I mean, if we have to revisit it, then the board will make a decision whether to forget about it for now, you know, because we have other ones we need to be working on that the board and the town has asked us to work on, and we only have so much time. So we are listening. We do hear you, but there's also other people that tell us, and we try to come up with the best idea. You know, that's what we can do. [Speaker I (unidentified): I'm] not telling you to accept it at all, that's [28:18] Speaker K (unidentified): something that's up to the board, yeah. [28:32] Speaker M (unidentified): I [28:38] Jay Watt, Chair: mean, I've seen people put you, I mean, the way they want to put the houses, well, okay, so now I can't do that, so maybe now they're going to turn their house the other way, then just because they can put a knee on that's six feet, and then in three years down the road they close it in, it's [28:54] Speaker K (unidentified): just they really can't turn, I mean, when they come out they have a walkway, something that can't be there, I mean, if they did turn it, they're going to be set back, they can't pull up. [29:10] Speaker L (unidentified): That's a good question, walkways is, walkways are fine, walkways are fine, I didn't think a walkway would [29:18] Amy Clark, Town Planner: be a problem, yeah, because it's an entrance into the building, yeah, it's not a structure, it could [29:23] Speaker I (unidentified): could be long to be gravel, could be paved, right, yeah, that's a structure. [29:33] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Yeah, it almost would have to be because they're going to lead from the properly line to the house. [29:39] Speaker L (unidentified): Right, because that's what they do in the cities where they have setbacks, you know, you'll have houses cramped right up against each other with walkways right along the fence, but while we're getting into the weeds on this, like shrubs and bushes and stuff like that, 's not [29:50] Amy Clark, Town Planner: really, yeah, no, because they're hedges and they just have to be six feet or less. Yeah, like if you have a row of bushes or something within that five foot setback, that is funny. Because it could be essentially considered a hedge. You just can't let it grow ten feet tall going. [30:30] Danny Moody, Code Enforcement Officer: Right. Okay, he said original setback was five feet. It was pushed by fire to allow access around all homes. [30:43] Robin Turek: So that's why it got put to the 15 feet, but that's right, that was brought up originally. [30:47] Speaker L (unidentified): And I remember that being part of the discussion. Yeah, so basically trying to put it back to the way it was. [30:57] Public commenter: Question on page five talking about like renovating something, like is that like a major home renovation or how small does that go down to? If I want to paint my deck, is that considered? [31:34] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: No, it's really if you're building something and adding on, or say you're like replacing your deck and putting one in, you're allowed to use the same [31:45] Speaker M (unidentified): footprint that was originally. Yeah, if it is the same footprint, you can do it [31:50] Danny Moody, Code Enforcement Officer: without any correct yeah depends what it is if you're talking something that's structural then yes it depends but if you're just like replacing your siding stuff like that 's I mean that doesn't require a permit you're allowed to do maintenance and repair on your home. [32:05] Public commenter: I like that we're allowed to. So if this is within the rules of the setback and the eaves and everything are within those guidelines, if you want to add on or restyle your deck or whatever it is, why do we have to have permission for that? That's our homes. If that's not getting into these parameters for you. [32:35] Danny Moody, Code Enforcement Officer: I think the idea is just to come to the town just to check to see what is required for a permit because some things are different. Like I said, if it becomes structural, it may require a permit. Like I said, if it's just normal maintenance repairs, they don't, but it's always good to check with code enforcement just to be sure on that. I mean, if you're adding something like a bay window that may come up where that would now be into that five feet zone, maybe if it was within that distance. So, I mean, it's good to check with us. [33:04] Speaker N (unidentified): Is there a square footage where it requires a permit to be pulled and that's 200 square feet? [33:11] Danny Moody, Code Enforcement Officer: Well, if it's like a storage shed, then 200 and under there's no permit required. I mean, but that's a loaded thing because if it's shoreland zone, that's different, so it depends on the area. Again, always good to come and check with the town just to be sure. [33:29] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: And I can say, you know, a lot of coming and checking with a code enforcement officer is to also, because all of these ordinances are put in place and then the town has to abide by them. So if we don't recommend for residents to come in to abide by the ordinances of the town Madison put in place as a town, that's not us following what we've set as our home rule. So we do have to follow that, and at some point these ordinances were put in place, so the code enforcement would be the best person to talk to make sure that what you're doing doesn't violate one of these, so somebody doesn't make a complaint and then come back and say, well, my neighbor did this and I looked up the ordinances online, and you then find out you have a violation because it wasn't right. I get what you're saying [34:17] Speaker I (unidentified): but yes, it's under six feet. Yeah, no setback as long as they're six feet or [34:25] Danny Moody, Code Enforcement Officer: under, just the road right away. They can't be within the road right away, right? They can be on the property lines otherwise. [34:35] Public commenter: So [34:45] Amy Clark, Town Planner: planting a tree within the five-foot setback, you could possibly be in crouching on another property or on the road because of the future growth. So those are considerations that you have to take. Even without a five-foot setback, when you're planting trees, you got to be careful where you plant them, because the tree shed and you often hear about trees and storms falling on somebody else's house. And so you just, yeah, you [35:19] Jay Watt, Chair: also got to remember these property pins on all these in-town lots. A lot of these people have lived there for 50, 60, 80 years, now they're being, you know, they pass on and get sold, and then they get it surveyed, and it's not exactly where it was. And you know, so that five foot is, it gives a little leeway if you get a resurvey and find out your pins put off from where it used to be. You know, it's, yeah, that's my feeling. I get it, I see all the sides, and it's tough, but this is what we asked. We come up with the best thing we could do, and we're just trying to, you know, the public hearing is to voice your concerns. Well, is anybody else got a concern before we move on? Okay, LB, if we have a [36:07] Speaker B (unidentified): special town meeting in October, we're looking for the end of October. We do [36:14] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: have other items that are going to be at the special town meeting. The town is currently in the process of trying to find a town lawyer to help revise and look over items like this before hitting special town meeting, but the goal is the last Monday in October. If anything is to change, I'll find out within the next couple of weeks. [36:33] Speaker B (unidentified): And it would be only delaying a week or so, yes. So that's the earliest it'll be done. We'll [36:44] Jay Watt, Chair: close this public hearing at 707. thank you everybody do you guys want to vote on that now to finish this or do you want to wait you just have a we're going to make a motion and [37:10] Speaker B (unidentified): Oh, but we have to pass it to them, right? Yes, you should be making a motion to send it to them. Okay [37:17] Robin Turek: As written. I'll make that motion [37:24] Speaker B (unidentified): Okay, second. Ryan second. Any [37:29] Jay Watt, Chair: further discussion? Everybody's comfortable? All right, all those in favor? Five-zero. Okay, Sean, okay, close that one. So might as well move to, I'll open this one, that would be doing SR7, the Madison Dental Group SR7. So the first one is access to lots [38:23] Amy Clark, Town Planner: I think the original packet, she outlined everything in that fairly well. [38:32] Jay Watt, Chair: If I'm correct, yes. Do we have one copy of a map? I do. You do? A large amount? No, so we can, at the end, if it goes, [38:41] Speaker I (unidentified): everything's good, we just need to sign one. If everything goes through. Yeah, and in her original letter, she [38:48] Amy Clark, Town Planner: She outlines each of the SR-7s for the work that she completed. [38:55] Jay Watt, Chair: Is everybody happy with 484-15? [39:01] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: And it's actually 19 now. [39:04] Jay Watt, Chair: Oh, so this is an old one. So have all the numbers changed? [39:17] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: Right down the line. Right down the line? Yep. They fall right into place. 16 is 20, and 17 is 21. Okay. [39:26] Jay Watt, Chair: And 35 is 39. Is everybody happy with that one? Comments? It's all standards [39:37] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: yeah, it's definitely frontage on a public road, the [39:51] Speaker N (unidentified): requirement, yes, we're [39:54] Jay Watt, Chair: good with that. Yep. 484 dash 20, air emissions. I [40:04] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: would agree with the application that we don't expect any toxic emissions. Everybody [40:16] Jay Watt, Chair: good? 484-21, buffer and screening. I [40:33] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: think they did a really nice job with the six flip fence along the property line and the trees that are being planned to planted, and that even a little bit of buffering on the cemetery, and that it's a very nice [40:47] Speaker N (unidentified): landscaping plan that they put together for ready. For there's 22, construction [Jay Watt: standards, looks good] stated [41:20] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: that they'll comply with main uniform building and [41:24] Speaker N (unidentified): energy code, and that's what the ordinance calls for. Yep. All [Jay Watt: good? 484-23,] storage of flammables, explosive materials. Not up. Yeah, they said they don't plan to have any. So we're good there. [41:59] Jay Watt, Chair: 484-24, Glare. [42:04] Amy Clark, Town Planner: My only question on the previous one is the storage of the what do you call it, the laughing gas? Nitrous oxide. [42:13] Ryan Murphy: Yeah, I was just thinking that as well. They don't plan to have any, but [42:18] Amy Clark, Town Planner: does the dentist's office not plan to have nitrous oxide? We [42:24] Sashi Meisner, applicant: currently do with it. I'm sure it's in state. Yeah. [42:41] Jay Watt, Chair: Okay. Yeah, do they only use that if they knock him out, right, like for surgery? [42:54] Speaker L (unidentified): Yeah, I don't even know if they have it on site because he doesn't do surgeries there. [42:59] Amy Clark, Town Planner: There. Yeah, I can't speak to that. Yeah, I wouldn't think so. Are they only dental hygienists? It's not only for surgeries though. I've seen people like for like simple extraction. Yeah, I was going to say my son had it for an extraction. Sometimes if you have like two extractions. If you have high anxiety. I know because I'm a patient and I had [43:17] Robin Turek: extractions and he referred me elsewhere. Yeah, same here. Really? Okay. So I think we [43:23] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: can cover this one. Yeah. Because the ordinance says all flammable or explosive liquid solids the gaseous shall be stored in a manner in location which is in compliance with regulations of federal state local authorities so if we say any of these will be stored in a manner in compliance with [43:47] Speaker L (unidentified): regulations which would be some type of a locked cabinet with no access to [43:51] Amy Clark, Town Planner: patients I would assume probably temperature-controlled yeah is there [44:07] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: like a form of health inspection that they have to do as a dental office I [44:13] Sashi Meisner, applicant: don't know I'm assuming so but for their building they have required yeah we'll [44:33] Speaker B (unidentified): clean and then you clean in the stuff yeah they have to put them enough I was [44:43] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: just curious because if they are getting inspections like that do they want to see like the setup that they have to make sure it meets you know what they [44:52] Speaker N (unidentified): have for standards all right so glare once again a very good plan has been [45:02] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: submitted half a candle power at the boundary lines and also looks to me like all of them are hooded so there's no light emission upwards which is a great addition so [45:19] Jay Watt, Chair: we're all good with that all right 484 25 landscaping I think the plan was very good. So I'm good with it. Everybody else is? Yes. I'm good. Okay, 484-26. Groundwater impacts. [45:53] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah, I was looking for a stormwater catch. There must be stormwater. There is a stormwater plan. There was a water plan last time. Then they had the pond down in the corner. Yeah. Retaining pond. [46:07] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: It's very well drawn out. Yeah. Not actually a pond so much as a pond. Because it is wood shavings in a depression that the water gets fed into and that slows it down and spreads it out and then releases it over time. So the effect is that the street where the water is exiting the property sees no greater flow than it did before the construction. [46:46] Jay Watt, Chair: It's good, but that one? 44-27 sound. [46:54] Robin Turek: You don't think they're going to make much sound? [47:00] Jay Watt, Chair: Somebody's screaming when they're getting drunk. [47:02] Robin Turek: I was thinking that, but I wasn't going to say it. [47:04] Jay Watt, Chair: That's all inside. That's inside. New bill and it should be all sound. Oh my gosh. You've got to make fun once in a while. 4-84-28, off-street parking and loading. [47:22] Speaker L (unidentified): Doesn't really apply, does it? Oh yeah, Mark. [47:32] Robin Turek: You looked like you were gonna say something. [47:35] Speaker L (unidentified): Well, I was. Deliveries are gonna be going in the parking lot. Is that what they're talking about? There's not gonna be any, there's not gonna be anybody 48-foot trails, I'll point out. I [47:50] Speaker M (unidentified): I wouldn't think, right? Yeah. [47:55] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: And the size of the square footage of the building required 29 spaces and they put in 30. Yeah, they got an extra set, so yeah. [48:05] Robin Turek: Okay. [48:12] Jay Watt, Chair: Everybody good with that? Yep. 44-29, order control, just [48:23] Robin Turek: a dumpster, but that's [48:27] Speaker L (unidentified): put in a spot that it's been thought out. He's [48:38] Jay Watt, Chair: good, so 44-30, public services. Talk [48:52] Robin Turek: about the one dumpster. They're going to take the medical waste off site. Yeah, one [49:11] Sashi Meisner, applicant: for their regular trash. Okay. [49:16] Jay Watt, Chair: All good? 44-31, sanitary provisions. [49:27] Speaker L (unidentified): What would be applicable there other than... [49:30] Robin Turek: Well, they're on public sewer. Public sewer. And they say they have one already stubbed to the site and will be evaluated for reuse. [49:43] Speaker L (unidentified): From the old house lot that used to be there? Is that what... and [49:56] Robin Turek: then it's a medicine sewer district has provided stating the ability to serve for service to the new dentist office, so that is the sanitary district is good with it. We should be 44 [50:14] Jay Watt, Chair: -32, signs. What [50:19] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: they said is that they're not proposing a sign at this point. They'll come back for sign permit in the future. That they [50:25] Sashi Meisner, applicant: they were moving this one, mm-hmm. What is what they're using now? That's the [50:47] Jay Watt, Chair: the sign they have. Okay. So 484-33, soils. We [51:03] Robin Turek: have the soil survey, don't we? Yeah, they mean everything. Yeah, it's pretty extensive. [51:10] Amy Clark, Town Planner: The soils and the stormwater and everything are very well done. Yep. Yeah. [51:16] Jay Watt, Chair: So we're good with that? Mm-hmm. So 484-34, soil erosion control. [51:26] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: They've got a robust plan. [51:27] Sashi Meisner, applicant: Mm-hm, mm-hm. [51:29] Speaker M (unidentified): Yeah, we're good there. [51:35] Jay Watt, Chair: 484.35. Storage of materials, which we, there really isn't any, right? No, perfect. I'm inside, so that's. 44-36, stormwater management. [51:54] Speaker N (unidentified): Again. Yeah, good plan there, good plan. Kind [52:03] Speaker L (unidentified): of falls under 25 and 26. [52:04] Speaker I (unidentified): Yeah, some of these kind of repeat themselves. [52:06] Jay Watt, Chair: All right, 484-37, street access and driveways, everybody [52:27] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: happy? I'm happy with it. Yeah, they've got a good plan there too, and they have a permit from the main DOT for the driveway. [52:43] Jay Watt, Chair: 484-36, water quality impacts. [52:48] Robin Turek: Impacts. They shouldn't be impacting it. I think that's what they said too. You're correct. [53:04] Jay Watt, Chair: Should be good. Yep. And the last one, 44-39 financial capacity. [53:20] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: I would say from their track record and also the letter from the underscog and savings bank that they have the financial capacity and where we go and they also provided an estimated cost of construction for us. [53:34] Speaker N (unidentified): No nice very. [53:44] Jay Watt, Chair: Well yep all right so complete that I guess we need a motion. Is there a motion to accept or not? [53:57] Mark Doty, Vice Chair: I move that we accept the permit application. Hang on just a minute. Something just flashed. Yeah, we got it. Okay. I move that we approve the permit application. I don't remember any contingencies that we had. They've been met. We have a second? I'll second it. [54:22] Jay Watt, Chair: Okay. All right. Any more discussion ready to vote all those in favor 5-0 congratulations good luck it's a great plan yes. [54:42] Speaker B (unidentified): You do will. [54:44] Jay Watt, Chair: You have a map we can sign after all right any old more old business. [54:56] Danny Moody, Code Enforcement Officer: Well I talked to him he will bring that subdivision he's well planning to for the next planning board meeting and I haven't received anything further from Dustin on the chiropractic office yet. So still waiting for that information. That's pretty much all I got for that. [55:18] Speaker L (unidentified): Yeah, I was in there to get my back cracked the other day and he said, he says there's a lot of homework to do, a lot of stuff to do. [55:24] Amy Clark, Town Planner: So he's, yeah. It takes a while to get it all done. [55:26] Speaker M (unidentified): It'll be a little while before we see him again. Yeah. [55:29] Robin Turek: When I asked you about it, do you think I can find the paperwork on me? Me. [55:34] Jay Watt, Chair: Any new business, Danny? [Danny Moody: No. Other business?] Citizen concerns? Beth? [55:50] Public commenter: I was wondering how the planning for the... [55:58] Robin Turek: Lots of homework being done. Public spaces. Public spaces, yeah. How's that going? We're working on it. What does that mean? That means we had to get this one done first. There's this much homework that I'm trying to go through. Yeah you know we had to get this one done first because of the yeah special. [56:18] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Town media yeah we're just kind of working through one at a time right now. [56:23] Speaker L (unidentified): I think when I got all heated in the January hearing or the Katie everyone as a citizen I didn't realize how much homework was going to be involved at all I had no idea we've had directions from John Martin's we've had directions from. [56:37] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: Cheyenne, we've had, yeah, so for that, just to provide some clarification of what happened at the last meeting was when it was discussed. It's not just one ordinance either, it's multiple that were brought to the planning board. So that's another thing that factored into them looking at the setback first, and then the goal would be June town meeting next year. We've been looking at other towns [57:12] Speaker L (unidentified): and seeing what they've done and trying to come up with something that fits Madison, but there's lots of legal issues to try to avoid. Right, I understand that. [57:22] Public commenter: It's, I get that, yeah, it's just watching in the getting something, that's my concern. So, I totally get what you're doing. [57:49] Speaker M (unidentified): It's not as important as something else. [57:56] Robin Turek: This is what we've got to look at for all the other towns and we're diligently going through it, but like we said, we had to get the other one done [58:04] Jay Watt, Chair: first. It'll be a top priority now because it's going to take that long to get it done. Yeah. And if you have any comments or things, suggestions, reach out to Cheyenne or Amy and come to our meetings. We're looking for another member or associate. [58:21] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: She's the one that gave you the written notice. The survey that she had. The handwritten feedback from, so. Wow, okay. [58:27] Public commenter: I can't always be here at a meeting and- [58:29] Jay Watt, Chair: No, but we wish people would come and help. [58:32] Public commenter: I'm not here to bug you either, I'm just, I'm not. [58:35] Speaker B (unidentified): Just trying to figure out- The more input, yeah. [58:37] Jay Watt, Chair: More input we get from the citizens, direction. Direction, I'd rather have it now before until we get right to the doorstep and then all of a sudden all these ideas come out that we should have thought about that we forgot, I didn't come up with, right, because everybody has an opinion and we need to take all the best ideas and make it work for Madison. I [58:55] Speaker L (unidentified): didn't think of that until you said that, Beth. There's a seat open, yes ma'am, yeah, [59:01] Public commenter: yeah, and there'll be another one coming June. I would suspect that once we get [59:16] Amy Clark, Town Planner: through the special town meeting and get through the setback, then from there within a month or two you'll start to see at the town meetings a draft and discussions of the draft and edits and revisions of a draft of public space. But I did like, as they all said, right now we just really kind of got to get through the setback, whether it passes or not, and then we'll move on to public spaces, and they're all doing their homework, they're all reading through their stuff and [59:51] Public commenter: We'll get it drafted, so just asking them how this, these meetings run, so like when you guys are, when you get on to that topic and you're discussing this, are we allowed to ask questions during that, or is it only during the citizens? [1:00:09] Speaker B (unidentified): Concern, no, come to a meeting, come to a meeting, yeah, slowly, yeah, that's the [1:00:18] Jay Watt, Chair: The more I say, the more feedback we get, you know, there's a lot of people there, you might just, you know, we'll have to limit some of the time, but if it's just [1:00:26] Speaker L (unidentified): A few people work, it can not only be helpful to make decisions, but it could also be helpful to bring things up, like the whole setbacks thing didn't come from this board, it came from citizens coming in concerning, and to answer your [1:00:41] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: Question, so if they're talking about it in a meeting, so you'd raise your hand and you would address Jay as the chair for permission to speak, if it's an agenda item, and then if it's separate then something they're actively talking about, then you'd wait for the citizen concerns, Randy [1:01:03] Jay Watt, Chair: Second Tuesday of the [1:01:08] Speaker B (unidentified): The month, we went through this a couple months ago, and I still don't believe [1:01:24] Jay Watt, Chair: That they, we've had this problem so many times, and it's in our ordinances that we have our meeting the second Tuesday of every month, and so for them to bump us, yeah, so we then, we need to have it the same night, oh, we need to cancel it [1:01:38] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: And there is an option to have the same night, we do one in one room and one in the other, as long as it's not a conflict, somebody's trying to do something at the select board meeting that's at the planning board, I'll be at the slack [1:01:49] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Board meeting, I was gonna say, could you do one at the town office and one here too, so then there's like a little bit more of a separation too, well, they're [1:02:00] Jay Watt, Chair: Probably going to talk about the setbacks next meeting, yeah, so [1:02:06] Speaker I (unidentified): You guys might need to, somebody doing should be there, because, yeah, I'll go, I [1:02:11] Speaker L (unidentified): Haven't been Danny like all summer because things have been hectic, but I'm gonna start going again, either [1:02:19] Jay Watt, Chair: That or we cancel that one and have one on the 20th [1:02:27] Speaker B (unidentified): But I thought they do it before, right, hold on, because there's, we have [1:02:35] Robin Turek: Two nights that are, we are allowed to have meetings, the second and the fourth Tuesday are specifically for planning board, the compensation plan, or comprehensive plan rather, was because we weren't having the second meeting, so we are still allowed to have it on that date, yeah, so if you guys want to [1:02:54] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Have it on the fourth Tuesday. That would actually not conflict with the comprehensive committee meeting that night because I actually and I will unfortunately I won't be able to attend that. If you move it to that night I have a procedure on that Tuesday so I will be incapacitated. But therefore we're moving the comprehensive plan committee meeting to the previous week. Okay yeah we're [1:03:19] Robin Turek: talking the 27th of October. Yeah that's when we're supposed to. Yeah because it [1:03:27] Speaker I (unidentified): would be the it's the day. Yeah so it'd be the 27th right. It could be the day [1:03:33] Amy Clark, Town Planner: after that special time meeting that would be but [1:03:37] Speaker L (unidentified): we still don't know for sure when the you just said you're the goal was the last Monday in October [1:03:43] Speaker M (unidentified): right which is the 22 to 26. So yeah hope for that. Yeah because we're also going [1:03:52] Amy Clark, Town Planner: to do the public participation meeting for the comprehensive plan that night as [1:03:56] Speaker L (unidentified): well women [1:03:59] Robin Turek: which night are you talking about on the 26th? 26 there's a select [1:04:04] Jay Watt, Chair: board meeting set in stone. Yes so for future references hopefully we never do this again. I mean I know they're the select board but when we go to vote on [1:04:15] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: the select board agenda because they set the schedule for the whole year all at once and when that time happens it would probably be best for the planning board chair to be at that meeting so that we can just get it all out. [1:04:32] Speaker M (unidentified): Which that's something I didn't think of and that's on me. Do a whole year of scheduling instead of trying to figure it out every [1:04:37] Speaker L (unidentified): meeting is that what you're saying? Try to schedule a whole year worth of [1:04:41] Speaker M (unidentified): meetings? Yes. Which would make a lot of sense. Which is why the slide board has that because so many [1:04:47] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: holidays fall on the Monday. Right. [1:04:50] Jay Watt, Chair: I'm just worried about our in the ordinance for our second Tuesday of the month we're supposed to have a meeting so the only thing we can do is move it or cancel it and have it on the 27th I [1:05:08] Robin Turek: guess I'll leave that up to you guys. I'm okay with the 27th you [1:05:13] Jay Watt, Chair: know I think in case something pops up with Steve I think you'd be happy to have more time would. Yeah okay so let's set the next meeting for the 27th October 630 here is [1:05:34] Speaker L (unidentified): it dumb question is it possible in the future to put some kind of a clause in the ordinance you know you said we have to meet you know it's for the public notice [1:05:48] Speaker B (unidentified): you know they know they know it's gonna be like I was gonna say if there's some [1:05:52] Speaker L (unidentified): kind of a stipulation because of a holiday or something that we can we [1:05:57] Jay Watt, Chair: We can move it. We have the right to do it, just for the public. To get the notice out early enough. Right, which is what, seven days? You're right. [1:06:07] Amy Clark, Town Planner: It's a good job for the town clerk. [1:06:10] Speaker L (unidentified): Yeah, add that to your plate. [1:06:12] Amy Clark, Town Planner: No, I meant the town clerk, not her. [1:06:14] Speaker L (unidentified): Oh, add that to your plate. [1:06:15] Cheyenne Stephens, Town Manager: Well, I gotta train the town clerk. [1:06:16] Amy Clark, Town Planner: Yeah, that would be a good opportunity. [1:06:19] Jay Watt, Chair: Any more citizen concerns? Good. Board member concerns? Mark? No. Robin? No. Chelsea? No. And I have none. So I guess we'll adjourn at, what is it, 736. Good meeting.