Speakers labeled via automated voice-based diarization + AI name-matching against the city's official roster. Automated transcription can still mis-hear a name during fast speech (e.g. a rapid roll-call vote) -- clear near-misses are auto-corrected, but this is not manually verified line-by-line. Treat names as a strong best guess, not an official record.
[1:46] Alton Buzzell: Get them dirty and so it was supposed to be we are on all right yeah all right so it is 5 32 we will call this meeting of the downtown parking advisory committee to order. Just for those that are tuning in remotely we are having technical difficulties so we will not have video for the time being however we do have audio so I want to make sure everyone's aware that we are actually in the room and live. So we have a pretty solid agenda today so the first item on the agenda is the parking proposal for 15 minute spaces I know there is information in our packet regarding those but does anyone from staff have comments or yeah I'll just talk
[2:37] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: about it before we do that though just because there isn't it might be good to go around and to introduce ourselves so everybody knows who's voices who's but I'm Anya Clinton I'm the
[2:46] Ann Krieg: planning officer and you want to start with you or if you thunder and the Smith economic
[2:51] Alton Buzzell: development officer Alton Buzzle director of marketing for Hollywood Casino and committee chair Amanda Curry assistant for downtown market Jake Berkowitz general manager across the
[3:03] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: turn center Lindley Carl T Hobbs downtown residence member Mark Clemens banquet parking
[3:14] Ann Krieg: Ann Krieg director of community and economic development for the city thank you for that
[3:18] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: recommendation yeah so we had a discussion about this at a previous meeting I believe it was based on some feedback we had gotten a public workshop about having more 15-minute parking spaces and just based on the proximity to some takeout restaurants we proposed a few locations so one in front of Harvest Moon and the and it wouldn't have to be all of these it could just be one or more based on what you all think but one in front of Portland Pie I will say at the time we proposed that we didn't know Taste of India was closing that was also what factored into that location but another one was in front of Patty Murphy's just because that's also close to Chimera for example where you can get some quick food and then also down the street in front of Bagel Central so you want to have no video but audio do you want to just
[4:22] Ann Ross: introduce yourself for the meeting that's why sure yeah my name is Ann Ross and I am one of the business people on this committee I own a pilates studio on Harlow Street thank you I was just I'm
[4:38] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: going over the 15-minute parking space proposal and how we were we located some of these proposed spaces based on the proximity to takeout restaurants so anyone have thoughts on this location so
[4:54] Alton Buzzell: Were these just kind of, I guess, is there a method behind the number that we chose? I mean, obviously it's close proximity to takeout restaurants, but was there a specific reason why we went with four proposed versus six or versus two? No, there wasn't, just it was just looking at
[5:13] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: at where we kind of had a concentration of takeout uses or ones that are very popular like Bagel Central and just proposing spaces close to those. But if you all see a need in a different area, we can look at that. And like I said, we wouldn't have to do all of these, so.
[5:38] Alton Buzzell: The parking lot is across from Harvest Moon. So there's a lot right there. There is, there a like 15 minute race period for parking in there? No, okay, and
[5:54] Speaker E (unidentified): there already is that one 15 minute spot right on Cross, yes, for sure, right to the recommendation
[6:04] Speaker F (unidentified): or alley too, like by Patty's, there's a 15 spot over there
[6:17] Alton Buzzell: Anyone have strong thoughts, feelings?
[6:20] Ann Krieg: [6:24] Speaker F (unidentified): So I mean, at least the one near Paddy's, like in the summer time there's like the locking of some of the spots, and I think the one in front of Harvest Moon too maybe gets
[6:43] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: blocked off, so they'll only, the area gets blocked off like further down, okay, yeah
[6:51] Speaker F (unidentified): Yeah, by two feet, yeah, I don't, I don't know, I'm like, I can't tell if parking spaces get taken up by the barriers or not, but that just might be something of like during busy summer Patty Murphy's, I do think that yes, that one like wouldn't be available as a short quick spot during the summer, but that's, you know, that's fine because there's the one around the
[7:14] Ann Ross: corner, so well, also feels like the one by Harvest Moon, it's always difficult to find to jump in there, oh yeah, that road is just, yeah, narrow, and it's always being used, I know, I park it legally to run in and get my stuff, I'm going to admit it, do
[7:40] Alton Buzzell: you think that makes the 15 minute parking in front of Harvest more important or less important because it's going to be difficult?
[7:45] Ann Krieg: Call it potentially a traffic issue, I think it's going to be a traffic issue, that's a high parking
[7:52] Ann Ross: area, they're trying on the street, it's always full, and I don't know what they're doing now, probably doing the same thing I do, park where the little lines are on the corner
[8:04] Speaker E (unidentified): That's 100 what they do. Yeah, no, but that spot's currently a 60 minute and every time I go it's already always full. It's always, I think I would then change to 15. It's not going to change the traffic. Could make it more convenient for customers. I mean, personally speaking, I always park in that, but it is a 15-minute current spot and it's always open. So I don't think people know it's a spot, but it is a legal 15-minute parking spot. So I wouldn't, I don't know what the numbers are, but I would assume Half of the customers in there are picking up and quickly leaving. They're not sitting been done in more than, they're not there for more than 15 minutes.
[8:44] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: It could be to I think, cross streets one way going up. So
[8:48] Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah,, very terrible. I think it could be. I think that one, that one that you circle could be in a good 15 minutes, but it makes sense.
[8:59] Ann Ross: I'm sorry that I was late position teaching that when you circled some of these places, did you talk with the owners to see what the use of those 15-minute slots were.
[9:11] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: No, this was just very- Oh, yeah,.
[9:16] Alton Buzzell: I mean, I know the one in front of, the spot that's identified in front of Portland Pie, they have a ton of to-go, like DoorDash, like tons of it. And so I think, at least from my perspective, I think that one makes a lot of sense.
[9:30] Ann Ross: I would agree with you. And maybe when you stop there and you are able to get in there, is that a to-go? For Harvest Moon?
[9:36] Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah, 100% every time I go there, I pick up one and then I have one. I've never seen any other car there. But you're probably the rightest class of the one that I'm going to turn to.
[9:47] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Thoughts on the Bagel Central one? Because I feel like people at the legal department are all going to do it.
[9:52] Speaker F (unidentified): I was going to say, I feel like there's one of those line,, line or spot things close to there anyway.
[10:00] Ann Ross: That's hard to know, isn't it, because Bagels, there's a lot of people that want to go they're going to go and eat and then they're going to go shopping or they're going to go by the river or maybe go by the gallery or
[10:13] Alton Buzzell: To take that one away like yeah I mean do we have any idea of what vehicle central's to go like the harvest moon is pretty consistently to go Portland Pie is probably a good mix but they have a high volume of to go do we have an idea I mean I don't know
[10:33] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Know, but I know from my personal experience, I almost always do to go there.
[10:39] Alton Buzzell: Probably one of the highest, Amanda and I can talk about with that hashed out area, it's probably one of the highest areas for citations, people getting there. Exceeding time.
[10:51] Speaker E (unidentified): Oh, yeah. They put their flashes on. They're adding spots.
[10:57] Alton Buzzell: It is a problem. Just yeah because I mean we'll make that better or does that not really impact that particular issue there is a 15 I mean according to this is it's a 15-minute point it's far across the street in front of WVR City somewhere over there I'm not sure about that yeah that doesn't
[11:21] Ann Krieg: Look familiar isn't that a loading space over there perhaps I think it's a hashtag check yeah I mean a hashing for what would I go over there
[11:33] Alton Buzzell: I don't I don't know I mean as we've talked about before I mean of course there's no way to force the 15th right I mean after all research no because so you know the enforcement vehicle goes around every 90 minutes so if somebody's there right and it's just we're not going to be able to enforce whether it's 15 minutes or 90 minutes well I mean they're just psychological some folks will see it and just automatically but others that are in the in the know will just
[12:11] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Like it well I mean we could also just trial it yeah because we don't really have any
[12:19] Ann Krieg: Any numbers on customer traffic pick out versus stay in any of those places so might as well just try it and
[12:29] Ann Ross: We have camera sorry I mean it would be interesting to get a track on that because I mean I do to go at Bagel but I walk to it and I'm guessing that there are a lot of people that are walking because when I'm there I see that to go and I see the bags but with the names on it ready to go but I don't see a lot of like DoorDash people going to pick up and take it out but people going in getting their food exiting I
[13:13] Speaker G (unidentified): Don't know I think they're also like a pretty high think about that or just
[13:27] Alton Buzzell: So maybe the position of that 15 minute like not necessarily eliminating the law closer to the
[13:33] Ann Krieg: Corner that the traffic light you're thinking yeah and then so well because that then I'm
[13:38] Ann Ross: Thinking of 11 Central yeah does that go away at night when people are going to have dinner 11 Central and they can't come out yeah all the time this looks
[13:54] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Like there might be a 15 minute space close to where Banger Sandwich was before yeah is that we can
[14:05] Ann Ross: We can look into
[14:06] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Into that and if it's not 15 minutes then maybe we look at doing one like you said further
[14:13] Speaker E (unidentified): Down closer to that corner, it does sound like we transition one of those spots into 15. I think that probably makes us at least the trial period, but yeah, there's one around it sounds
[14:32] Alton Buzzell: like we're all in favor of the fourth proposed. So then we just need a motion. Right, I'll
[14:44] Speaker E (unidentified): make a motion to pass or make a motion to move forward with these four post boxes transition to the 15-minute part
[14:53] Alton Buzzell: and do we make the motions a recommendation or do we make them up
[15:03] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: just clarifications the one at Patty Murphy that's it's on that right so yeah I mean that's
[15:13] Alton Buzzell: it that's thank you Anya I mean it sounds like that one would be essentially null and void during the summer which is probably the highest traffic time so I'm not sure that really in my opinion I don't know that it really would serve a great purpose I don't know how others feel yeah
[15:33] Speaker F (unidentified): 601 half a dozen the other on that one that's just more of a note that it won't be a 15 minute in the summer which is fine
[15:44] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: yeah I think so do you want to amend the motion yes
[15:50] Speaker E (unidentified): motion to be recommended to move forward three of the four the fourth one or four five right no you're right sorry so let's go with the three the one closest to Patty members we recommend to not make it 15 minutes and the other three might be recommended do we have a second
[16:17] Alton Buzzell: so we will go starting Kelsey how do you vote oh for the motion I vote for as well so with that the motion passes unanimously the next is
[16:42] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: the next is more of an update but we welcome your feedback and if you do have feedback we can look into incorporating that next winter but this proposed snow removal plan for downtown is proposed for this winter oh did you have a question I'm sorry going back on
[17:00] Ann Ross: this you said this is a trial do we need to set the time of the trial of how long we want
[17:05] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: want to look at this or so it doesn't get shoveled down underneath sense what do you all think make sense I'm
[17:19] Ann Krieg: gonna try for a full year I think at least a
[17:21] Alton Buzzell: full year because business community is so seasonal this would be a good time to do that okay so I will do this a little bit does anyone object to amending
[17:40] Speaker G (unidentified): the prior past function I don't think I don't know if we need a motion for that
[17:46] Ann Krieg: that. I mean, it's even better.
[17:55] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Okay, so going to the downtown snow removal plan. So this was based on feedback we've heard. I can't remember if some of you all also suggested this, but we did hear it from the public parking meeting we had before. And on social media, splitting downtown into zones for snow removal so that parking is not banned in all downtown for several days. So we worked with public works to come up with the map in your packet, splitting it into two zones, and they're supposed to be putting out signage. I don't know if they've started on that, but signage that would be there year round in each zone saying what the zone is. And so, you know, if parking is banned in zone east, then while snow removal is going on there, then people can park in zone west, and vice versa. So if there are, you know, we'll look at the feedback that we get over the winter from people. And if there's changes that need to be made, we can just move the signs next year and change the map. But I know they're looking at doing a lot of public outreach on this map to make sure people know about this new system this winter. It's kind of a trial pilot until we get this feedback. But do you all have initial comments on that? I'm
[19:10] Speaker G (unidentified): just curious, is it split this way because of like the amount of work needed for the roads, because one seems a lot bigger? Yeah, and it is to clarify
[19:19] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: it's not for plowing, it's to remove snow from like the sidewalks. So I don't know the exact, I think it was just based on the time frame they think they thought was needed for each of these areas. Yeah, I left it kind of up to public works to say what they needed. So any
[19:42] Speaker E (unidentified): other thoughts, questions? I think it's a good idea, it makes sense. Yeah, do we have any details on what the
[19:50] Alton Buzzell: communication plan is going to consist of? I mean, I feel like this is going to be a pretty significant change for a lot of downtown residents in particular. Our communications manager, Dave
[20:01] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: of Warren, is overseeing the communications plan. I'm pretty sure he would put out on socials, highlight press release, maybe go to the news stations, but I can follow up with them on what that is, and it'll definitely be on the website. But yeah, I can get more details from them, but I think I know he wanted to do an extensive outreach, and also we'll have the board out there, so when there is a snow ban, it would stay on that board which zones. So just
[20:31] Alton Buzzell: a question for our residents of downtown, how do you typically get the information for stuff like that, like what
[20:41] Speaker F (unidentified): Would be the best way as a resident for I do the text messages from the I don't know if it's the whole like the city or like the parking ones but that's the like the easiest way I get them sent to my email as well but I like that I get them on my phone and then I don't have to worry about reading the signs or like confusing what the signs say so I like the text system a lot actually yeah.
[21:04] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: That's right and public works is really trying to encourage people to sign up for that yeah I.
[21:08] Speaker F (unidentified): I've been using it like since I could and I really like it so do you have any idea what the.
[21:14] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Penetration is for that service within downtown residence I don't know I thought a mailer had gone out recently to people to get them to sign up for it so we can reach as many people as possible. I don't know how many people downtown are signed up. We can find out. But it would be great to have everybody in the city signed up for other areas we're plowing, parking vans.
[21:41] Alton Buzzell: Any other questions, comments, concerns? We're flying through this. This last one I think is gonna do some discussion so the third item on the agenda is the parking rate and on street parking report so I know we have the report from park detailing revenue projections and all of the fun information here so rather than rehashing what's already in our packets park do you just want to share like high level the synopsis if you will right so we were asked by Anya and the economic development to kind of give us give the committee some ideas of what kind of revenue can. Be anticipated if you put meters on the street we're not saying you should or shouldn't but we're just giving you some estimations and so this is some projections that were done by the president of our company and actually we did something similar to this in 2016 I think for the same committee different members but the idea of on-street meters is obviously not new it's been talked about before and so this was just gave us some more specific numbers as to what revenue projections can be if you. Did the on-street parking this is based on doing meters on most of the majority of the downtown area Franklin Street coming up Central Street Main Street of course going down Columbia Street I think this also entailed so we gave a number Anya and I work together for a number of spaces that we and it's just this is just a number a special number and then figured out what we can anticipate for a number of paid days based on a dollar an hour, what you can anticipate for citation revenue. So that's where we came up with these numbers, conservative, moderate, and aggressive. Again, these are estimations. We can't anticipate what people would do. If you put a meter on the street, do people actually start parking in the garage more? More, do they avoid downtown altogether? Those are numbers we can't anticipate. We do have some data, if you will, from other cities that have done this, and so this is not new. And Bar Harbor is an example of somebody that did it, and it's been way over as far as revenue. But again, I think on street meters is a, it's not just simply a revenue project, you know. It's, it's a way of controlling parking, right, of encouraging parking to turn over, to use, if you're going to stay there more than 90 minutes or whatever the parking rate is, to go to on street, I mean off street parking. So that's, I think that's what the whole idea is. And then we just gave some ideas of what that revenue could be used for, you know, based on what the input from the parking thing has have been and from what your headquarters been, you know. Can we use that revenue to discount monthly rates more? Obviously you can. Can we use it to Pickering Square garage? And that's so the Pickering Square garage, and I think we've talked about this before, is, you know, it's getting along, it's getting long in the tooth, and we're spending a lot of money to keep that up to snuff. I mean, parking garages, you know, depending on who you talk to, the length of life is only so long, it's limited, as you know. And once you get it corrosive and you get salt in there, now we're dealing with, you know, elements that are getting corroded that have to be supported and so forth. So the number of, the amount of money that we're putting into that, the fund is increasing every year. And again, the parking fund is a enterprise fund, so any revenue that comes into parking stays within parking, it doesn't go out to the general fund, and general fund money doesn't come back into the parking fund, it stays within it. So it is, I mean, if it's something the committee wants to do, then it is a good opportunity to use that revenue for, or parking related infrastructure, or signage, or discount parking. So that's basically the big
[26:16] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: View, I just want to add a few things, kind of like elaborating on the revenue piece, because I think the turnover is a big benefit, but I think the revenue is also because of the infrastructure needs. If those costs continue to increase, you know, we may eventually have to put more of that burden on taxpayers, whereas if we can, you know, get more parking revenue, we're distributing that burden more so visitors as well as taxpayers, so distributing that wider. And then also Park mentioned in the report implementing the VPI study, you know, there's no available grant funding right now to make that happen, and maybe there will be in the future, we don't know, but this revenue could be used to help implement that, and there was a lot of public support for that program. It could increase foot traffic to downtown businesses potentially, so I think that revenue could do a lot of good things for downtown. We'll
[27:23] Alton Buzzell: open it. I have lots of things, but
[27:25] Speaker E (unidentified): I will open it to the group first. Has any thoughts? With my first, I think we've talked about this. I mean, I personally, I think it makes sense. Faber, I think Faber is probably unique in the sense that we don't have parking, paid parking. My only pushback or thing I would want to discuss probably at a later time would be the communication, if we move forward, of the communication of rolling this out. It's definitely gonna shock people. It's definitely gonna scare people. It's definitely gonna piss people off, for lack of a better term. So kind of the story that Park just told is kind of how do we make that story not just we're trying to chart, we're not trying to take
[28:05] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: money from people. I definitely agree. I think we would do extensive public outreach, and you know, provided you all are on board, I think our plan would be to do some kind of softer public outreach, like gauge people's interest at the polls. We put polls on every year and just gauge interest in paid street parking. And then we would probably bring it to council in the winter, I'd guess. And then we would do a lot more extensive public outreach after that. But I think highlighting these things that the revenue could benefit, and like, you know, what we're trying to avoid, we're trying to avoid burden on taxpayers, I think, and the benefits to businesses, I think that's
[28:48] Speaker G (unidentified): Great about avoiding. This is a projection for here is that I had people like the chimera they might like it during the summer but not during winter that would be easier to sell in some ways but then I guess we still have the cost of the physical stuff right the
[29:11] Alton Buzzell: cost of the physical stuff as you can see at the capital cost in the very bottom and that's a set cost that's going to be whatever it is and you know I think I don't there are our harbor I think some of the beach communities in southern Maine do the you know back and forth where they cover up the machines it's it's a it's certainly an option I don't know typically in cities this you know it's not done that way but it's you know whatever you want to do I mean it's just a matter of what the what the desire is to meet these goals for revenue and for general
[29:51] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: I don't see any dollars cheap but and eight to five money through Friday
[29:58] Alton Buzzell: and no I can't remember who is you and I and that we're talking about that there are some communities that have the ability to tie like the license plate and their what their residency essentially to it so that so essentially you could make it so that residents of Bangor or could have like the first hour free or something like that. And so looking into a possibility of something, obviously that's going to pretty significantly impact [Speaker E (unidentified): the revenue figures,] but that could be something to look into potentially depending on the software options and the costs that may be an upgraded premium software that costs more, like I'm sure there are associated costs with it, but that may also be something that could be considered.
[30:48] Ann Krieg: Especially like during the winter maybe just to get to yeah those comments in the winter there are some communities too that you know during a high shopping day like small business Saturday they might get free parking to encourage people you know to fill downtown but you know so I
[31:08] Ann Ross: mean there's different options that you have ultimately you guys well as the small business owner here this is a tough sell for me I have clients that come multiple times during the week and they're coming from they're coming locally they're walking but I have people that drive from Newport Bar Harbor Winterport you know Ellsworth and to ask them to pay for class and now you've got to pay a dollar every time you want to come if you're going to look at that I've already asked them I said how do You feel about this said, well, it will probably limit what, just in terms of my business, what that does. I think that when we are looking, I agree we need to find some revenue. We've talked about the need for looking at what the problems are in terms of turnover and providing those discounts for business owners and employers that are doing the shuffle. There's a lot of that, and we, in order for this to get implemented, I don't think we do a very good job in terms of driving people to the parking areas. Those parking lots, where are they, and providing those discounts so that we get the employers, employees, and business owners off of the main street and on Franklin Street. I don't know why we have all the sheriffs and the employees now parking on Franklin Street when they have that parking lot behind them and they're there. I come in at five in the morning, they're there. Yeah, so for me, there's the balance between how are we bringing in income, what are we doing to create spaces for those that we know. Are congesting the parking and doing the shuffle, because for many of us and the employees, paying $700, $800, $1,000 a year to park in a parking area is unacceptable. I can't afford that. So what are we going to do to help with that? Because now what are the employees going to do? They're just going to plunk money in there now?
[33:29] Speaker F (unidentified): I think part of the idea was that if you're charging street parking, then that allows for reductions in the deck for employees and residents, so being able to charge for street parking would help to significantly reduce those costs for you, for you, like it makes, I mean, it makes someone going to Pilates have to pay an extra dollar or two, but I'm not convinced that's a huge ask. But I understand that maybe some of your clients don't like the idea. I also don't like it, like I'm like, I know that we have. A big benefit, but I'm also like looking at the numbers, like this.
[34:18] Ann Ross: That's a lot of, like, it's daunting, and you're right, it's going to be a hard sell. I have talked to as many of the business owners downtown that are going to be affected by this, and they're all going, some of them are going, yeah, stop the turnover, or it will force people to plunk the money in and get out, move on. But there are those that real small businesses that are worried about who's going to come to my business. I is Bangor enough of a destination, is my business, is enough of a destination to. Draw a customer to come in. Well, I think a few points for the.
[34:55] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Sheriff's office maybe Page Street parking would discourage them from parking there because they have to pay for it now using their free parking. Also would point out that we do have free parking for two hours at the parking garage and I think Abbott Squares is it not no it's 15 minutes well still an hour free for the first but and I and I'll defer to these two but I do think downtown Bangor is a big draw regardless if we have you know a dollar per hour paid street parking and there's many other You know towns that have done pain street parking hasn't and
[35:31] Ann Krieg: I think it's a shifting culture right now it's just a matter of getting people used to it and initially you're going to see people push back just like any other change. I say this very carefully, but we're all experiencing inflation, right? We're going to have to pay a significant amount of money for simple things that we try every day. I don't think the dollar is going to be a shift. I think the principle of paid parking is a shift, but I don't think the dollar is going to really hurt people's pockets, especially if we aren't able to consistently communicate the benefit. I think I was with this going, to paid parking, too.
[36:12] Alton Buzzell: I don't know something I saw that too one thing it just go back many years but I remember when we first started I started managing the parking garage and talking to people and realizing how far people walk downtown and just you know asking people would you pay a dollar just park in the front row of let's say Walmart or Sam's Club in the middle of winter you know and it's just a it is a shift in thinking about things and I don't underestimate this because this is like I said I've been through This once before with this same committee and I know the pushback that is going to come but also I think we're seeing more and more communities adopt this as a way not only to create revenue but also to make sure that space in front of your business is open it's not taken up by a resident or an employee or a sheriff or somebody else that's supposed to be not supposed to be there and if they want to be there great they're feeding the revenue source that you want so and that in turn helps you to Do marketing and signage and
[37:27] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Reduce parking for employees so that's just a bigger picture and then digital so we would
[37:34] Ann Ross: Would have an app on the phone that would match with all of the
[37:39] Alton Buzzell: Downtown parking. Correct. That's already out. So we're already using a part mobile. And that would just be rolled out citywide.
[37:47] Speaker F (unidentified): And that's like used in lots of different like from Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and Julian, they have it there. So it's like always really convenient because it was like, Oh, I already have this app. So like, I'm good to go.
[37:58] Alton Buzzell: Yeah. The nice thing about that too is you can add parking.
[38:02] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Yeah, well, you're in the restaurant, so sorry if I forgot this from our previous conversations. There wasn't a plan to do physical meters for people who had one or two. It will be
[38:13] Alton Buzzell: yes, there will be physical meters. Okay, yes, yeah, but it's a limit. It's a limit. It's like 20 units
[38:18] Speaker E (unidentified): right in the proposal. So we've had to spread them out, correct? Every time you would figure out
[38:25] Alton Buzzell: I've been to cities where the meters are sitting in dust. Yeah, we're in Colorado. They don't, they just sit in dust because nobody uses them because they use part mobile. But I think in Maine we're dealing with a different clientele. I think we need to continue to have that availability, and I'll be honest, I forget my phone a lot. Nice park. Are these capital quests recurring? No, that's a one time. That 202,000 would be the one on time. The other costs that are reoccurring are on the next section above that says that would be, you know, ongoing maintenance collections. I mean, that and that number is based on buying 20. I mean, if we bought 15, it might be higher per unit. And it would go out to an RFP, you know, it would go through a process. So that 202 in capital expenditure, is that, would that come from the existing enterprise fund? Or is that something that would have to go to city to get resources from general funds or something like that 's beyond
[39:31] Ann Krieg: fine, that's, yes, I think I have to work at that, but we can just see how that works. I
[39:36] Alton Buzzell: mean, I think that's also an important question. Absolutely, I think it's going to be hard
[39:39] Speaker G (unidentified): to definitely get the street council, you know, it cost me two hundred thousand dollars
[39:48] Speaker E (unidentified): back to where we started. It's all about the story we tell us. Yeah, exactly, absolutely. End game being all these suggestions, the park is laid out for us
[39:56] Alton Buzzell: so have the ability as your parking management company to be able to purchase these and finance them back to the city so you don't get hit with a big cost. So that's just something we can do
[40:12] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: That's valuable to know. Yeah, absolutely. I will say though, even if it costs two hundred thousand dollars to buy these, we would be looking at getting about four hundred thousand dollars
[40:25] Ann Krieg: And even if, I mean, we can't super bank on these numbers, right, the conservative moderate it, but even if we go like lower, like 40 conservative, we're still going to get a significant amount.
[40:59] Speaker E (unidentified): Which I thought I saw somewhere about that was also a recommendation was to increase that as well, or is that a separate, is that a separate conversation, that's something that was
[41:07] Alton Buzzell: something I think we discussed as well, but I think it's part of, well, I didn't say, yeah, I noted it in
[41:12] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: the summary that we had talked about it, that the current fee is fifteen dollars that was updated in 2009, but twenty five dollars is typically standard for parking tickets, so that would also
[41:24] Speaker G (unidentified): increase revenue, isn't felt any worse than that at all, I need to get information about, you know,
[41:31] Alton Buzzell: when people park, it says, you know, doing the rounds, it would, it doesn't help or hurt either way, it's going to be, yeah, the data collect, it's not, we're not collecting any data, we're just using it to do the enforcement, so either the person right now, either the person stayed more than 90 minutes or not, and in this scenario it would be have they paid or not, just like they do at Abbott Square, we go through it, but would you guys have to man manually go through, or would you get an alert on some sort of app or something like that. Just like we do on Abbott Square, you get the alert.
[42:06] Ann Ross: So then are these going into where we're already within 90 minutes? And are the parking going to be constrained by the time limit in that area?
[42:20] Alton Buzzell: That would have to be another discussion because, I mean, you can, yes. So based on the conversation I had, would be taking some of these 60 minutes or 90 minute spaces and making them paid parking, so at that point though the committee would have to decide, do we want to limit it, do you want to say you can only pay for two hours and that's it, because you can in the software you can adjust that, or do you want to say you can pay all day, if you want a dollar an hour you could pay all day, so that's something that's a larger discussion, but we can control all that with the meters and the software, so you can control the software
[43:02] Ann Krieg: by seeing you pay per one hour, right, so you're encouraging people that they'd have to come out from wherever they are to pay again, can you do that where you pay one dollar for the first hour, right, so most places you can pay for five hours at a time or whatever, however it's unlimited, but if we want people to turn over and we'll decide, you say how much they pay at one time, right, so like the
[43:28] Alton Buzzell: meters a lot of the Columbia Street the price the cost per hour goes up after four hours and that was discouraged people monthly people from parking they're all agents you can do the same downtown you can say yeah it's a dollar an hour for two hours and after that it goes up to six dollars whatever so if you want, so there's a lot you can do, but it's not, I mean, the costs are worked in here. So the software is all there, so you can just do it. Well, and those could maybe be things that are evaluated if this were to roll out, right? We roll it out in the trial period, however it's decided, but then we have that flexibility, right? Like is there an administrative fee to make those changes? Is that something you guys do directly? No.
[44:12] Ann Krieg: no yeah because you may want to price it such that it's cheaper if you're going to be eight hours it's cheaper to go into the parking garage you know so after two hours it does go up
[44:26] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: exponentially so that it's cheaper yeah it's like park mentioned like if somebody's going to be here long we do want to encourage them to go into the office okay
[44:38] Alton Buzzell: so and the good thing about this system is that you can you know who it is right you know who that customer is so that they go up and so i have this plate and i want to add more parking okay you can but maybe this one so i like i said at the beginning i do have a few thoughts on it so first i do want to share with this group that the downtown bangor partnership board reviewed any paid parking and voted to support paid parking in downtown Bangor so just for a matter of record they have done so I think I hear your point I think it's incredibly valid point of for your customers I think another way of looking at it at least for me is for the restaurants in particular which I know that's one subset but when we're talking about the turnover of vehicles and then being able to turn more tables which then allows their staff to make more money because they've got more customers coming through their tipped wages seven something an hour so we want them to get plenty of tips so i think from my perspective i think this is a opportunity to create a lot of economic growth in downtown bangor encouraging that turnover encouraging better wages for our staff members in downtown. Additionally, I will just say that having a parking garage and being a part of the conversation, we could easily spend half a million dollars a year on that parking garage in perpetuity. They're incredibly, as Park said, incredibly expensive, and there is going to come a point where Park is going to have to go to the city and say, hey, look, we need a million dollars because we need to redo the caulking in the joints between the floor. Like it is going to inevitably happen, I think. Generating revenue like this can help offset that. It can also help us potentially add safety features to that garage. I know some of the feedback we've gotten is people are like it's dark in there, it's scary, I don't really want. Like this may give resources for us to be able to have additional lighting installed or cameras installed or whatever might help make people feel safer to be able to then use those, because I know that's feedback that I've got. Like I don't park in the parking garage. I work here all day. I just go out and flip my car around because I don't feel safe when I get out at two in the morning or whatever it might be, right? And so I think just having those resources available for the parking committee or for the parking fund, this is huge. And so we are looking at 274 spaces, correct? In downtown Bayward, that's the math is, and it's 20 meters, multi-spot meters, so that would be one per 20. Yeah, it's based, I think the meter placement's based on the size of the street that it's going to be on. I mean, these numbers are just right, they're right. I mean, we might say you might want to split two meters on Main Street but only none on Cross, whatever, right? So this is just very high level stuff. Are you concerned that there's not enough meters? No, I'm just trying to, like, I think that makes it like we talked about earlier, I think you don't want too many meters because then they end up getting yeah, dusty, unused. But we also want to make sure, because I think Park mentioned it, like we have a very unique population in Maine, especially in northern Maine, and so we need to make sure that we're facilitating that usage for them too, you know, and making sure it's as easy as possible. Is this going to be a painful rollout if it happens? Like it's going to be, people are not going to be super happy about it. However, making it easier for them to use will help alleviate some of that. So I just want to make sure we have enough thoughts
[49:06] Ann Ross: I mean, I'd see the value. I'm just trying to stand up for the small business people. But what's really important to me is the availability or the opportunity for those people, the, and I'm pretty sure we know that it's the employees and the owners that don't have parking area for them, that we don't wait until this rolls out to start publicizing where to park, providing better opportunities. I mean, you can make this a lot more palatable. If we can start seeing the turnover. And yes, I know I can get a place to park, I can get my permit so I can park in that parking lot driving to different areas, which we're not doing right now. We're not providing places for it's easy for the residents to just park on the street. It's easy for the sheriff's people to just now park on Franklin, and for example yesterday I got a parking ticket. I came in early, parked on Franklin, and then when I get my break at 10 I go and move my car, could not find a place to park. Abbott was full because of all of it, and I drove around to find another one, and I really again did not want to park in the parking in garage because when I leave it's dark, it's late, so that was a problem. So I got a parking ticket and trying to find or waiting for people to move. So as we're rolling this out, I think being mindful that we've got to start looking at how we solve this now instead of waiting for these revenues to come in. Can I just ask
[50:48] Speaker F (unidentified): a clarifying question, Park, about the parking deck? There are cameras in the deck, correct? And then I think at some point you had said, oh, and like you too, that there's someone like I parked, that's where I'm supposed to park, and I parked there like probably like more than half of the time. If I'm just running into my apartment, I will park on the street because it's easier than driving in and driving out. But if like most of the rest of the time I park in the deck and I don't find it like too, I'm like wondering if we can like change the narrative about the parking deck in some way, because I do know that like even if I park there later, I think I sometimes do see someone like sitting behind the desk and like they always like acknowledge me, which I really like, because they're always like, oh hey, and I'm like, oh it's 10 p.m. and somebody's like here knows I'm here. So I'm just, I'm wondering, because I, because I also like, I think initially felt a little like, oh, it is kind of like by itself, and it's a Little dark, but like that part, that space outside just got redone, and there's like some string lights now that seem like they're gonna eventually get lit up maybe, and some more like of the, I don't know, street lamps are over there, and like if we're maybe more like, I don't know, like it's really the parking deck's like not too scary, like you can park, you can go there.
[52:17] Alton Buzzell: Getting all, so we changed all the lights out to LED lights, we're keeping them all on all the time now, it used to be on timers, we do have something on staff that stays there, especially on Thursday and Friday, Saturday nights when we're open late, because we have somebody there like you.
[52:32] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Said, yeah, I was going to say, I feel like so we've done one, and honestly.
[52:43] Alton Buzzell: Yes, there's always someone here, and Amanda works Monday through Friday, three to midnight, so she's on to midnight every week, and she travels between the airport, and that's how it is, always checking on things, so we've done a lot, I think your point is the narrative, and I think that's something that you know this committee can help with, yeah, getting that word out there, because it, and then you know, I'm sure you've been to other parking garages, and I've been to some really sketchy ones, the street. Plus has been quite active in the garage, yeah, Street Plus, yeah, they've been amazing, and they actually are patrolling that on the back side, yeah, I mean beyond us, yeah, they're, they're actually going up the stairs and going there underneath where people congregate, they have been, I mean honestly, three plus has been amazing asset to the city, and they're still hopefully take a testimonial, yeah, as I say.
[53:40] Ann Ross: It's really nice to hear that, so this is a marketing problem that Bangor needs to work on, to talk about parking, to make this proposal a heck of a lot more palatable, if we've already got things in place that people, oh, I can park here, there's, I didn't know that parking area existed over there, driving them there now, so this becomes a lot more palatable, because it.
[54:06] Ann Krieg: Isn't right now, it's pretty young, just a figuring square, we have bistro lights, we have to swing over.
[54:11] Speaker F (unidentified): There, yeah, it's really, it's really, I, it's like always walk my dog around that loop like at 10 p.m. or 11 p.m., and I do feel like since the park part has been like finalized and all the constructions kind of moved away, like it's, it's really nice over there, like I'm like, oh, Bangor is a cool place. We spent a significant amount of money.
[54:36] Alton Buzzell: We actually just signed up for it again this year. You'll see the parking garage we're advertised as part of the downtown Bangor thing every holiday during
[54:45] Speaker F (unidentified): holiday. Yeah, and the lights change for the holidays, which is really fun. Yeah, I mean we're
[54:50] Alton Buzzell: doing a lot. I just think, I mean, as part of this rollout, you know, as making that part of that, and I think you made a good point. I think this is the stuff that we should start communicating now so that when if praise this, if paid street parking were to become something that was pushed forward, they already have that understanding that, look, I mean, I didn't know that there was somebody physically in the parking garage until 1am. Like had no idea.
[55:23] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Yeah, I think I was just thinking we can work with our communications manager to do some initial outreach about that, you know, and some of the improvements we've made, and I'm wondering is it something the downtown mayor partnership could help publicize? We not speak for the entire
[55:42] Alton Buzzell: organization as only the vice president of the board, but I think it's absolutely worth a conversation. I would, I believe that they can be happy to support that, right? Yeah, Betsy and I are
[55:57] Ann Krieg: meeting about the holiday marketing and we can add this to marketing like, you know, parking
[56:04] Alton Buzzell: available or yeah, I think we would, the board would be pretty supportive of it. I just
[56:11] Ann Ross: also can't speak for the entire board. Yeah, because I'm right on Harlow Street with the by the library, so there's a lot of turnover. Those cars are turning over because they want to go to the library, but I do see some of the population that doesn't understand how to do the paid parking and in that Abbott, it's just it's sad. So when I'm there I try to help as best as I can people that need it, so we need a way of helping some individuals understand that navigate that, but it's dark over there where I am at night. You know, it really is dark. Yeah, so it's hard. Yeah, I think improving lighting in our parking areas something we can use revenue for. I'm hoping that will change. My neighbor has yet to open this new restaurant. We'll see what that happens, but that might, that lighting might change that corner a little bit. I can only do so much with what I have for lighting, so I try to keep my little lights on, but that the lit part is tough, that part. So
[57:18] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: just want to go back to the issues you mentioned with finding a place to park when you had to move your car. Yes, if you so if you did feel more comfortable parking the parking garage would
[57:29] Ann Ross: that solve that issue for you. Well, it's a long way for me to go, but I would, because I don't have, because I'm just straight through with classes. So when I need to go move my car, which I frequently do go to pay to an Abbott, when I don't have that opportunity and I try to drive around to get into another two hours, that's hard, and I wouldn't have the time to go to the parking, find a space there, and then walk. I'd have to run back. I have to, yeah, because it's a long ways to go. So for me, I would rather be able to park at Abbott or even where the sheriffs are supposed to park in those employees. I just have to bring that up, you know. I would park there. I don't, there's a that free stuff up by the that free lot by the church, but I have to walk by, so
[58:24] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: the Abbott Square one, are you, is it too expensive to get like a monthly permit there? Yeah, okay, yeah, it is, okay. So it's
[58:36] Ann Ross: cheaper for me to pay the parking, right? Yeah, and that's a horrible attitude. No, it's a horrible attitude, and I want that to change, because I'm not the only one that feels that way, right? And that's
[58:47] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: why I think we were thinking if we can provide this pass to employers and employees, what
[58:58] Alton Buzzell: is the usage of the parking garage like? We, I know you guys have them, I believe we've shared it with us, I just don't recall. What is the average usage rate? I mean, we're, so I'm looking at one from June, and it's, we have 445 spaces, we oversell. Oversell means that not every employee is parking in that space every day. So every lot downtown, we're actually, depending on how beautiful this is, but we have like, still have almost 200 spaces in the parking garage that are available at any time. [Speaker G (unidentified): So where? Yeah,] it's 70% somewhere in there overall. And that varies, that's not including transient. Transient what I mean is hourly parking, which goes up and down depending on defense. So we have, it was 470, 445, that's in a permanent parking. And then there are additional, how many in transient? So we hold back about 70 spaces for transient, but again, that's flexible, yeah,
[1:00:14] Ann Krieg: you're right. And when there's a concert, you're pretty much full, right?
[1:00:18] Alton Buzzell: Not every concert, a lot of the concerts we are, and we've worked through that this year because there was some pushback, you know, what happens. So just for everybody's information, if we have a concert in the parking garage, the only so we the city has an agreement with waterfront concerts to allow them to use the parking garage, but we only give them a certain number of parking spaces. They don't get the whole parking garage, so they have to do a lot for all the monthly partners that are the residents. So we never and if you have a if you have a parking pass, you're always getting in, yeah, no matter
[1:00:54] Speaker F (unidentified): house sold. Splash your card and they're like, oh, roll right in.
[1:00:59] Alton Buzzell: Thank you. That's when we try, and even people who are coming in and we're full, the people who are at the gate are able to tell them, listen, we have parking out back. This garage is full today, but you can park for free out back. Or if you're only going to be here for two hours for an event, come on in. You're welcome to come so it's been a little bit of a process but I think I think we're accommodating the concerts and it's a frankly it's a big revenue generator for the parking fund because they split the cost for those so it's a nice payment for the city but given that I think we're trying to accommodate that all so when
[1:01:48] Ann Ross: do you want to roll this out
[1:01:52] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: So, well, yeah, so we would look at rain as to council in the winter, maybe like January. We haven't sorted the timeline out yet, but then after that, we would do outreach when it would officially take place, depending on the reaction we get, but it would be next year. We just don't know yet. How long do you think it would take if we got all the approvals and everything?
[1:02:13] Alton Buzzell: I mean, to get the machines, you know, probably a couple of months, you know, get the pads in place, signage in place. But I think the biggest part is going to be the outreach. That's going to be the biggest time frame. The equipment, just a matter of, we get a time slot. But, you know, I think really it's getting it through the council. That's where we kind of hit a roadblock last time. This committee was all in favor. They hit the council
[1:02:41] Speaker G (unidentified): and the council was not.
[1:02:43] Alton Buzzell: So that's the next, that's the hurdle is making sure that this
[1:02:48] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: keeps progressing in a certain ways yeah and I don't know what the outreach was like last time but I think we would need to do pretty big efforts yeah I imagine we would workshop it with council and then do a lot more of the heavy outreach and then to come back for
[1:03:03] Alton Buzzell: formal I mean I think taking it slowly is the best process rather than just yeah pushing
[1:03:09] Ann Krieg: It yeah, and I think the council will be most receptive to not having to take money out at the general fund upkeep Pickering Square garage. Why was that? This Pickering Square was the garage.
[1:03:22] Alton Buzzell: Not there the last time. Did you see, I think having your group on board is a big help, because that represents a big core of businesses downtown and residents and everybody that participates in that organization. So having your group vocal and present and will help the process. If what from my perspective, my understanding is they were supportive last time, yeah, as well. So also
[1:03:54] Ann Krieg: the fact that you can reference your Halloween casino garage and because that happens there.
[1:04:01] Alton Buzzell: Yeah, oh I'm sure I will end up being at some council meetings when this makes its way through. [Speaker G (unidentified): So well,] and I think I mean, I think there are a couple of questions though, that we had put out there that I don't want to speak for the whole, but I think I would like to have some answers on before any type of formal recommendation, specifically related to the ability to potentially provide like preferred rates or preferred timing for Bangor residents specifically. Again, I've been told that is out there somewhere, that technology is out there somewhere, but I want to make sure that something is available to us and understand if that's an option or not.
[1:04:50] Speaker E (unidentified): I would pose a question to that, what you're getting at, putting guardrails onto something we roll out, I feel like it could hurt us in the end. If we roll this out, I think there's some garbage that makes sense, whether it's the special holiday or whatever it is, but if we start getting into the weeds of you're a bigger resident, you get first hour free or not, I think we might be hurting ourselves. I don't know. It's fair. If we just keep on making exceptions and more exceptions. It's valid.
[1:05:27] Alton Buzzell: But I think just asking the question about the possibilities of it. How do you get an answer?
[1:05:34] Speaker E (unidentified): I personally would have, depending on the answer, I would have had a different conversation.
[1:05:40] Alton Buzzell: Yeah, 100%. And then I think a little more perspective on where the 200, at least again for me, where the 200, 2,700 would come from. I mean, I know we talked about potentially you guys buying these, but I think I'd like to have a better plan, if you will, of what that would look like, because I think, I don't think, I know that is going to be one of the primary questions that will come from council. And if we can workshop a best option here so that when it goes forward it can literally be said, okay, here's how we do this with minimal or no expense from the general fund or anything else, I think just understanding what
[1:06:24] Ann Krieg: that slide. Sure, and you know, with the timing of the schedule as it is now, you know that would come in to the time here when we start on our budget process, so that would work. Those
[1:06:40] Alton Buzzell: are the things I would, but does anyone else have things they'd like? So I think then, do you think it's, it's reasonable to have those answers for the next parking committee meeting, or do we need to
[1:07:12] Ann Krieg: I guess I think we'll be able to speak to capital, so capital cost sources, or at least
[1:07:20] Alton Buzzell: have an idea. I don't know, I think just an idea would be helpful. Lately again, like I don't, my expectation is not because you guys are going back and hammering out on track and saying, oh, we're going to pay 2.5 percent interest on three years, and they're gonna like, I don't think we need all that, but yeah, just a high level, these are maybe two options or whatever we think is the best to make sure that, and as we're positioning it with council, that it is as revenue neutral for them as for best people. I
[1:07:52] Ann Krieg: think they can do that, and then I'm not going to
[1:08:01] Alton Buzzell: say anything, because I think I know what the answer is, but I'm not going to say
[1:08:10] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: yeah. I think I'm wondering though if the answer on the funding kind of depends on the timing. When we have the next committee meeting, we weren't really sure when we would have the next community, I mean
[1:08:24] Ann Krieg: we should just with scheduling, because we, October is conference month with a lot of us, so realistically it probably would be in November that we would be able to just be able to assemble
[1:08:39] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: of our schedules. Yeah, I think honestly though, I think early December might make the most sense to give us some extra time, but we can reach out, yeah, you know
[1:08:51] Alton Buzzell: The committee is supposed to be minimum work correct so because we moved this meeting from Q3 is this Q3's meeting or because we are meeting on October 1, business Q4. So we could like easily pass a December see if we can December is a tough month for probably all of us but see if we could find a date that would work in December. Okay. Right. Yeah. Do we want to tentatively schedule something now?
[1:09:33] Ann Krieg: It's Thursday. What's today? Thursday. Is that still a good day for everyone?
[1:09:38] Alton Buzzell: That is generally the best day for me. I know others have other days that are better.
[1:09:45] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Are there any other days that work for you during the week?
[1:09:49] Alton Buzzell: I mean, just not Tuesdays. Mondays and Tuesdays are tough for me. Wednesdays and Thursdays tend to be better and I know nobody here probably wants to do a Friday or Saturday I'm at work so I'm happy to do it but
[1:10:09] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: so Wednesday the second and Thursday the third we don't have any public meetings and then if people are available mid-December we also have Wednesday the 16th
[1:10:26] Alton Buzzell: The only one that doesn't work for me is the third, the 16th, 17th one, yeah.
[1:10:38] Speaker G (unidentified): So yeah,
[1:10:43] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: it sounds like Wednesday might work, so December 2nd, yeah, unless we want to shoot
[1:10:50] Alton Buzzell: for the 16th give more time but I mean well does anyone object to this second I mean that would at least give us a little bit of time too if there was a snow day or something like that yes does that work for you can't do Wednesdays okay so then we'll go the 17th that's a Thursday it's
[1:11:13] Ann Krieg: final one I mean we have the third open but it sounds like you can't do this yeah so let's do the 17th obviously
[1:11:35] Alton Buzzell: if everyone's schedules change or anybody has issues with that just email let us know and we can pivot and then we do have one other thing and Anya I apologize for not email you having it added to the agenda we still have not elected a vice Chair from way back when. So are we required to have one? Does anyone know that answer? I don't know. I mean, I would assume in my app, like if something were to happen, I wasn't able to be Chair. If we don't have a Vice Chair to step in, the meeting would not happen, which is the point of having a...
[1:12:34] Ann Krieg: Yeah, I mean, they would just still like to chair pro tem, but it's good to have a designated person.
[1:12:47] Alton Buzzell: So while Anya looks up whether or not we have to have one, we should have one.
[1:12:53] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: It does say there should be vice chairs.
[1:12:57] Alton Buzzell: So I opened the floor to nominations. Does anyone have this burning desire to vice chair the downtown bank department?
[1:13:15] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: It's a good life experience for volunteer. I can volunteer.
[1:13:27] Alton Buzzell: Does anyone second Jake? Yeah, second. Okay, we'll do that. Does anyone oppose? Seeing not unanimous, Jake will be vice chair. So with that, are there any other items that anyone needs to discuss before we adjourn? Seeing none, hearing none, adjourn this meeting.