Wayne Comprehensive Plan Committee Sets Chapter Review Process

[0:02] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): So I'm calling this meeting of the Comprehensive Plan Committee to order this Monday, September 21st, and all members are present except for Steve Saunders. Lynette and Chris are attending remotely by Zoom, and we have one public member who could you identify yourself for the record? [0:29] Tico Brown: Please, I'm Tico Brown from Tucker Road. Okay, thank you, Tico. So first of all, [0:36] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): first thing is to ask for any public comment. Do we have and is there anybody else online, or is that other than our two members? No. Okay, just our committee members, just our committee, just okay. Tico, any comment you want to put on [0:55] Tico Brown: the record or raise at this point? I like the fact that the survey was well the meeting for the survey it was very well attended, and a lot of good comments that came out, and so I think the committee's on a good start for the program, and once we get back into to what the previous plan was all about, then we can start melding everything together. [1:29] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Bad, boy. [1:32] Speaker C (unidentified): Damn white boy. [1:35] Tico Brown: Then we can start putting everything together. I have only two more months here, and then I'll be off for the wintertime. [1:45] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Ah, okay. Well, we'll miss you. [1:49] Tico Brown: Of course you can always attend remotely. Oh I could, yes. So if I had the I purposefully have not kept my electronics up to date -huh because I want to stay away from [2:03] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): thank you. All right, well thank you for that public comment. Then for meeting minutes, we have meeting minutes both for July 20th and for August 17. And if you've reviewed their them, we'll entertain a motion to approve those minutes. First of all, for July 20th, Richard, I think I was not at that meeting. Oh okay, it says you were. Yeah, but we can strike that. Okay, not that 's critical. But there you go. All right. And any other corrections to the meeting minutes for July 20? Not on my end. Okay. Hearing none, do we have a motion to approve? Okay. And let me just write this down. Bob and Paula, all in favor? Aye. Aye. And? Aye. Okay. And it's unanimous, thank you. And then with respect to the Comprehensive Client Plan meeting minutes for August 17, do we have any corrections or additions to that? Okay, I will accept them. All right, motion to approve by Ford, and do we have a second by Bob? All in favor? Aye. Okay, that's unanimous, and both of those are approved, thank you. Okay, so then we have got old business. First of all, on the agenda is the community survey, which Kiko has already touched on. So the survey has been wrapped up, has been finalized. The results were sent out by Chris, and I think everybody has seen those. Any discussion on the community survey? None. Okay. Okay. All right. No. Say again, Chris? I was just saying there's got to be some, right? You would think. You would think. I haven't seen it, Chris. I couldn't open it for some reason, but Paul just sent it to me, so I haven't had a chance to look at it. Yeah. Okay. We can revisit that. Okay. Well, certainly, Board, if you have any comments or thoughts that you want to share later, you know, at the next meeting, feel free. Thank you. All right. So Steve Saunders has joined us. Sorry I'm late, folks. Not a problem. Just make a note here. Steve is not at town right now. 100%. And Steve, we just got through a blue public comment from PICO. Yeah, there's an agenda and the other documents, the meetings that it should be like coming in August 17 or food, but we were just getting into and we were just getting into the old business. The first item was the community survey. [5:41] Speaker D (unidentified): And but I would like to comment that we had some discussion about the survey via email. Now, during the past month regarding the themes and further analysis regarding the community forum, and how it will. The themes from the forum related to the things from this question 19 from the survey, and how the themes were aligning. In so it's not as if there were, it was no activity around this survey in the past month. We had some [6:28] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): exchange regarding that via email, and I'll note also that I'm aware of at least two loose ends. One is mine. I have yet to write up the my notes from the small group session that I did. I think everybody else has, so I'm delinquent on that. I've got the notes. I basically just need to type them up, and also I believe we should say, yeah, we should [6:55] Speaker D (unidentified): say survey and forum because yeah, we also have to still do the sticky notes, right? [7:04] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): And yeah, that's the other thing that I was going to mention, that the sticky notes have, you have to be summarized, and Paula and I were going to do that. Okay, anything else on the community survey? And I was rolling the form into it. [7:17] Speaker C (unidentified): It's really- When you say the sticky notes. From the- [7:21] Speaker D (unidentified): This is- These- [7:23] Tico Brown: Oh,, okay. [7:24] Speaker C (unidentified): Not the app that we were talking about. App that kind of looked like sticky notes. And some apps are called sticky notes. Yeah,. [7:32] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): No,. These are real physical sticky notes. These are real. [7:34] Speaker D (unidentified): Oh, yeah. The blue and- And the yellow. The blue and sort of chartreuse. Yeah,. I thumbtized the yellow sticky notes. Okay. And typed up format and shared that with everyone already, but these ones we haven't done that yet. [7:55] Speaker E (unidentified): I think we're going to be returning to the survey quite a bit when we get to the part where we need to make recommendations. I think that's when the survey data is going to really be what we're talking about. [8:11] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Right, yeah, I agree, yeah, I agree. Okay, if there's nothing else on the community survey and the public forum, we'll move on to the Wayne flood vulnerability assessment, and that's yours. [8:26] Speaker D (unidentified): Paula, yeah, and you know that's going to be a personal responsibility matter for everyone to review that document, yeah, and so until everyone has had the opportunity to review that document, we're not going to be able to have a discussion. You've told us this before. Wait, what do we find? Yeah, and you know until we have an opportunity also to talk with Shannon, I haven't had a chance because we were supposed to get some copies, some hard copies of that, they had a lot of maps for it, right, and I haven't gotten any hard copies from her of that, and there were supposed to be hard copies made for this committee, and I have not received those yet. But at present it's It's only available electronically, except for Steve. Steve received a hard copy as a select board member. But all of us should, as soon as I get hard copies of that, if hard copies were able to be made, we had a very tiny printing budget for that, then I would do that. [9:51] Speaker C (unidentified): Send it, you know how I send documents to AI to give me a summary of it, and it wouldn't do it for this, but then I open it, so many maps and pictures that I think we really want either hard copies or it's probably too hard to find a phone, wouldn't you think? Oh yeah, it's [10:10] Speaker D (unidentified): You need to look on a larger flat electronic device, I think. Yeah, wow, I just flat out [10:19] Speaker C (unidentified): refuse, it couldn't open the link for some reason. Ah, which is really strange, and I've never seen that before, and I use it a lot, and unless it required a password or something. No, I think it was something with the URL, that was my impression. Weird, yeah, okay, so shall we 'll [10:46] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): We'll hold this over until we have copies that everybody can review. [10:56] Speaker C (unidentified): But one of the things that, you know, I'm hoping that if we start talking about Trello or some Trello app, and I don't know if we're all in favor of that or not, but it 's going to help me to when I leave in between meetings know what I have to do you know it's I'm just going to stare me in the face oh yeah I've never heard of trouble maybe not now but yeah I don't just tell me it's a program it has a way to you open things this I'm going to might start a consulting business that's what i started this for, but it makes little tabs and due dates and charts, and you can plan out many weeks, months in advance, you can assign things. [11:48] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): So project management is exactly what it is. Yeah, okay, yeah, that's that could be very useful. Okay, well we have, and we have some, that's actually on the new business agenda on this new business. Okay, so we're done for now with the flood vulnerability assessment, and we had these last two items are kind of holdovers that we had on the agenda for the last meeting or two, and I didn't know what to get to. One was at that time in village, which I remember looking at it, I don't [12:22] Speaker C (unidentified): have it with me, and I don't remember all about it at this point. That was just a small part of [12:28] Speaker D (unidentified): of weaning, right, that was shared, the document was shared via email. When I was looking for the flood vulnerability assessment, I just spotted a copy of it, and we should probably keep this copy over [12:41] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): there for our reference. That was put together by sustained way, I think, years ago, right, yeah, [12:46] Speaker C (unidentified): yeah, it's about the village, about a lot of the village, there's something like that. [12:51] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): So it really, yeah, looking at it is bringing some of it back that, you know, it had creative ideas is about how to develop the downtown area and things we'd like to do, and it's just, you know, it's just a potential source of ideas for us in terms of anything we want to include in the plan. It's from 2017. Yeah, so a little out of date, but you know, a lot of things haven't changed, well the ideas of you, yeah, exactly. Any discussion about that, or do you want to, do you want to hold that over, you didn't want to keep that on old business for the future, or what was the plan, what was the reason to look at it at this point? Well, it was basically informational, it was basically, this was a, you know, this was a report that had been put together talking about, as I recall, primarily about development of the downtown area. Are there ideas in there that we [13:46] Speaker C (unidentified): Want to use or that we think are still just take a look at. Yeah, you know, we won't know until we all look at it. Or I think we all should check off. Yeah, we looked at it. Yeah, and I think we [13:59] Speaker E (unidentified): should maybe check with the select board or the town manager because some of those ideas, I'm, I'm not clear if the select board adopted it and sort of began to implement it, but I do know that some of those things have been done. Some things that were suggested in that plan. [14:21] Speaker C (unidentified): It wasn't a jewelry store, the parking, that was part of it. [14:26] Speaker E (unidentified): Right, that all came as a result of that plan. I don't know if that was an official decision by the select board at the time to begin implementation of some of these ideas or how they were going to proceed with it. I don't know. [14:43] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Steve, do you have any recollection of that? Were you on the board at the time? No, I don't recall if that was approved as any kind of a document. It was a plan presented [14:52] Tico Brown: yeah, they may have used it. Yeah, this was not in relation to the to [14:59] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): the sonic. Yeah, I think it's related. I think it is related. [15:07] Tico Brown: Yeah, well, I'll check. I'll check with the board members and see [15:15] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): okay, see if there's any recollection of that. Okay, thank you. All right, anything else on the plan for Wayne? Bill? Hearing none, I also have on there the letter from Stan Davis, which you may remember, which, pardon me, oh right, yeah, in which he suggested, recommended that we do a review of all the ordinances and in particular the zoning ordinances, and my thinking is the planning board is doing that, does that periodically. In fact, we've just adopted quite recently a, an overall complete overhaul of the zoning ordinances. It's an ongoing process because there's always new legislation. In fact, we've got and we're, we're going through revising it again to make sure that it meets, that it comports with the new state legislation which requires greater density of housing, requires, you know, up to three and sometimes four houses per lot, allows auxiliary, the auxiliary dwelling stuff had already been enacted the year before that, so it's a, it's an ongoing process that is a major part of what the planning board does. And I think it's really beyond the scope of what we can do and should do. [16:41] Speaker E (unidentified): That's my view. I think part of what I think it's a 2 part thing. I think the planning board's obligation to make sure that our ordinances are in order is one part of it. But the other part I think that Stan is getting at is that there are some ordinances that should be changed, not necessarily to meet state standards. standards but because we might want to make some or recommend that we that the planning board look at these ordinances to change them. I know specifically for Stan is the minimum lot size that is really a barrier to a lot of people being able to own their own home. So that there's nothing wrong with having that minimum lot size in general except if our goal is to increase to increase housing. We want might want to recommend that we revisit that ordinance and adjust it or that the planning board do. it 's not our job right yeah but we can make recommendations [17:42] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): In terms of the goals and some of this overlaps into the strategies and policies section of the housing and plan of the housing chapter which is which is on the agenda for later on. But so for example the point 8.3 is review multi-family ordinance provisions and revise to permit greater density in the growth districts. The implementing parties are the town managers select board the planning board the code enforcement officer you know so that's the so it's certainly appropriate that we say if we. Want to hey we really should review these ordinances in order to potentially permit greater density but the actual job of doing that is not ours right exactly. I think we consider this input to the. [Speaker C (unidentified): Committee yeah okay.] But and you know and one on just a personal note here you know one of the things that Stan mentioned is something that resonates with me and it has to do with the solar ordinance because we have a very restrictive solar ordinance in terms of what you can do in terms of rooftop placement because of the fire department's requirement. It really originated with the fire department that all the solar panels be offset by at least three feet from the peak of the building which means that you can put. Many fewer solar panels on a house in wayne than in almost any other place and i mean that basically caused us to totally revise the solar project that we had that we implemented at our house several years ago and stan was saying this is really this really ought to be looked at and revised again because it limits the ability to implement solar panels and i've spoken i've raised that issue myself at the planning board and the answer is well fire department wants so again that is in our when we. Get to the end of the thing where we make suggestions for strategies or suggestions for things for different committees to look at that will be part of it. Yeah, same as, yeah, same example. I mean, it's interesting Stan saying I could respond to that when I was on the plane, but we tried to change lost size and setbacks. Stan was against it. Well, one of the things, you know, these things change. [20:18] Speaker C (unidentified): One of the things that says if the house is on fire and has solar panels on it, you can't spray the house down. Oh, there's some issues. Yeah, and I'm wondering if everyone want to put solar panels on, the companies that sell them tell the house owner that. 's all well. I when I think it almost behooves us, and this is where sometimes in the outage place, but I think people should be notified, and I almost would like us to do it, but it's probably not our position. I just, I'm really frustrated that someone can put on solar panels, have a house fire, and then the fire truck goes out, and then they're told, oh, we can't spray your house down. [21:14] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Now, what's the rationale for that? [21:16] Speaker C (unidentified): Because there's electricity up there. [21:18] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): So you shut the electricity out. [21:20] Speaker D (unidentified): I mean, there's an emergency shut off. [21:23] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): In fact, there's an emergency kill switch. Why would you put my name on the side of it? Like Chris, they specifically said the people who installed it specifically said this is specifically in case there is a fire or emergency, and you just need to kill it. 's right there it's [21:41] Speaker C (unidentified): branded because this is the emergency. I could be way off here, and if I'm off, I'm happily out on that. I 'd be very happy if I'm wrong in this. Yeah, the issue about the setbacks has to do [21:55] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): do as I understand it with if the firemen need to get on the roof. I don't know why they'd be up there, but apparently there are some situations. Well, we don't have any chimney in this building, but they were saying, you know, they need a certain amount of clear space on the roof basically to [22:18] Speaker D (unidentified): walk on that. Right, I don't know, this is the place or time. Yeah, but I just want to say that firefighters can spray water on solar panels during a house fire, but they follow specific safety rules because the panels can still generate electricity even though the kill [22:35] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): space that just kills it from coming down to your wire or something. So what water is safe to use? [22:41] Speaker C (unidentified): Okay, I thought the electricity will not cause. Yeah, okay, I'm happily wrong. Yeah. [22:48] Speaker D (unidentified): But this is an issue. It has caused many people to not install solar panels on their roofs because of [22:57] Speaker C (unidentified): Our respective solar ordinance. Oh, isn't the ordinance you got to just have more feet from the feet? That's the restriction, that's the restriction, which means that in our case [23:09] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): case, for example, rather than rather than, you know, 40 panels, maybe we will be able to put on 30 [23:17] Speaker C (unidentified): panels because the overhead of installing. Exactly what was the reason to have them down off the [23:23] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): peak? Right, move on. Yep, thank you. And so that's, we're done with the letter from Stan, so moving on to do business. So first thing we have is procedure for review of comprehensive plan chapters. We've got two draft chapters that are out, transfer the transportation chapter, which Paula took the lead on reviewing, and the housing, which I'm taking the lead on reviewing, but we really haven't crystallized or defined a consistent procedure for how we ought to do this. And Paula, I think, she was the one who asked that this be on the agenda. So Paula, Laura, she was on that issue. [24:15] Speaker D (unidentified): So in order to achieve the best possible outcome for every chapter, it's ideal in my experience from working on complicated technical documents in my work experience that you have a review procedure where multiple people have the opportunity to review the chapters before they are stamped as final. Many of you probably experience the same type of quality control procedure. It doesn't have to be arduous, it just has to be checked to be sure that it's complete, that it reads clearly, that it's not biased, and that it contains everything that we need to have it contain, because not one person knows everything. So in the case of the transportation chapter, I'm having a little bit of a hard time finishing it because I have some information that I need to get from Shannon that I haven't been able to get from her yet, and then there's one final little summary that we need to write that KB COG didn't write, that they want us to write about what's like the most important, you know, thing we want to say about transportation, and I didn't feel comfortable just writing that initially. So anyway, probably what needs to happen is at least one other person needs to read the document, in addition to me, very carefully. And someone who has an interest in and knowledge of the transportation systems in Wayne, for example, about the transportation chapter. And then there should be at least, in my opinion, at least one other person who reads it, who is going to leave all of the chapters, to be sure that it hangs together, all together, in the entire comprehensive plan document. And I'm volunteering to do that. I [26:47] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): mean, I think it's part of my job to read everything that comes through. I'm so glad. [27:04] Speaker D (unidentified): Yeah, I'm kind of, maybe everybody wants to read everything, but there's a difference between reading everything and reading a chapter very carefully and editing and point and editing [27:21] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): and reading it for copyediting and all of this is a product is going to be very much [27:28] Speaker C (unidentified): like what's in here right after over, yeah, it's going to look a lot, very much like that, [27:34] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): yeah, in content and link, yeah, they'll be, yeah, maybe not, they'll be, maybe not, well, I mean, my opinion is it'll generically just like a telephone book, likes a telephone, looks like telephone book, this, it'll look a lot like that, but the details are very different, I mean, we're gonna [27:52] Speaker C (unidentified): table the roads, we're gonna have rough, you know, some of that same day, this is the reason [28:00] Speaker D (unidentified): This is not in the current chapter. This table was not included in the current plan. In the current chapter that KB COG provided, they didn't include this. [28:15] Speaker C (unidentified): Yeah, I'm probably just gonna trust the table. [28:17] Speaker D (unidentified): But they included some tables and they, you know, they included, because remember, this is the old comprehensive. So we have to remember also that we still don't have the regulations promulgated from the updated statute. So we're working off of the old regulations, I guess. [28:55] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Yes, is this can regulate what, yeah,, okay, and we're waiting for somebody at the state to do something to give us a blow. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's because, I mean, inevitably there's a delay of a year or sometimes longer from new legislation to implementing regulations, and that's, that's the stage we're in now, because it was legislation passed just about a year ago. [29:21] Speaker C (unidentified): go ahead, i'm just trying to get an idea of what this is, so if i say yes, how well the spirit could [29:26] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): be, you know, i think it's a little longer than what's in the burn, yeah, comprehensive, i mean, i'd [29:35] Speaker C (unidentified): be willing to take that on, i think that something definable of what i'm looking for, and that's at least definable, and you know, i mean, the table that we get from some like these tables, i don't [29:53] Speaker D (unidentified): I mean, you received a copy of the transportation chapter on KVCAD, so you don't have to say anything in this meeting right now about the transportation chapter. You can go and look at that and see what you think. Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. [30:09] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Let me move the discussion back a little bit to the, how do we want to proceed, not just with respect to the transportation chapter, but generally. Now, let me say the alternative, there are lots of different ways we could do it. We could have one person do everything, but I think absolutely what Paul said, it makes sense that you want to have more than one set of eyes on it. You could go to the other extreme and say, every chapter should be brought to the full committee and we should go over every word of it together, but I welcome your thoughts about that. I think that would really slow us down in terms of it. Yeah, yes. Well, I think every chapter should come to the members of the committee, but we're not expecting everybody to go word to word, so we can at least peruse it. Oh, absolutely. When you, who didn't go word to words, hey, listen, look at this, I'll have at least seen it. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, we're not talking about hiding them, but no, it's a question of who has responsibility for really working on it and getting it into shape, because all of these and We're starting with in a sense the easy stuff because Katie Kaga's done a lot of the work for us, and it's still a lot of work. You know, when we get to the chapters that we're going to be essentially drafting from scratch, well, we may be able to go back and base it off what we did in 2016, and in some cases it's going to require lots of revisions or even a whole new chapter. So anyway, there's a lot of work. That's all I'm going to do. [31:42] Speaker C (unidentified): Well, I'll volunteer to, you know, help with transportation. I do think that's what we've got to do is have assignments to find, you know, measurable tasks. Yeah. Because that's, between meetings, I'm frustrated. I'm like, what am I supposed to be doing? Yeah,, yeah,. [32:08] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): And that will get to the management software. Where that's the, you know, that's the item. C, Chris and Lynette, do you, do you have any comments? I know it's hard for you to raise your hand, or unless maybe you can see that, Paul. Chris. Yeah, I have a couple of comments on this. I think it would be, this is just, I'll just propose something that for each one of these, there's currently four chapters that we've received, transportation, community profile, housing, and housing policies and strategies, and I think it would be helpful if like, if we set up like a two-person team that goes over each one, that meets offline, of course, maybe in person, but you know, sit down, bring up the document, compare it to the 2016 document, and then go off and find information that's a lot that's missing, or make edits to it as a, as a two-person team, either live or not live, does, doesn't really matter, and then maybe that way they can, you know, those two people can sit down and immerse themselves in one thing and use each other to sort of get through it, as opposed to just saying okay, one person, you're, you're responsible for 18 pages of housing, go off and do it. Some of these chapters are pretty big. Community profile is 13 pages. Housing is 18. So that's just a thought. Yeah, I think that's consistent with what Paula suggested. Steve, I think you had a comment. [33:54] Tico Brown: Well, it seems to me you have to start at the end of when this is going to be submitted to the final authorities on this thing, and figure out how much time we actually have to complete the thing, which maybe you've already talked about, because I wasn't here in the first meeting, but there are so many eyes that are gonna be looking at this at one point or another, that we've got to get to a point where we have a rough track, which is what you're at right now, right? [34:31] Speaker D (unidentified): It's not rough, it's pretty polished. [34:33] Tico Brown: Really? I don't think I'm going to insult you. [34:35] Speaker D (unidentified): No, that's okay, because K.V. Cogg sent a draft of transportation, and I polished the draft. So it's very close to being finished in that particular draft. [34:49] Tico Brown: And I don't want to get stuck on your first thing, right? [34:53] Speaker D (unidentified): Yes, but let me just say that for other chapters that we have to write from scratch, we will have very rough drafts. [35:03] Tico Brown: Right, oh exactly, oh to be, to be discussed as a group, yes, presented by whoever did that particular right chapter and polishing it up as a group and then leaving it for a final edit for grammar and all that stuff. But again, I don't know what we're talking about in terms of time. I mean, I see the transportation chapter coming to us, let's just say next meeting. We all read it in the meantime and are ready to pick it apart and do the best we can to have it in shape and then put it aside and then once we've done that with all the chapters, then we bring it all together and, well, I got a question, gotta go to the time, it's gonna go to just answer Steve's [36:00] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): question about the time frame. So the legal deadline is 12 years from the effective date of the last plan, so we really have out to 2028. We had talked about having a target of getting it done next year and I think we should aim for that and shoot for that and try it, but you know, I would not be in the least surprised if that slips because in addition to our work for putting it in, we have to go back and hold hearings both to continue to get general input but also as when we have a draft plan we got it, we got to present it to the community and of course it has to be approved at the time but and then it has to go to the state. So as you said, it's a, it's a state before the town, before the town meeting, isn't it? I don't know, whatever, not sure about that. Last time I went to the state first, yeah, and then the state said this is okay, then we brought that down meeting said hey this is right, this people want to do this, okay, I may be wrong, I had the hearings before that, but yeah, so the date of the soft target, it is. So I mean, I would say it really should not slip past 2028. At that point we began to have some potential fiscal consequences in terms of grants, we're not eligible for things like that, so you know, and I don't think that's a huge threat because sometimes at 30 years old, yeah, so in my mind, but we don't want to be sitting here for three years. No, well, that's another thing. So I would say in my mind the soft target is 2027 and then the hard target is 2028 and by and then what does That mean well if we, if in fact the town meeting is held at the usual time, you know, at the beginning of the summer in June, to say 2027 is the target, it means really we gotta have done before June 2027, said it, but that's the soft target in my view. May, yeah, well so I mean April, well in advance of June, yeah. So how many chapters, I can't remember, are we exactly, are we going off the chat? [38:23] Speaker D (unidentified): this we have a work we have a i 'm not sure if you didn't received the checklist yeah can we get you that checklist no it's [38:41] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): About, it's about eight chapters. [38:45] Speaker C (unidentified): Okay, I see in this thing required chapters goes all the way at 11, but one's historic and article, I don't know what this is, course actually the plan must include meet completely in [38:58] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Consistency, yeah, they'll say 10. Okay, 11. Okay, 11. Yeah, okay, there are 11 required chapters. [39:08] Speaker D (unidentified): I'm sorry, we can't, I can't run this copy because, yeah, we have a timeline that we have set out and works like that historic [39:22] Speaker C (unidentified): And archaeological, you can say that blue, we're not going to change that much history before [39:28] Tico Brown: Are we at in that timeline right now? Some people like to jump in, yes, and [39:37] Speaker C (unidentified): For sure, I mean, can we [39:39] Tico Brown: Should for one a month, yeah, and focus on just the chapter at a time, yeah, thing is like if Paul is [39:49] Speaker C (unidentified): Saying the transportation, we better get that done within a month, it's almost finished, right? [39:55] Speaker D (unidentified): It's almost, it's, it can be done, it's very well, yeah, I think that's a good, consider it [40:01] Speaker C (unidentified): Okay, almost finished, okay, so I think that's good, there's a good thought, approximately one [40:11] Tico Brown: One chapter a month, yeah, if we're thinking about along those lines, well let's think that this way [40:17] Speaker C (unidentified): Too, let's think of maybe dividing this up into three or four and do it in parallel, because I don't think that we should do, we're all going to do water restoration in October and natural resources from November, you know, I don't, that's inefficient, so maybe look at it like, you know, have pods or groups and, you know, divide up, divide and conquer. Well, we had my, yeah, and I can't [40:52] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Find it in my notes right now, but back at the beginning we had them did go through and kind of tentatively allocate which people would have responsibility for which chapters. I remember, for example, was the business chapter, I said I'd take the housing chapter, I can't remember all the others, and I don't, but we should revisit that again, and I do remember that the problem [41:17] Speaker C (unidentified): Is and I'm going to be honest with you guys, actually I'm going to, for once I'm going to be on, I'm a little and overwhelmed thinking me taking on one of these on my own, you know, the one that was assigned to me, which I put my name down, but the last time we did pair up [41:44] Tico Brown: I remember, yeah, distinctly, yeah, I need to be embarrassed with somebody, big help [41:48] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): More, yeah, the strength for each person, yeah, and that makes that feel better that you're not optimally responding, exactly, yeah, to keep you on task, well, how about this then, how about at our next meeting let's, let's revisit something that we went over superficially and at the very beginning and really tie that down as to which chapter, who's going to take responsibility for which chapters and what timeline, and now it's going to be pairs if we, I think, I think we've got a consensus that system makes Sense to do with our bears, everybody on board on that, I'm [42:28] Speaker D (unidentified): Just checking in with the people online, yeah [42:32] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Any comments, no, I 'm in agreement with what you're saying, it's just fine, keep going, okay, yep, keep going, okay, and so let's, so we should each think about in the meeting, we should each go back and revisit because I can't find right now my notes from work, you know, that allocation of responsibility that we did initially, but we should revisit that and in the meantime think about what chapter or chapters do you each want to work on, national resources for me, yeah, and but we're gonna, we're gonna Need two people on each chapter, so you know, think about who you and i think we should have a lead and a and a you know a co-lead, yeah, and think about whether you want to be a lead or a colleague for what, for which chapters, and next meeting we'll, we'll, we'll put that on the agenda and we'll come up with a specific list of okay, here's who's going to work on these chapters and there's the time or time frame that we're gonna be working on it. Does that sound good? That does. [43:43] Speaker C (unidentified): So this is the one I had and one of the things is conduct a three-year review of plan. That'll be a key question, but some of these are bigger than others. That's the only concern I have is, so maybe if one group has a small one, then and they get done early they can go and grab another one, yeah [44:11] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): The natural resources one in particular is quite large so compared to the other one, but we already got that draft from [44:20] Speaker D (unidentified): The Inland Fisheries and Wildlife and Lloyd had the interns working on some elements of it, but no material has ever been shared. And so that will come in the next agenda item. [44:38] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Could you repeat that, Paula? So Inland Fisheries and Wildlife has submitted something for the natural resources section of this document? [44:46] Speaker D (unidentified): Yes, very early on in the committee. Yeah. In the committee that were, it was shared. [44:53] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Right, in the very early stages. Yes,, I understand, okay. [44:56] Speaker D (unidentified): Right. The Department of Inland Industries and Wildlife, working with Habitat, they shared a detailed document, but they said you could just make this the chapter. And I don't think we'll do that. I think we'll customize it to be our own. [45:15] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): So I do have a copy of that here. It's a cover letter. It's a total of six pages, but the first page is a cover letter. So it's really a 5 page document. Yeah, it's really great content. [45:28] Speaker D (unidentified): But the interns worked on some content for the natural resources chapter, and the Conservation Commission also has a strategic plan for the town of Wayne that they would like to also provide some input into the comprehensive plan as well. [45:51] Speaker E (unidentified): Okay and our current chapter as Chris mentioned is quite extensive so I'm sure that a lot of that's going to need to be incorporated into what we're doing now because a lot of it [46:04] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): hasn't changed. Yeah, good. Now I will, I will tell you that my own thoughts in terms of, in terms of chapters that we have to really write from scratch, as opposed to having KB Cog do it, is to use AI to help us write it. Yeah. And, but, you know, so at a minimum, it needs to be pointed in the right direction. It needs to have, the AI needs to have copies of the old plan or of all relevant documents, such as the one we're talking about in the case of Inland Fisheries. But then it can go out into the web and access all kinds of other stuff too, so I think that's potentially a very helpful tool. And as we get into writing those from scratch chapters, I think it, if we're going to do that, it probably would be good to have it so we're all using the same AI and using the same system. I mean, it doesn't have to be that way. You could use one AI, you could use Quad for one chapter and the Chat GPT for another, and I've looked at this before and there is at least one AI out there that's, that's kind of specifically geared to planning. It's probably at a, you know, you've had a much more sophisticated level than we need, but hey, that's, that's okay. What was the name of it? The name of that is, oops, right here. [47:40] Speaker E (unidentified): Urban Planner GPT. Oh, interesting. Do we know the number of chapters that we are going to need to do from scratch? [47:55] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): We do. We just, you know, we talked about the 11 and the ones were... I think K.B. Pogg is doing four, if that memory serves. And the first one in page three in [48:07] Speaker C (unidentified): our ideology let's say that doesn't have to be redone or at least if we at the end if we have time we can do it but if not we just grab the one that was used so my suggestion would be [48:23] Speaker E (unidentified): When we're looking at dividing the labor here, we have several people on this committee who clearly are more comfortable with AI, more familiar with it, and I'm wondering if those people would be better used to create the chapters that we that we know we have to create, and the rest of us can focus on the polishing, the editing, and even the polishing and editing after the AI written things, because there's probably going to be some glitches at least. But I know I would be completely lost facing the use of an AI tool to create a chapter. I'm much better with a draft in front of me, working through the draft and making corrections and changes and polishing. Well, [49:22] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): I mean, I think I would, I would, if we, if we do it that way, I think that person, and it's probably Chris, because he's the most technologically proficient one of our of our group, I think, is, you know, winds up having, I think, a disproportionate burden of the, because so much of it, the AI is great, but, you know, it's the old story of garbage out, garbage in, garbage out, you know, what you ask it, how you ask it, and what you tell it to do are critical. And that, in effect, becomes, you know, the drafting or a major part of the drafting. So I think in my view is it makes, I think that the process we talked about having two people working on it is, it makes a lot of sense. I think we can leave it up to those people to the extent that they want to use AI or not, whether they find it helpful or not. Chris, I don't know whether you feel comfortable being a kind of a technical resource for, you know, somebody like myself who has maybe, you know, some background in it, but not a whole lot. And I may need some handholding if I go down that path. How do you feel about that, Chris? Chris? I have no problem doing that. Just to be clear, I'm not like, as of this moment, an AI expert, okay? But I'd be very happy to learn it and to, I use it all the time anyway right now to do a lot of things, but to do mostly coding, but it can crank out Word documents like crazy. So yeah, I'd be happy to help you out. Or OK, and it sounds like Bob also has done tons of work with this as well. [51:17] Speaker C (unidentified): So, yeah, so, you know, maybe Stevie, you and I can get together and learn from each other. [51:27] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): OK, you two will be the designated resources for A.I. input. We're going to get everything done. And you guys know that, by the way, it's three chapters that come from K.V. [51:40] Speaker D (unidentified): Have population and demographics housing and transportation and then the town manager writes the fiscal capacity and capital investment plan chapter oh I'd [51:56] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Forgotten about that one actually four five six not adding so that's four chapters right so I'm saying the ones that [52:06] Speaker C (unidentified): Dvconn doesn't do in other words we're going to have to maybe work harder on our six if I don't include the historic yeah well that's about one [52:18] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Chapter for each of us right so oh we got what we have seven if you include the archaeology it's an exact fit because we have seven numbers yeah so okay so all right so are we do we have a general of consensus about how we want to proceed on the procedure everybody comfortable with that [52:39] Speaker D (unidentified): And well can you summarize it a little bit just yeah because I yeah go ahead I 've been taking the notes we didn't take a volunteer oh yeah thank you and I'll put in different review protocols or proposed by members. OK. For the note so. What's our consensus? [53:04] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Well, what I heard, what I believe the consensus to be is that we should have a lead designated for each chapter and a co-lead to work with that person. So at least two people have primary responsibility for drafting and editing. And I will, as chair, review also each chapter with substance and to format, and with an eye also to keeping it cohesive and coordinated between the different chapters. And then, when that process yields a draft that the leads are comfortable in presenting to the committee, it should go to the committee for review, discussion, and approval. That's my vision of how it would work. [54:04] Speaker D (unidentified): I think we should have some strict time guidelines, time restrictions, perhaps I should use the word restrictions on the parameters for reviewing when the chapters go to the entire committee for review, because we don't want to have the a delay on being able to move things forward once it goes to the full committee to having the opportunity to review, but then if it drags on and on and on and so I haven't read it I haven't read it and haven't heard it, but i want to read it but i haven't read it. But i want to read it but i haven't read it, right, so i think we should force ourselves to have a strict time parameter on review at that. [55:08] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Very last step, yeah, i think that's a very good idea and i and i think another way to restate the same proposal is i think we should have a meeting essentially dedicated to the review of each chapter, we say okay you know on november 10 we're going to be reviewing the housing chapter, everybody be prepared, we're going to sit down, we're going to go over it, we may need to review. [55:39] Speaker D (unidentified): Two chapters, because if you want to review one chapter at each meeting that's 11 months, well we don't have that much time, well we can have more than one meeting per month. [55:53] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Some chapters may take more of you though, some tasks can be a lot bigger than others. Sure. Sure. Right. [55:59] Speaker D (unidentified): But so we may either meet and I saw Lynette nodding her head, but we might either need to review two chapters per meeting or have more meetings per month to get through everything. everything if we're going to have everybody review every chapter, yeah. [56:27] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): And I and I would I would urge well you know we'll we'll get to it when we get to it, but you know I think hopefully that the minor editing will have been done before it gets to the table, I think what we should be looking for is you know the big ideas like you know do we want more affordable housing and if so what kind and you know what changes should we be making as opposed to you know this line here doesn't say it in exactly the way i'd like it to say it, you know i mean not that everybody's. Input is welcome but i think we need to focus on the big issues, there are big issues that we. [57:08] Speaker E (unidentified): All need to come to grips with, so in our being assigned a chapter is part of that work to tease out some potential recommendations that go at the end or is that a separate step at the end, that's that's that's very much part of it now I. [57:27] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Will point out before Paula in talking about the four chapters we have. You talked about the housing chapter and the policies document that goes with it. In my mind they're, they're, they're two sides of the same point there, they go together. You know, they're both housing. It's just that one deals mostly with facts and the other one deals more with policies, recommended policies primarily. What should we be doing and how should we be moving forward with that? And in fact the format of that, we'll get to this as the last item of business, but the format of that is a very useful format I think, because it specifically says, you know, okay, what's the policy, what's the strategy, who's the implementing party, and the vast majority in the case of housing it's usually the town manager, the select board, finding, etc. You know, but that's, yes, that absolutely is an integral part of what we're doing, and that I'm thinking when we talk about the chapter it includes those recommendations. Yes, now interestingly so [58:33] Speaker D (unidentified): for the housing chapter they included the implementation plan table for transportation. They did not. Yeah, so this table that was included. Yeah, we're housing. They did not give us that for transportation. [58:53] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Yeah, I did not give this to. Yeah,, yeah,, I mean we need it. So why is that? We don't know. That's right. I mean, I, my guess is that it's because when housing is really in a sense, you know, at the, at the core of what we're doing here, because it's something that we as a, as a way in the town have a lot of authority over, you know, through our zoning code and through our zoning policies. Transportation not so much, you know, a lot of that is in the hands of the state and the feds, and we have, we have some control over it, but frankly a lot less leverage. And so I think there's a lot less there to say oh you should be doing this and this, or looking at this and this, but it's still there and we still need that kind of analysis and recommendations. Maybe it's a lot shorter, but it should still be there somewhere. [1:00:02] Speaker E (unidentified): So Paula, when you were reviewing that, your real close reading of it, did you come across parts that kind of spoke to you and said, okay, they're obviously suggesting this is a recommendation of something we should do? Were those obvious or not? [1:00:19] Speaker D (unidentified): No, I wasn't thinking of it because,, yeah, I wasn't thinking of the implementation table at that time. [1:00:29] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): So let me offer my own thoughts about the model that we should be having in mind as we move through this. And the foundation is, what are the facts on the ground where we start with? What does our housing look like? What does our population look like in the case of the population chapter? What does our transportation network look like? That's the factual basis. Then the layer on top of that is where do we want it to be over the next 10 years? Where do we want it to go? Well, the first thing we have to do is this accurate or is this number accurate? Well, all right. I've looked at this table before. So there's been no houses built since 2020. Let's not get into the weeds already. No,. [1:01:13] Speaker C (unidentified): That's what we need to look at. Oh, absolutely. I agree. [1:01:18] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): I was just using that as an example. Absolutely. But that's the foundation. You know, what are the facts? What are we starting with? Where do we want to get to in terms of our plan for the future? And that's where we have to say, you know, what are the desires of the community? What do we think is achievable? What do we think is desirable? And we have to and I think we're guided by the community's intent. But I think we have to bring our own judgment to bear on that as well. And then the third step is, okay, and then what's our plan for implementing this? Now again, I think this is, this is a good, this document here is a good roadmap for what that looks like when you lay that out in a fair amount of detail. I don't think we have to go all the way to say, okay, you know, we need to change this section of this ordinance to say this. We might in some cases. But in the vast majority of the cases, we're going to say, look at this, consider doing this, and we recommend making this change, and that's not going to be up to the select board in nine times out of 10, or the town meeting, or the planning board as the case may be. But all three. So all three of those levels need to be considered in terms of what we're writing and drafting. Maybe each two-person team, when they sit down and they tackle a chapter, just write up sort of like a first summary paragraph on, okay, here's where we stand currently as far as we know, and here are the things that we're suggesting that we should add for 2026 that's a result of some of the community surveying that we've been doing. And, you know, it's more of a big idea summary of here are the things that we want to add to this chapter that weren't there in 2016. You know, it's what's new because I think there's going to be some of those. But I like that idea, Richard. I don't know if it makes sense for the two person team to do it or for everybody to do it, but it should be done at some point. Right. So, well, I mean, to me, it's an integral part of all of the two person team should be doing it. And then when they when they bring it to the committee we should be you know looking at the picture and saying okay is this really in fact a is it is the picture we've got here accurate you know as you're pointing out for it that's that's job number one job number two is you know do we agree with the goals maybe we don't maybe we have a debate about no we don't want to do it this way we want to do it that way or we don't want to do it at all that's what the committee is all about in my view I think so it was going over here I mean I talked about using AI and AI is great for you know putting it all together and getting you all that but those ultimate decisions about where do you want to go and what do you want to look at that's that's what we should be deciding right unless we want we shouldn't be in line for that [1:04:23] Speaker C (unidentified): Yeah I don't think I'll ask you how much coffee I should have okay so [1:04:32] Speaker D (unidentified): Procedure for review of comprehensive content is the item we're on right so [1:04:41] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Any further discussion or thought about that hearing none okay we can check that off next item is document management and storage and again this is different from the project management software so let's be clear this is a point that I mean it's kind of a fundamental point that Paula has brought up says well okay we're starting to produce all these documents we've got all this right where is it all I mean I have my copies on my stored on my computer but is there a central repository now Unfortunately it would be very helpful to have Shannon here as part of this discussion because if anybody should be responsible for kind of warehousing at all I would I would have thought it would be her but she might [1:05:27] Speaker D (unidentified): Disagree about that now I'll just say Chris when I opened the computer when I when we walked into the conference room the computer had Dropbox open on the computer and I don't know if that was this a message that Shannon was trying to send us did you happen to have a conversation with her [1:05:53] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): About story, no, but maybe so. It sounds like she may have a Dropbox account now, right? [1:05:59] Speaker D (unidentified): Well, it said sign in or create an account, so it was, it wasn't like it was open and horrible, but Dropbox is uploaded on this computer. So if we wanted to, and I mean, I have a Dropbox account and I think you have a Dropbox account. Does anybody else have a Dropbox account? [1:06:26] Speaker C (unidentified): I do, but I think if Shannon has a Dropbox, we wanna create an account for her Dropbox, right? In other words, if I have my Dropbox, that's distinct from yours, which is distinct from Shannon, she needs to have her Dropbox and us to get profiles that we can get into hers, I think. Yeah, actually you can actually share, you can have [1:06:52] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): like five or six different Dropbox accounts. I'm doing this now with my, with a team of people, we all have different Dropbox accounts but we share a directory, a particular directory, so we all have write or read or whatever access to a directory. So all seven of us could have, you know, different Dropbox accounts and we could use one of Shannon's directories like, you know, called Wayne Comprehensive Plan. And we could basically all have write access to it. [1:07:24] Tico Brown: But we all need a account. [1:07:27] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Yes, that's true. I think we all need a account. You know, the first account for three machines is free. So anything after that is requires money, but I'm, I've been working with the free account for [1:07:41] Speaker C (unidentified): you know over a decade, so is there an advantage if we have to pay, is there advantage of that, does that give Google Docs or, you know, Google storage an advantage in that? I think that would be free for all. I don't know, I don't think there's any significant difference between [1:08:01] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): I use both of those, and I think Google Docs and Dropbox is pretty much interchangeable. They're about the same. The only difference is that Google Storage is tied to their office tools, like Google Sheets, and they're equivalent of PowerPoint and Word and stuff online. And that's really how they differ the most. but and chris i 've used both of them and maybe it's the limitations of the way i use them but i mean i've used dropbox primarily for transporting documents that i've worked on my own software usually word versus with google docs you really you should be working on the document in Google Docs and it's and it's great for it's great for collaborative stuff where multiple people are doing editing on the same document because then you've got a common document but in the scenario we're talking about And it might work if with this, with this co-lead idea, because we are going to potentially have more than one person working on the same document. But I personally, I found that kind of a limitation. I personally prefer to work on [1:09:19] Speaker D (unidentified): the document on my own software. But that's just, I guess another question is what software are we going, should we use? Does everyone have Word, or are we going to use Google? Or I think [1:09:44] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): it would be, my recommendation would be to stick with Microsoft Word in Excel and just keep it simple from that standpoint. The good news is that with something like, if you, if you want to use Google Docs you can, and you can just export it to a Word file, right? So yeah, and that, and the same is true with Libra Office, which is a Linux equivalent. You can use Libra, which is an open source, you don't have to have a license of anything, you can just, you have Libra, but you can, you can switch it to Word. I think yeah, you can save it as a Word document. Okay, you can save it as multiple file formats, and one of them is a docx. So yeah, okay. [1:10:21] Speaker D (unidentified): And you know how to do that, to save it as a docx? Because I've had a little problem with the documents, it's been in an unusual file format, but there's, there you're running it, yeah you do [1:10:38] Speaker C (unidentified): run any glitches every now and then with compatibility, but [1:10:45] Speaker D (unidentified): Lynette, do you have Word in Excel? Well you're, you're muted Lynette, you're nodding yes. I have it, yes. Steve, what about you? 've got Word too. So almost all of us have Word. We just, we just bought it because we got too frustrated, so we've got it now too. But, and we should also, another thing with document management is we should probably establish a file name convention and try to stick with a file name convention, if everyone would thinks that might be helpful, in order to establish version control because there sometimes can be an issue with vertical control. You put a date after it or something? Yeah, that's, that's a good part. Sometimes what I found is if you put the date at the beginning, it will automatically sort all documents sorted according to date. So if you put two zero two six zero nine two one, you put the year first, you put the year first, then the month and then the day, then it automatically sorts the document according to the date. Then you can put seat like ch for chapter, and then you can put the chapter name, and that way it'll always sort the document according to the date. And so if you revise the document, you revise the deal, maybe we want to put [1:12:43] Speaker C (unidentified): Put chapter first because we want it to sort by chapter, for right, we don't want some chapter. [1:12:49] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Again, date, yeah, good point, so we use that, Chris, yeah, sorry, go ahead, Chris, if we use something like Dropbox, then we can just name the files the way we want them, we can keep them consistent, and then you'll have it right in front of you, won't have to remember, okay, what's the file format that we're using for this thing, and we can just organize the revisions, I usually do the same kind of thing, Paula, date and underscore and then the name and then maybe an R1 or an R2 for revision if necessary, but. It's a great idea, we should be consistent with file naming, and yeah, like Dropbox or Google will help us with that, yeah, and we're using a convention similar to that for the minutes, for example, and just from memory, I mean, I think it identifies that as, you know, compound committee minutes, and then and then after that, the date in the format you see, okay, so and that and that, I think, meets your concern, which I think is a good one, because you don't want to have different chapters mixed up, and you want. To first of all, what is it, that's the date, but so okay, so I think if we can agree on that file format, and very important point, that particularly when we get into the chapters, we need to be very clear which version we're looking at, because it can get very confusing, oh, I'm looking at the one that was, you know, two weeks ago, and you're looking at the one that was last week, and we're. [1:14:26] Speaker D (unidentified): Not on the same page, right, I just want to call attention to the fact that we have 10 minutes left, okay, all right, so maybe we need to talk to Shannon about what options we have regarding storage, okay, do you want to, because I had to talk to her about the road commissioner job. [1:14:54] Tico Brown: Description, okay, yes, take up, one of the things that we need to be absolutely sure of is that whatever we're doing, whatever we're working on, the public has access to that information, because if you want, if you want to get criticism very quickly and very harshly, leave something out and you will be reminded really quickly, so yeah, and a lot of this discussion about how we layer, how we do this, it's mostly over my head, but my only concern, real concern, is making sure that the public has access to this. Information, yeah, you think. [1:15:40] Speaker D (unidentified): The public needs access to all of the drafts of the comp plan, well, let me just point out for. [1:15:48] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Example that the draft plan housing chapter is attached as a as an attachment to today's today's agenda. Yeah, how do you open it? I couldn't. Well, I looked at it may have been in it and again if I could sometimes I open our emails there's a whole bunch of it opens a whole bunch responsible and most of the attachments are gone. Well so but this is so what I'm talking about is the town website and so the and so for the agenda so what I do because I go through with the agenda I go through several drafts typically yeah and then the official final version is the one that shows up on the on and Shannon is the one who does the final touches so it may be me but I went to that agenda and i couldn't open any of those links. Sorry chris that i'm sorry to try to get in there i would agree with ford on that i tried as well to i downloaded a pdf and it's got this docx link to it but there's really no link there it's just it's just a bunch of text so yeah so something was missing okay well all right that's a technical issue we need to eat but that would be where you'd get that stuff off the agenda but my point is simply that yes absolutely the draft chapters maybe not every draft chapter you know but certainly at the at the point so for example we've talked about you know the co-leads will be working on it they'll work it up and say okay it's now ready for review by the committee at that At that point, it should be on the agenda, it should be attached to the agenda, and the public has access to that through that town website, and they should, absolutely. How many people are going to actually look at it? Probably not too many, but the important thing is they have the opportunity if they want to. Plus, at a certain point, we will go out and hold hearings on it, and we need to get it out then. So, Richard, I'm sorry to interrupt again, but I just looked at the town website, and when you go to, there's three buttons. One says View Agenda, one says Agenda PDF, and the other one says Packet PDF. Right. The PDF documents do not contain usable links, but the agenda does. [1:18:13] Tico Brown: Absolutely does. Yeah,, yeah. [1:18:15] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Yeah, you can't, you can't click on me, it's, yeah, they're not, they're not embedded links in the PDF. Okay, that's what I want, I was in the PDF, yes, that's the problem. Okay, so it doesn't work, you just got to go to the agenda only. Okay, yeah, there were two choices, yeah. Okay, so Paul, you're going to talk to Shannon, yeah, I guess, sounds like subject to, you know, further discussion and what Shannon has available. We're talking about using the Dropbox as the primary storage, is that what I heard? I'm okay with that, yeah. You have a Dropbox account, Steve? You do, Ford, do [1:18:59] Speaker D (unidentified): you? I think I do, I don't even get a, pretty easy, I think, yeah. Okay, Lynette, you said I do, yeah, you do. [1:19:07] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Okay, so I think it sounds like everybody does, yeah. I mean, I haven't used it in quite a while, but I don't know how to use the past, you know, I have a problem, you know how to use it, yeah, everyone, okay, you know. So if anyone knows, if Shannon can create a directory for the Wayne Comprehensive Plan and then invite Dropbox users which are based with an email address, then we'll all have access to the same thing. We [1:19:41] Speaker C (unidentified): might find that dropbox is important in explorer which would be really nice for windows you know explore you know the internet or no explorer the thing where you search for folders and stuff for documents adventures yeah he would probably need [1:19:59] Speaker D (unidentified): need to know in order for her to do that, Chris, she'll probably need to know how our Dropboxes are set up, like what our email address is associated, which email address is associated [1:20:14] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): with our Dropbox, right? If you want, I can, I can give it a shot tomorrow morning and I can set one up and invite everybody. Great, fabulous. I need to talk to you, but it's like ancient history for me with the Dropbox, but we'll see, yeah, you can't agree, but okay, but I heard, so first you will set up Dropbox and invite everybody on the committee, correct? Yes, yeah, I'm assuming that everybody's email address that has been on the distribution is the email address that they use for their Dropbox account, yes. I don't know, I think, well, yeah, and if it's not the way, oh no. [1:20:55] Speaker D (unidentified): No, it's called Dropbox, not Box. Box is different than Dropbox. Yes, it is. That's true. [1:21:03] Speaker E (unidentified): Chris, how would I find that out? I'm not sure. It might be linked to an old school. [1:21:10] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Yeah, well, if you can bring up Dropbox on either a phone or a computer as an application, then your profile should contain your email address. So you can change it? You I your Dropbox account you I think you can change it. Yeah, you have to log into it probably on a on a using a web browser first. Yeah, okay, mine is just pnercessian and gmail.com. Okay, and I'm 99 certain it's the same email address I'm using now. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Wow. Cool. Okay. All right. All right. That concludes document management and storage. [1:22:00] Speaker D (unidentified): All right. We're at 7.27. [1:22:02] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): We've got three minutes and four items left. [1:22:05] Speaker D (unidentified): We'll wait. So we have to defer. All right. [1:22:07] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Well, let's at least get to the project management software, to Trello, which we touched on, Bob touched on briefly before. Who wants to take the lead on that? [1:22:22] Speaker C (unidentified): I would like to, yeah. So what I'll do, if Trello is a possibility, I'll buy up some cards and strategy with AI in Trello because I just linked it to them. I'll submit it to you guys for review. I mean, the question is, do we want to use Trello? We want to do Trello. Trello, I can model up based on the chapters that we talked about and that kind of stuff and the teams and stuff, have something there for us to look at. But if we don't want to use Trello, the reason why I wanted to discuss this, it was like, no, Trello, we don't want to use that. We want to use Microsoft. It has some competitor, but some of these are charged. You know and you know I have used project management software in the past I don't even [1:23:17] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): remember what software it was you know and I have no I'm totally agnostic about [1:23:24] Speaker D (unidentified): who's the best one or something about that. Yeah, we have to be willing to engage with it online that's like we would we would each have to make a commitment to engage with the software [1:23:39] Speaker C (unidentified): Yeah and you can look at it on your phone you know oh okay this is my activity yeah you know you don't have to be in front of your computer and you can so yeah and if I if I devise this I'm not going to put a lot of energy it might look like I'm going to use AI to help me get categories ideas and if we say I for me I want something I want between meetings I want to know what I got to do and so I'm gonna use it even if you guys don't [1:24:12] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): No, I think I think it's a very it can be very useful. It's a very it fall it goes back to Steve's comments before about, okay, we should have a timeline, we should have a clear, you know, this task and this person is working on it and this is what it needs to be done and that our project management software basically does. So at least at my level of dealing with it, Lynette and Chris, do you have any thoughts about the project management software? [1:24:41] Speaker E (unidentified): Absolutely none. I'm not familiar with any of it, so I'll I'll figure it out when it comes my way. [1:24:50] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Okay, as far as that goes, yeah, I've used a bunch of those in the past and they're only as good as the users that are using it, you know, so yeah, if three if four out of seven people are using it, then it's not that good, you know, so it just needs to be we have to kind of be willing to commit to a brand new toy to use and I'm sure it would help, but it just all of us need to be like kind of fired up about it and want to jump into it, so that's why don't we look at it. Yeah, all right, I barely get my email. All right, so Bob's going to take the lead on that, he's going to right, he's going to mock as I understand, well mock it up or you know, so I did [1:25:38] Speaker C (unidentified): I might do consulting after I retire and I just went to pro and I within seconds I got a bunch of activity and check marks and things, and so like Chris is saying, you know, we need to all use this to check off our activities, you know, but yeah, that's what [1:26:01] Speaker D (unidentified): I said, we have to all be committed to it. Yeah, I think that's what we're all we're all [1:26:05] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): hearing and saying, we're all gonna be we have to be committed to using this, which is easier said than done, but first we have to get comfortable with the software, which is the one thought I had is, and again, I have no comparative basis, but it should be a user friendly software. [1:26:23] Speaker C (unidentified): And that's the thing. If you wanted real project management, powerful software, you wouldn't pick this. Right. [1:26:30] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): But this is, you know, we're not talking about an IBM project with 500 engineers, we're talking and by seven people, you know, and so this is basically a list of here's what we're doing [1:26:42] Speaker C (unidentified): and here's our timeline, yeah, stuff like that. Yeah, 90 day, I'm not interested in picking up [1:26:48] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Another thing I got to do every day, but I like that it's available on the phone. Yeah, yes, yeah. I must say that once that I used in the past, and you know, I sure wasn't looking at it on the phone for the most part. The screen that was this wide, I wouldn't have been able to read it. Okay, great, thank you. And all right, it is now 7:30. we had a few more things on here but really the last thing we've we've actually kind of talked about that the housing chapter and going through it i'm still reviewing it i 'm in the process of editing and trying to pull in information that is missing that we need to get talk to shannon about that and you know and we did talk about the process so paul is working on the transportation chapter and i'm working on the housing chapter is there a transportation chapter draft from pay-me-call correct Yeah, we should, are you going to send that out like this will send out? Yeah, I'm trying to. [1:27:56] Speaker D (unidentified): Get some missing information from Shannon. Yeah, the initial draft is out there. Oh, I mean. [1:28:01] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): I mean, everybody should have it. Oh, okay. I haven't seen it. Okay, yes. Yeah, we got it. It was emailed. It was emailed a while ago. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Shannon sent it out. [1:28:12] Speaker C (unidentified): Yeah, I remember her email about the housing. I don't remember the transfer. [1:28:15] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): It's probably in the answer. Yeah. It's been a while. It's been a while. So, do we want to defer the remaining items to our next meeting, or do you want to run over and do it now? [1:28:27] Tico Brown: What's your question? I need to get out of here. Seems possible, so okay, but for sure we, you know, do it next meeting. I have already marked. [1:28:41] Speaker D (unidentified): The notes as meeting insurance. Well, that's, that is getting mature, because yes, I know. [1:28:54] Chair (Comprehensive Plan Committee): Okay, all in favor, I okay, I didn't return one footnote, I said to, yeah, take it loosely, it's kind of itemized.