Knox County Budget Committee Hears Finance, Sheriff Updates Ahead of Budget Season

[0:00] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): All this special budget meetings, joint permission and budget meeting. The 3rd of days, 24th. Well, I've been outstanding permission to order all 3 conditions are here again. And I don't know how you want to handle this. I'll start the regular meeting and whether you want to have an official meeting or you want to. Because you have a farm I think yeah we do this lawful nationals you could just you could just [0:34] Speaker B (unidentified): Start committing okay the budget was 27 and we all go home yeah save us [0:42] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): And I will open it up to any public comment as far as we're discussing the budget is there anybody who would like to address the commission whether and or the budget seeing as there's none people just move right into the discussion items which include the finance department talking about the year to date and the sheriff's department talking about who knows what but we'll start with the finance department Kathleen thank you for finding us great news we're on target for this year [1:15] Finance Director/Budget Director: Very exciting the only potential risk that we have right now are two projects in building maintenance that came up a lot of projects that came up one we budgeted to do root repair we talked about a lot during the whole budget process the bids came in ten thousand dollars more than what we have available actually they came in more than that and it has now come down to ten by Jim doing a lot of work with the root vendor to make some changes so right now we don't have really anything available Within building maintenance to cover that. And then the 2nd project again with building maintenance again with this building is that we had to remove a tank that we had to split the cost with the state or the state contract. We have with them, which is 16,000. So, those are 2 hits that are going to happen in the very near future that we do not have funding within building maintenance to cover. They are both coming in front of the Commission officially to acknowledge at the next meeting everything else we're doing great you [2:31] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Explain I think I understand this sheet on you today there's the first column the first couple of columns is where we are right now when you say here today what we spend more at the end of August. Correct. The other 1 is where we were last year. This is not at the end of the year. How we did it. It's it's the percentages on year to date August. [2:59] Finance Director/Budget Director: So, comparing August to August, but the year and the actual number is in a column, but it doesn't factor into the percentage that you're looking at. [3:08] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Right, so we could compare a department like, say, information technology. This year we're at 47 percent, and last year at this time we were at 48 percent, correct? Okay, thank you. And I would [3:23] Finance Director/Budget Director: caution that this is a good tool, but it isn't, it isn't always the best tool. I'll use that if you're looking at corrections. If you look at the percentage this year compared to last year, this [3:37] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): This year we've received revenue funding quicker than we did last year. So it skews our numbers and things like, the one that stands out is communications. Last year we were at 94% of what we buttoned in, and this year we're at 54%. I have not done the transfer of the fees that came in. But the timing issue on my fund, well, it just looks so much better this year that we're within [4:09] Finance Director/Budget Director: the budget as opposed to last year. Yeah, so some things the timing, I will point out that admin looks over budget at this point. There is a large payment refund that we will be getting before the end of the year that's not reflected in them. [4:29] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Questions? Does anybody have any questions? Yeah. [4:33] Finance Director/Budget Director: Yeah, so overall we are at 57% year-to-date, and we should be at 66%. So that is, you know, invoices don't come in equally distributed. That in revenue. Revenue is a big driver, too. You announced that then it will be overrides at maintenance will be undercut somewhere else. So will the total budget be sufficient? I want to say that within the general fund. So we have 4 different funds that operate separately within general fund, which is where building maintenance rolls up to. I do think will be fine when you pull all of that together, but building maintenance will be over. It puts its own fund stands alone, and corrections as its own stands alone, and communications as its own stands alone. So. Those full buckets can't fund each other. And in total, what does this mean? I'm sorry, in total, it means we will be over budget. No,. I just like always to be clear that the funds all. Yeah, it's very important on the financial side. [5:50] Speaker E (unidentified): Correct me if I'm wrong. But does the commissioners have the authority. The transfer funds from one line item to another line item, it's needed to cover a cost. [6:05] Finance Director/Budget Director: Funds within, excuse me, accounts within a department, a department manager has the ability to underspend one account and underspend another account within their department. That doesn't necessarily, that doesn't go to the commission to approve those variances within accounts. It does come to the commission when a particular department is going to overspend what their bottom line is. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to in finance transfer 10,000 dollars from my budget to. Funded building maintenance at the end of the year, because it all flows into one designated. 1, they watch the other, but the important part is that the commission is aware that's happening before we hit the end of the year. [6:51] Speaker E (unidentified): That answer your question, you would [6:58] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): have any other question about it? Thank you. We also have a sheet we put up here on schedule. I don't think this doesn't have the, it does have the dates for that, all the budget committee meetings, and I'm assuming what this means is there will be a first draft of the buddy budget presented October 21st in the public workshop, and then we will be spending the next 17 months, I don't know, one, two, three, four, five meetings talking about the budget, and hopefully by then having the final budget hearing on December 17th, which is way ahead of where we were this year or last year, which is great. I think I'm, this isn't my schedule, this is made by the administration I think, and Kathy, so if anybody has any comments on this that like to change or, and I think we can discuss it, but I don't know that we're going to come up with a real answer at this point. To work on it, [8:27] Speaker F (unidentified): I'm fine. [8:29] Speaker E (unidentified): I have to make the 17th of December. But that's fine. [8:43] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Thank you for letting us know ahead. I don't even know if I'll be able to make it tomorrow, so these are all what, Thursday afternoons, the Thursday meetings [9:03] Speaker B (unidentified): everybody should have gotten my calendar invite. If you didn't, let me know after [9:25] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Sarah, I'm assuming this is a budget related. [9:29] Speaker G (unidentified): Yes, well, administrator is not here, so. So, sure, Sandy interest in more of what updates she would have given you. Just because we're getting ready to move into the budget season, she wanted it to be clear that we are still in draft form, but there are going to be things that are coming up that she just wanted you to compare them. We have seen some of it through some of the commission meetings. So, for us, in particular, the sheriff's office, we are looking at some innovative things. Potentially, as we wrapped our budget this coming year. Just to give you an update on the correction side, we're still moving forward with 2 bridges, regional jail. You don't see any other real option out of that or are working through a process to look at a slightly potentially becoming a 3rd member of a full authority. Stabilize budget as you guys have asked in the past. There's not a new concept just to us. There are other counties throughout the state that are working in a very simple model now as well. Just because those driving costs are not falling down for anybody across the state. And the funding formulas, at least from the state side of things are still a little broken and not seeing should give you the state. We're still working on that. Within the law enforcement side, like I said, we're looking at some innovative stuff you've been watching. We're looking at some. Vehicle options that other counties and towns have gone with basic presentation brought to the commission. So we're looking at that and draft budget will come up when you have a discussion on that. The other things we're looking at our personnel matters, we still get continuous concerns from the towns and there's not enough coverage. So we're looking at options in that budget as well. Still working through with Amber on some of those final details. So she can have a whole budget for you. So I'm not going to get into too many of those things. We'll discuss them on those Thursday night meetings, but just want to give you that kind of high level of yes, we're still doing stuff to be as efficient within the budget as we can. [11:38] Speaker E (unidentified): Speaking of coaches, I'm going to beat this dead horse again. Somehow, somewhere, we've got to start looking at sharing cost sharing and ensuring services. We can't continue going down this road, it's not sustainable. And so my hope is that I'm still working with the legend, which is the legislator, and the new we're talking about to help offset some of these costs, but we may have to step up to the plate. I think at this point in the game and start talking to the towns about how can we work together the Fire department, police department, but we cannot compete going into the school if people can't afford it, and I'm seeing it every day now, being in the real estate industry. People are selling because they can't afford the taxes. So I think coming from the county can be better off than having an integral town. People love other towns and they're homeless. Two towns are now already speaking to each other about sharing about services, but we need to start thinking about it seriously from the top. We're going down. How we do that I don't know yet, but we need to come up with a plan to start that process because it could take two or three years to get it completed if we get everybody on board. But [13:01] Finance Director/Budget Director: along those lines, I wonder how much during the last years when I just, you know, watch TV has happened in your profession regarding additional overhead you have to do, you know, yellow, red law. What percentage, I would be interested in what percentage of your work is actually administrative where you would not have a police officer to be in the car? I mean, that's probably the work that you've got to do, you cannot do anything else there. can apply to robots and so on, but so I'd be interested in that, and maybe if that has gone up dramatically, which I don't know, just assuming the root cause for that is 70 miles away from here, and we may have to do something to make this transparent. There are elections, and this is the time to put things together where people drive them out of their homes on the table. That's one thing, and the other is we have AI, it's there's a lot of discussion going on, but if it's there and I've seen it myself there are areas where it makes you extremely efficient. Again, it cannot drive a car, but it may help with administrative work or other work. I'm sure there are some laws that channel that. But that's another hope on my end that we get really out of this full-digit increase every year. I'd be interested when I look at the schedule when this day comes to understand this in more depth, what we can do and what ideas there are. [14:55] Speaker G (unidentified): And so administratively, it'll be a little hard. Our system doesn't track administrative time, it just tracks the deputies per call and the time they spend on that call, whether it's administrative or actively enforcing. [15:06] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): So it'll be a little harder, [15:08] Speaker G (unidentified): but we can at least try to isolate the future study on that. [15:17] Speaker B (unidentified): I have a question to follow through on that. The red flag came into effect this year. And that does affect, have you had instances where you've had to deal with that? And how much additional time is that taken? Have you had a specific reason? [15:35] Speaker G (unidentified): Biggest impact to us is actually in storage space. Time on call has not been necessarily an issue. Because it's all initiated by civilian side, kind of like a protection from abuse order. We just get the end result, which means to then seize those weapons. It doesn't take too much time. Most have been reasonable about, but they, the real issue is storage. So that's facilities issue that will come up at some point. We did look at a potential grant, which is a micro grants and time for the workouts. Workouts, but as far as red flag, that in particular is not the luxury is we still have yellow flag, which is for law enforcement in particular. So we stick with that. We're pretty well versed along with that does take a pretty significant amount of time. We have 1 detective that on a yellow flag comes in. That's all that detective does is chase that until all those borders are. [16:33] Speaker B (unidentified): About [16:38] Finance Director/Budget Director: These anti-racial profiling rules that have been put in place. Is this happening in Maine, too? Yes. You guys have to prove everything you do is not racially profiled, and how much of your capacity is taken away by that and other things. I mean, this is what is on TV. There must be a lot more under my personal radar screen that is hitting you [17:07] Speaker G (unidentified): there 's much more administrative stuff like that so her traffic stop is probably an additional three to five minutes just all that demographic yeah so it goes through an automated system that they do a rate of time to stop typically but it adds an extra three to five minutes from traffic stopped and then it's teleported through the network to get to the state level as far [17:41] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): As the budget goes. And the jail, we will most likely, I'm assuming, continue with 2 bridges as a partner in what we've been doing this last year. So, we're just going to renew that contract in a year and the legislation we may be working on to become a full member of 2 bridges wouldn't take place in this budget year. It would be if we're lucky the year after. [18:11] Speaker G (unidentified): Correct, that's that's what we're anticipating based off the discussion. There's a legislative session is a 2 year process. So, you know, if things don't work out well, this 1st, part of the session, we wouldn't see the legislation passed till the end of next year. So it is best to practice that. Good news is, we are going to see a reduction in that contractual obligation. We're still working out what that is with two bridges, but it'll be less than it was last year. Can [18:47] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): you talk a little bit more about the fleet management side of things? [18:49] Speaker G (unidentified): Yeah, so the presentation to us today, which was recommended through, the county commission association, associations, there's a few towns and counties in the state that are doing, management program through enterprise, which is part of a federal grant system. I think the exact details of that piece, but this through a purchase program through the, through a federal contract. So they presented a model to us to look at, one, either our patrol fleet, or two, our entire fleet for the county. So talking with the county administrator, what we like to do, which we're going to propose in the budgeting folks, is to do just a sampling within the patrol side or the law enforcement side, just because that is the biggest complement of the fleet. See how that goes and then work on either if it doesn't work, go back to the way it was, or if it does work, look at doing most of the fleet, if not all the fleet for the count. The advantages that I see specifically is they use their fleet management system to basically identify when vehicles are at their peak value for resale. Right now, we have law enforcement experts who are trying to be car experts and know what that is. We're not seeing much return on most of those vehicles, unfortunately. In talking with the counties that have swapped, that's where they're seeing the return on this program is between $3,000 and $5,000 for resale, doing it themselves, and some of them getting up to $20,000 depending on the vehicle for resale using this program. So the cost is very similar. It's the resale of the vehicles they have, because they're selling them at that peak moment versus running them in the ground or hoping that it'll last. So, that's kind of why we're looking at it again. Presented the commissioners will present to you folks as well. And somebody comes around and just explain the finer details of that. He said, I think there is some value the administrator because of his volume as well. I sure she was here to present it to you. [21:00] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Question in the long run, it probably won't save us that much money. But what it will do is make sure that we have less downtime with the particular vehicles, because we're getting rid of them before they're starting to break down. [21:15] Speaker G (unidentified): Yes. It also is going to stabilize increases. That's the one thing that most of the counties that are doing the same is instead of, you know, one year I asked for 200 and then all of a sudden there's a double digit increase to 250 or something like that. Through this program, they're seeing about five-ish, sometimes 60%. So, it stabilizes those increases over each year. It's basically a lease program without necessarily calling it a lease. When [21:47] Finance Director/Budget Director: the towns complain about not sufficient availability, is this just the feeling they express, or do we have KPIs where we measure the presence? And also the necessity, so that we get away from, you know, some of the huge speeds along the other place. It's not here. And is this so it's. [22:15] Speaker G (unidentified): Mostly feeling, but there is some sentiment and there's some data with some of the sign boards we put out. The challenges is that data shows that the problem is at the same time in every town and that is hard to get a limited amount of deputies in every town at that same time. So it is feeling, but it's also backed by some debt. Yeah, so [22:41] Finance Director/Budget Director: what data will you go into detail when we talk about the budget itself? Or, what we can see that. There's a discrepancy between real objective need and real physical presence, or whether it's just perception. [23:01] Speaker G (unidentified): Which, of course, is also a kind of reality against me. Yeah. So we do have some of that. Like I said, the administrator is working on some of that data. So, like I said, we're trying to present it as a whole package budget is bottom line. But yes, we'll explain those details as we get into our conversation on the night for that. [23:19] Speaker B (unidentified): So, I can give you 1 quick example. I'll name the road, but we did the data and the 5200 vehicles were reported. And of the 5200 vehicles, 97% were in compliance speed. Speed and six vehicles out of 5,200 were considered high risk. So there was a 97% compliance. [23:49] Speaker E (unidentified): And Thomas and I will tell you, we have a traffic study committee that I was on for a period of time and we did our own study using the black cap and we were not anywhere near that. As a matter of fact, we had people just running stop signs. 50% of the people run stop signs they don't slow down and so I thought about hiring more people to try to control it but you can only hire so many people and I think to try to get the county to do this job you're gonna have to triple force there's no way around it [24:20] Speaker B (unidentified): Because to answer your question we do have these monitors all the way up that count the traffic and speeds and that's that's just one snap snapshot of one. Now, for someone who lives on that road, the 6 vehicles that went by, they were over the components. That obviously is unacceptable to them. And it would be to me as well, but I'm just giving you an idea. That's just a snapshot. [25:00] Finance Director/Budget Director: Was it better 20 years ago? [25:04] Speaker F (unidentified): Traffic these days or people value is that kind of question well because we feel that our costs [25:11] Finance Director/Budget Director: Are running away and the question is do we become more strict and more sensitive or do people just have less discipline than 20 years ago why did the budget why wasn't the budget so bad 20 years [25:24] Speaker F (unidentified): Years ago and now we run into trouble so it's really a question about the budget not about well yes I'm the only traffic rations it's the it's the idea of going back 20 years the value of going back 20 years I think we'd be better served if we looked forward and not try to wonder how does it compare care than 20 years ago. [25:58] Finance Director/Budget Director: I like doing both. You learn from the past and then you look forward and you take the trends. You can ask your questions. [26:06] Speaker F (unidentified): Okay, I'm just trying to understand your point of view. I [26:12] Speaker E (unidentified): Think the big issue here is that it costs each community that has a police department or a county, it costs them money to buy the ticket. And we get nothing for it. The state gets all the money and that attempts to change the states that reimburse the towns so much for ticket and that's that's the track that I'm trying to get right now that happens this the county could get I think I figured out about a million dollars a year has that come up before the [26:46] Speaker B (unidentified): Legislature, where does that stand with us working Camden, the town at that time attempted to get [26:56] Speaker G (unidentified): get their own revenue from tickets. The state said you received is you can take your revenue from your own tickets, which is all of your highway. So, that's the challenge is, especially in law enforcement. There's very little revenue coming from anywhere. Typically, it's grants. You're getting corrections. You guys are seeing that, you know, there's a, there's a lot of says they got to pay 20%. Paying percent to be all percent right now. So, similar to the Department of Education in a few years ago, I'm trying to fix, but to Doug's point, there's, there's only so much money, but yet everybody's trying to take a piece of it. Nobody wants to give it up, which I don't blame them, but we've got to find a better way. And we try to do that as much as possible, but just as a challenge in today's time with so much inflation so fast, it's a trying time. I [28:02] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): don't know how far back we want to go. I seem to remember when I was a kid, Cumberston had a reputation of being the town you didn't want to drive too fast because they gave tickets at both ends of town. And one of the reasons I was told they did that is because they didn't make money off of the tick. And so the question, I think partly is a philosophical 1,. Too many tickets being written and things like that, and it being out of the control of the state at that point, you know, individual challenges, start making money because they're writing tickets. [28:43] Speaker B (unidentified): Which was that unfortunate. [28:48] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Sorry really close pretty close everybody was driving a lot of keys back then for the [28:59] Speaker B (unidentified): same age just wanted to get that clear you're a younger version of me [29:05] Speaker G (unidentified): That's a sponsor there is one other thing so we're talking about too much yet but many of you heard of a 1115 wave somehow so that is a waiver at the federal level that will allow us to have incarcerated folks carry their main care into incarceration the reason I'm bringing it up is it is probably going to be approved probably reported by the state that's proven within the next month or so as we move into October what I want you to know is that's not going to give us any relief in this coming budget Because we have 1 fiscal year, so it's a month on October 1 this year. So the state has 1 fiscal year to get the plan in place, but once it's approved, we then have 1 year and get everything done. So we won't see any potential relief in our medical expenses until probably the 28, but. You see that come out and just want you to get excited that it's going to be part of the 27 budget. [30:15] Speaker B (unidentified): It's coming hopefully any [30:22] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Other questions for the sheriff if not thank you thank you and as the representative of the county is indicated do you have anything else on a county wide basis to add no I'm sweating for Amber you're back yeah I have a question for the [30:50] Speaker B (unidentified): The budget committee are all 6 of the members here, for the, jury for this year. So we have, we'll have a quorum for the entire year. We won't run into the problem. We had last year. What's that? As far as I know, I mean, we're all set, but yeah, I just want to make sure that they are. I mean. [31:11] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Doug is running for re, electing. And but you're right in candidate. And then you're not going to be a writing candidate it's too late yep it's too late and you're going to be on the ballot no let me yes yeah, but if we have. [31:42] Speaker B (unidentified): Quorum, which is 1, 2, 3. [31:45] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): We're 5, then if your channel nominate you, we can then point you. Right, the problem was, we had gotten under that forum. We'll still have a form and then there are still a few other members, but you're absolutely right. There were a challenge I have not heard about Rockport putting forth a candidate for the try them again [32:18] Speaker B (unidentified): We'll throw it up for one meeting and then resign and so that and they did not get somebody substitute I'll make a note to their and the call's term hasn't run out so she'd [32:35] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Still be on here if she comes to a meeting to the regular meetings so she'd still be a member [32:44] Speaker B (unidentified): Who else who are we missing then just the report I was wondering if there were two people from Rockland that would be a good idea and one from we needed a second person in Rockland We're 2 people short, so I started. Do you think that Amber has been working on this too? So. [33:08] Speaker E (unidentified): None of this is news, but helpful to discuss. [33:12] Speaker G (unidentified): I know that's the plans of official needed. [33:18] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): So, I assume that means looking at this schedule. The next real meeting is going to be October 21st, is that right? [33:28] Finance Director/Budget Director: Yes. When you say that meeting, commission meeting? [33:32] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Well, I was thinking a budget committee meeting. [33:36] Finance Director/Budget Director: That's the time that we are presenting, the department's presenting to the commission, they can attend, but it's not an official committee meeting, is it? Yep. [33:51] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Great. Well, if there's nothing further or something for the commission, say? [33:57] Speaker G (unidentified): So, the 21st actually on a Wednesday and all the other ones go to. [34:03] Speaker F (unidentified): Before you adjourn the meeting. Mr. Glacier as we head towards October 21. I think I would like to personally bring up something I brought up. 2 years ago 1 year ago. And now this year in front of the budget committee and the commission. And I think this year becomes painfully important because we're going to see, and we've already been told and we've already seen, the federal government has restricted, protracted, taken away many different kinds of funding to different kinds of programs to our towns. So when that happens to a rural town in Maine what body do you think they rely on or they call on if the town is strapped what talent what organization is left and I'm just bringing this to the Budget Committee because this is the reality that we're facing starting today and I believe that our job is to not fund anything that is not County related that is not necessary to provide the purposes of what we were created for public safety Corrections probate deeds sheriff all of those things that's It I think this is an opportunity for us to not fund or at least dramatically reduce our exposure to extra funding because it's because I use the term loosely charitable because we're not, we're not, we're not set up for that. That. We have, we're going to, it's going to happen that we need to fund the corrections department or the sheriff. We're going to need to fund all this. So we shouldn't be funding extra stuff. That's just my opinion. And I didn't say any name. I didn't put a name on it you didn't hear me say a particular charity did you but what are we here for so I'll bring it up I'll bring it up on October 21 November 5th number 20 you know because it's gonna it's already happening all you have to do is go to go to town and we're the organization That still can create funds. We can borrow money. We have we have a tremendous amount of latitude that the towns don't have and they know this. Thank you. Nice talking to you. Thank you. [37:21] Speaker E (unidentified): If I can, I need to clarify one thing. Is there a budget meeting on the twenty first of October? [37:30] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): It's a presentation of the budget to the Commission. It's not... We don't have a budget committee meeting. You can be here if you want to get a copy of the budget, though. Then the next real budget meeting is in November. Anything [37:55] Finance Director/Budget Director: else? Maybe just feedback to your comment. I resonate with this positively. I spent my professional life in the corporate world, you have phases where you get under pressure, where you run out of money, you need to turn around things, and you go back to your core. [38:15] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): Welcome to the club. Okay. [38:19] Finance Director/Budget Director: We're currently talking very abstract, so it's more difficult when it gets concrete. But I think it's a good guideline. it can [38:32] Speaker F (unidentified): you speak to the school district about that i can't hear you know the acoustics in here [38:37] Speaker E (unidentified): if there's [38:41] Mayor/Commission Chair (presiding officer): nothing further to come before the commission we will entertain a motion to adjourn and move and secondly our next meeting is our regular THE REGULAR INITIAL MEETING? YES. OKAY. I WILL FOLLOW THE VOTE. ALL THOSE IN FAIR WITH THE ADJOURNMENT.