Speakers labeled via automated voice-based diarization + AI name-matching against the city's official roster. Automated transcription can still mis-hear a name during fast speech (e.g. a rapid roll-call vote) -- clear near-misses are auto-corrected, but this is not manually verified line-by-line. Treat names as a strong best guess, not an official record.
[6:21] Council Chair: Welcome everybody, welcome counselors. We have a workshop tonight, Monday, September 28th, workshop on workforce housing, and this is a presentation and a Q&A by our two presenters, Bob and Bill. So what we'll, what we'll do is we'll have the presentation Q&A from the other Council, and then if anybody in the audience wants a Q&A, we'd be happy to entertain it. We're scheduled to go until seven o'clock, so Council avail, okay, thank
[7:00] Bill Shane: you probably about three and a half years ago, and maybe the germ was planted four years ago. The town council had a ad hoc committee look at housing issues, and out of that was a unanimous report about the need for affordable housing in the community, and out of After that process, Bill Shane was charged with producing a project that ultimately was voted down by the voters. We proposed 107 or 127 units of housing on the ball fields behind Drown Road, and a number of the concerns by the public was it's in my backyard. Granted, that's that was a valid excuse for ground reason for not wanting it was too big, it didn't address housing per se for the immediate community, some people concerned about that, there was concerns about section 8 folks. Anyways, a number of issues were raised, and it ultimately failed. The need for workforce housing hasn't gone away, the need for affordable housing hasn't gone away, and so I've worked with this and did it some thought for it, and Bill Follett has given me a little help with it. So what the proposal here tonight with that expecting action that the next council meeting is to put out a request for an ad hoc committee to explore housing down on Drown Road, I'm sorry, not down road, styles way, and what it is we're caught, we're calling it workforce housing, it may morph into something different as it grows, or it may have a component of senior housing, but ideally this is workforce housing for people that are starting out, many who work in our community. So the idea behind this is this would be a town-owned project, town road act is its own general contractor. There's three funding streams that have potential, the rental of units, a bond and TIF funding. I'm proposing we do look at approximately 80 units of housing, one, two and three bedrooms. There is opportunity to do anything we want differently. What we'll be looking for the committee to come out with is financial viability, capacity, what the piece of land actually could hold on it. I think in my, you know, brightest moments of dreaming, there would be a daycare facility on this piece of property also. One of the things that, if you followed in Sunday's paper, the affordability of daycare is acute. People can't find housing. They can't find daycare. So they're either doing one of two things. They're not having children or they're moving out of the state. So I'm gonna turn it over to Bridget for just a minute, just so that we can get a sense of what the history of affordable housing is, the particularly the two comprehensive plans, and she's gonna bring up on the screen a project in Rumford called Back Door of Doyad. There we [Bridget Perry: go, I'll] put you on the spot, Bridget.
[11:38] Council Chair: You can put in for overtime if you want. The
[11:50] Bridget Perry: history that I know, I'm Bridget Perry, town planner. The history that I know is that since the very first comprehensive plan in 1958, the town of Cumberland has identified that housing has been a problem. We've always been on the expensive side. By reading comprehensive plans for housing, for people trying to get into Cumberland in the region, and so it's always been a goal in Cumberland to sort of advance affordable type, workforce type housing through comprehensive plans that have been adopted since 1958. Bob shared this with me. It's by, what did we just say, Doriard. They're doing some projects in Maine. This particular picture that Bob shared is of a mixed development in Rumford. Is actually being done, are just a few of their housing style examples in sort of a traditional New England style with a covered front porch, kind of sneaky ten units I would call them, if I'm allowed to say that, sneaky four units. They kind of look like a single-family home, but really they're housing several different families. Bob, what else do you want to know? Not prepared, didn't know I was doing this. I just maybe my disclaimer, just to tie in with
[13:36] Bill Shane: The comp plan that we're, we're not really doing anything that's, that the public hasn't addressed for the last 25 years, 30 years. The need for workforce housing is, has been documented in the comp plan. It's been documented by the ad hoc committee, the housing committee that was served a few years ago. I think that's really it, yeah, there.
[14:04] Bridget Perry: Is a goal in the draft comprehensive plan right now to advance one workforce housing project. The recent history, the town has been able to advance several different projects, the Cumberland Crossing, Smalls Crossing, Brook right here is one done by a private developer but backed with some financial backing from the town, Castle Rock done by a private developer, Rooster Ridge and Mineral Springs most recent with deed restricted.
[14:37] Bob: Restricted affordable housing, thank you. I
[14:45] Councilor Jeff: had a question for Bridget while she's up there. Bridget, you know the proposed project that we talked about for Skyline Drive, how does that fall into the mix? Do we have any idea on what the developer's plan is of that? So it should be
[15:01] Bridget Perry: somewhere between, this is Skyview Drive which is off of Route one, it should be somewhere between 180 and 220 new units. A handful of those will be age restricted and the idea behind those is without deed restrictions building them for workforce housing and they would do that just by sort of keeping an eye on the size of the units, right? So it would be a blend of smaller potentially condos, apartments, some smaller single-family homes, some townhouses, some I'll just stay again sneaky multiplexes that kind of look like single-family homes but on the inside or look like single-family townhomes but on the inside are really housing, you know, four different families, six different families, something like that. So kind of a blend of some market rate to make the development possible and affordable and then a blend of smaller units which are designed to sort of, they equalize with the market because they're smaller, their prices aren't gonna skyrocket like we've seen in the last five years. Thanks
[16:14] Speaker G (unidentified): Bridget, thank you. Bill, do you want to add
[16:18] Speaker H (unidentified): Some stuff to this, sure, you know, I've seen, for example, the stuff up in Rumford that has started. I've seen that up there already. It was just up there last week and saw those units. They look good, they fit in right, and it seems like would be something that would work here. You know, this is Bob and I worked on this. It was a matter of, you know, thinking about, we know, we know the affordable housing pieces, you know, didn't do so well last time around. And part of the thing that when I was on the comp plan, we listened to participants that were on the comp plan where it was too big, right, was one of the issues. So it grew to the size that people were uncomfortable with, and that's when, you know, one of the considerations they had, you know, objecting to it. I do think, right, you know, there is a lot of construction going around, right, for condos and apartments in the area, Freeport. I don't know if anybody's been down Freeport, down near the in downtown near the train station near Beans, and you know there's a set of condos and apartments going up in there, right, and you can see these places going up all over the state, which is good, should, right, you know, Gorham, the intersection of no, right, I'm sorry, Wyndham, right, in the center of town, yeah, right, there's a lot of construction up there. Again, you know, these are, hopefully they'll be affordable housing, but or affordable or, you know, available for our workforce folks, but you know, market rate is still pretty high, right? I mean, we all saw on the paper right, trying to find an apartment in Portland is, you know, 36, you need to make 36 bucks an hour to find and to afford an apartment in Portland. I have two kids living at my house right now. The between the two of them, they make a little bit over that, right, and they'd have a hard time making ends meet doing that. So you know, I'm conscious that there is more development going on and that, you know, that may help to resolve some of the pressure in the system, but I still don't think that, you know, that market rate is going to come down to the point where, you know, it's still going to be difficult for folks that are working on municipal salaries and just starting out and for seniors, right, to be able to afford these apartments. So this is maybe just a refresh of what we did before and try it again, you know, just because it didn't go last time doesn't mean it won't go this time, right, and maybe there's a different way to look at the committee or think about how we approach it, right, that will make it Stick this time so that was that's kind of the overall.
[19:05] Bob: On this one please go ahead Bob so the I.
[19:14] Bill Shane: Think I lost my thought there for a second some years ago we had a developer in town who had a condo project and it failed foundations were in and the town was presented with an opportunity to purchase it and which we did and it wasn't without some controversy Hawthorne Court so it has been very successful over the years a lot of demand for it 's a town-owned property was it was built out by the town the town hired a portrait company to did you actually do the construction but it was a CM. Project and it has proved invaluable for a portion of the people and so the demand has not gone away there is still a large and number of people who would like to move into Hawthorne court so same thing holds true with workforce housing the demand is there the advantage for the town to own something is that it's like anybody who has a mortgage that first few years it's it's pretty painful and then you get a raise you know you go a few more years you get another raise and you know if you if you. Track income over a 10 30 year period by the time you make that last payment that mortgage typically is painless you get other things that have taken its place you know you're sending kids to college your taxes go up but once the mortgage is paid off and you own that you know everybody says oh I can I got a little bit of breathing room well that same thing holds true with the town's piece of property you know you take a bond out you know you buy a fire truck and you hope that the fire truck. Lasts longer than the bond does and it typically does it's you know you're 20 30 years it's it's So the idea behind having a municipal-owned entity is, one, you have first choice on providing for your own residents. You don't have to say, I'm constrained by federal or state guidelines, laws, stipulations, you know, so when it's your in-house. So the idea between creating a committee, an ad hoc committee, is that you're looking for specific types of individuals to serve on this committee. We're looking for people with a banking background, somebody with a bond background, people that have financial credentials. You're looking for commercial builders, people who are in the commercial construction end of the properties. Properties you're looking for, people in the lumber business you're looking for, a top-notch excavator to, you know, so I think we want to have a very specific list of skill sets for people that sit on this committee and sit on and determine, you know, what is, what is viable. Is this a, is this a, is this a workable project? Can we, can we, can we build it over time? You know, what does it look like? It, you know, you want to build eight boxes that look the same, yeah, it probably is a little bit cheaper, but if you want to provide a neighborhood feel to it, or maybe you want to, you know, mix things up, but I think that's the idea of what a committee's work is, you know, what can we do and what are the things that we want to try to preserve. And if you look through the pack of the material, there was a sketch done by CV Mahar a couple of years ago, three years ago or two years ago, and we wanted to preserve a spot in case we ever had a chance to put a train's facility down there, so I don't think we should discount that i think we should always keep that in the back of our minds you know is there an opportunity at some point to provide a train station here on this property so the idea is not to burden the town or the taxpayers with a tax increased tax bill the idea here is to say what are the funding streams you know rents a bond tiff money what does that look like how does it look like playing over a period of years Is this something that, you know, you build a 10-unit to start the following year, you build another one, you have a 5-year build-out, 10-year build-out. And I think part of the planning, the sooner we plan for something, the better off we are to be able to sit and say, you know, bond rates are up right now. I don't think anybody says let's start construction tomorrow morning. But without doing the homework to determine if this is a viable project, again, the need for workforce housing is not, is not going to go away. You know, the developers are mostly interested in profit, not necessarily, you know, so when they say market rates, you know, what is our target audience, it's, it's not for the, you know, who's the people that work at Food Stop, who's worked at, you know, you, if you go into a business in Cumberland and say where are your employees from, I pretty sure you can bet they're not from Cumberland you know it's it's a this is this is an opportunity I use that word people can say something else this is an opportunity for the town to have something that looks like hawthorne court but is aligned for workforce housing for young people to get a start you know save some money move out and buy it buy their first home we all we all want that opportunity we want that for our own children we want that for our grandchildren and you know if you if you look at the housing stock that's being produced in the town of cumberland you've seen what's going on in greenlee road two houses one point six and the other ones probably I don't think it's a spec house but judging by the size it 's a two million dollar home so let's let's provide some diversity of housing stock in this town and provide some opportunity for some folks that may not otherwise have a chance thanks
[25:58] Speaker I (unidentified): for putting this together a couple of general questions which I know that's what a committee's for to figure this out but help me determine what else would be coming out of a committee to go over this one of the things about the housing project that failed was that since it would be receiving you know state or federal grants is the town can't i mean the word is discriminate against who could live there so the benefit of a town-owned project is you can determine who lives there and you're talking about people living in cumberland who need a place to live would that be part of the committee to kind of reach out to the public engage interest on actually who in town would want to live somewhere like this because it might be that i mean you might work in cumberland but you live outside of cumberland you already own a home or you're already happy with where you are you don't necessarily want to live here per se so just understanding, like you said, who the audience is, what the actual interest is, because while it isn't below market rate, you have the mark, which didn't really get a whole lot of interest before it had money troubles. So just building something here, there's the assumption that people will wanna flock to it, but perhaps it needs something to draw people, especially if it's for a workforce people like could this not be a mixed-use project you mentioned a daycare but I mean there's a lot more room down there for other things as well so just keeping that in mind adding work opportunities for a project like this if I could answer two of
[27:41] Bill Shane: Those questions real quick, the committee's work would not be to determine who would live in these units. The committee's work would be the financial viability of it. I think the common Housing Authority or the Town Council could look at it and say this is strictly workforce housing, this is the criteria for who would get first crack at it. We already have a mechanism in place for Hawthorne Court, something similar for that might work down there, but the committee's work is would be strictly financial. Viability, will this project support itself on its own? Okay, I mean, I think.
[28:25] Speaker I (unidentified): I would want to know who exactly we're targeting it toward and if it's supposed to be set aside for residents of Cumberland, otherwise why not open it up to something that would get grants or funding?
[28:38] Bill Shane: I think the council, I think the council could answer that pretty quick. Okay, also you.
[28:44] Speaker I (unidentified): Mentioned having experts on the committee, people who work in these fields, that would most likely be perhaps involved in some way. If someone is on a committee and say they're a builder or something like that, would they be then ineligible to respond to RFPs to work on that project? Would that be like a conflict of interest? How would we handle that? Is that standard practice to have people in the industry kind of participating, but then also if I look at our past, we've had a.
[29:16] Bill Shane: Committee that looked at solar energy and we had somebody from Revision and they ultimately won the contract, but I think you try to avoid, you know, I think.
[29:29] Speaker H (unidentified): An RFP process, right, that kind of it, right, if you run an RFP process with the construction manager for example, right, there's multiple bidders, right, and it's just, it'd be the same public process, right, so okay, that's, yeah, it's great question Lily, I think it's just, I think it's one we can manage though, and then would, when you're talking about.
[29:52] Speaker I (unidentified): Financial viability, are you factoring in whether we're running water and sewer here or how would.
[29:57] Speaker H (unidentified): That go? Sure, that's that, I think that's part of the key component of it, right, down in Styles Way sewer passes right down there and water's right at the end as well, so I think it was that was, you know, and this is, you know, obviously just a, this is a suggestion, right, that this seems like a great spot to do it, but you know, maybe as the committee, you know, if you get a committee in there, 's something else that pops up, I don't think so, maybe there is, and yeah, again, I do think it's the, this one's a. Great idea because a, we own the land, b, utilities are right there, but you know, there's good power right at the end of the road as well as water and sewer, and it's close to the center town and in the growth district. Okay, one last comment, the housing
[30:44] Speaker I (unidentified): committee before the other affordable housing project that failed, their recommendations were not what ultimately the council put forward for voting, which I think was part of the issue. They suggested smaller projects more dispersed around different parts of town, so I think for a new committee it would be important for the council to kind of really hash out what the goals are and what the guidelines are for the committee and what kind of thing we want to see ultimately, so that the committee doesn't come up with something and then the council just ends up veering off and doing something totally different that wasn't what they recommended, and so it kind of renders the committee's work kind of moot. So that would just be one thing I would want to watch out for, something new if we're going to restart it. That's a good point, I think
[31:37] Speaker H (unidentified): you know, one of the things too is when you're doing this too, right, you know, you've got a council liaison in there, right, that's kind of watching along, and you know, if we did have something like this that kind of gave the committee a charge, right, you know, we tweaked it, spent some time with it, maybe that would help put the guidelines in it, you know, and we could tighten it up a little bit, and that could, you know, help to set the tone, so
[32:05] Council Chair: real quick question, I've got a few of them, I'll start out with this one. We've had a senior housing wait list, the only, it's the only wait list that we have, senior housing, and it's a big list, and you know, I see two former counselors here, when they both served that list was existing then, with well over 150, 200 people waiting to get on, still at the same list. Why are they not, why are our seniors who have lived in this town not a priority on this, which will then if they move out of their homes, moving up their homes, I just think your proposal kind of, yeah, we'll, we'll include some senior housing, but we're not going to concentrate on it, so I throw it out to you, Bill, Bob, why aren't you sticking with the seat in your housing? I think so, good question, Mike
[33:06] Speaker H (unidentified): Mike, you know, I think that I agree with you that, right, if you open up, you know, you provide opportunities for seniors to downsize, right, that it should open up some more of the housing stock. This is, you know, when we put in here, this is meant to be a mixed development. It's not meant to be just, you know, right, for seniors only. I will say that over the last 25 years the town's put a whole heck of a lot more focus on doing stuff for seniors than they have for the other portions of right for the other residents of the community I look at all the age restricted housing that's gone in right for like the condos down on Route one the condos on Main Street crumbling crossing right that's all age restricted stuff right so when I look at it that way I'm like you know let's let's open this up a little bit right a young teacher who wants to come and work in town can't afford to live in town and if they're driving an hour each way to get to work it doesn't you know it adds up right take someone who wants to be a snowplow driver here in town they're not going to be able to afford a house in town unless they're living right with someone existing already right so that 's kind of the intent i 'm i personally am not a fan of senior only communities i like a mixed community i think it's much more healthy this could be that right we can do this as a mixed piece right so it is young families and older folks as well so that's you know so it's not
[34:48] Council Chair: meant to be exclusive one way or the other thank you Bill I got another go ahead Bob so just
[34:54] Bill Shane: just to follow up on that the idea of the ad hoc committee is to provide feedback on the financial viability of a project on Styles Way the task of the council the you know we have been us and the town manager and Bridget we can we can write the document that gives them the charge the council in their authority can say we don't want to have this to be a hundred percent work for us we want it to be 60 40 we want to be 20 80 that's that's a policy decision that and that falls back on the council the execution I think falls back on the common housing authority if and when this project gets built out how its managers how it's you know taking care area so it's kind of really threefold you have a committee with a charge to examine the piece of land the viability of how many units would fit on that what would the cost be they build out time and the funding streams the council sets a policy the Housing Authority and acts the charge of the part of the
[36:15] Council Chair: Council. One last question, and then I'll turn right over to Andrew Styles. Way, you know, every winter we receive emails from people in town up in the center across from Mabel Eye because they're ticked off that at four o'clock, five o'clock in the morning the town's moving snow and the backup alarms are going off, and you know, and that's just snow removal. How were you, how do you think a development going in next to a large commercial brush dump with heavy equipment and you want to put just playing devil's advocate here, you want to put kids and seniors down with you got trucks going back and forth three days a week, four days a week with a brush dump. I guess that's my concern is, are we, is it the right spot? And I think with water and sewer it would be, but with that brush dump and sure
[37:28] Bill Shane: that 's that's that's valid but it's also valid that people live where they can afford and with that affordability comes something that may not be you know people with lots of money buy a waterfront property on the other four side the rest of us live in land and if you live in Boston or New York City or metropolitan areas it's you know you're you're you live right on the street oh it's I think it's it's a rel it's it's it's relative you know but you know sure Andrew some but
[38:12] Speaker J (unidentified): the next question that I try to come up with and think about this is how do we define workforce housing? And I think, you know, cuz that's going to dictate the finances a bit. If we're targeting a certain, you know, we need to know what income we're targeting, because based on that, to not get overburdened, I think it's like a third you want or less for your housing costs. So we need that would dictate what we could charge for rents, if we're charging market rate rents, if we're charging under market rate. Rents like that's all going to dictate how we can afford this. So I think we would first thing we need to do is really say, you know, this is how we're defining affordable or workforce or whatever it is, because everybody has a different definition of affordable. And we need to make sure that we're clear on what is our definition and what we want this committee to work on and all, because if we just sort of put it out there, then you know, are they going off of the Portland AMI, are they going off of another number, are they going off of data that is Cumberland-focused as opposed to Cumberland County. And I think that's a really important piece that we need to do before we start giving these people, you know, go off and figure out if it's viable or not. And I do want to sort of echo Bill's comment about having the mixed seniors all the way down to singles, families, everything, thing I think would be better if we could do that. Then you get, hopefully you get the seniors can help out with the kids, the kids provide entertainment most the time for seniors, and you know everybody, you know, benefits there. I think that'd be better at all, but I really think we need to nail down what our definition is of whether we're calling affordable, whether we're calling client workforce, whatever, what, you know, who we're targeting income-wise, and then does that targeting fit with who we think we're trying to help in town, you
[40:32] Bill Shane: know, Matt, what's the wrench for a Hawthorne Court, the
[40:57] Housing Authority representative: current ones, if you were to move in today you're looking at for one bedroom 1461, for a two-bedroom 1753, and for the one bedroom what they call a subsidized unit over there is 1217, and the two bedroom is actually there's only one bedroom rate, so it's 1217 for a one bedroom rate
[41:26] Bill Shane: on the subsidized units. I would hope that we would be at that or below. I
[41:34] Speaker J (unidentified): think we need to be more than hope, you know, sort of defining of this is what we're targeting as, you know, we can hope, but I'd rather give them a direction, say, you know, we are targeting people that have this income range from x to y, and then also making sure that we know that the people that we're targeting in Cumberland are within that range, because if we're targeting people that are, you know, teachers, firefighters, people at food, whatever, and they're out of that range, then we're sort
[42:10] Bill Shane: Of talking past right, we're at some level we're talking to a teacher with a professional income. The guy that comes in here and works for Public Works or goes over to the golf course, it's a much different salary range. So I think those have to be considered. You know, someone goes up and works at Food Stop, someone goes up and works at the Rusty Lantern, those are different income levels. So we may put a subsidy to that or a false bottom, if you will.
[42:48] Housing Authority representative: And there are a lot of those recommendations or that were used for the Housing Authority was based on the different AMIs that they had. So last year when we made those recommendations, they based those off from either like the subsidized units, they were basing on the one bedroom at the 50 AMI rate, that was the 1217, and that was the number that they adopted. But then they rate, you know, they adjust that based on 60 or 80, and that was based on a rental survey of, I think I looked at maybe a dozen different, maybe a dozen to 15 different properties in the in the region that would be competitive. And so we kind of used those numbers to kind of bracket what we were looking at for rates. And then we also considered at that time the HUD fair market rent numbers as well as the Main Housing voucher rates too. So Housing Authority looked at all of those different areas. They're all, I mean, they range like the HUD fair market right and the Main Housing range from 1563 to 1700 for one bedroom, and then 2011 to 20 to 2200 for a two bedroom between those two. And the Main Housing voucher rates are higher, but that's because they have other allowances within that as well. Some of those contain utilities and
[44:01] Speaker J (unidentified): things along those lines. So to test your math skills, what's that equal like a salary? Do we know? Oh gosh, give
[44:11] Housing Authority representative: me a couple minutes, I can tell you. Oh yeah, it would be good to know.
[44:14] Speaker J (unidentified): We're talking, you can talk rents, but then it would be good to talk salaries of, you know, we're
[44:18] Housing Authority representative: targeting people in this salary range. Well, yes, yeah, so your 50 AMI is going to be about 70 grand. It's like 139 is the is the AMI and Cumberland or greater Portland metro market. So you know, it enrages rages from there. So it's still, I mean, like, Bill said, it's, you know, you're 36 bucks an hour type of thing to get into that range at that 70k. But that's household income. Like if per, but if it's an individual, you know, one bedroom, then they've got to give them that 36 to 40 bucks.
[45:01] Councilor Jeff: An hour type of range. Jeff, you had some questions. Yeah, so you know, Bob and Bill I think done a lot of work on this and, but you know, I think housing is always going to be a challenge. We can build this project and it's probably gonna help for a while and let's face it, we're a victim of our own success. There is a reason why there's high property cost here, successful community. It's not that we haven't done anything in the past, you know, we're just talked about all the stuff we've done in the past. And what I'm gonna say is probably gonna appear negative so, but it's not, you know, my feeling is there's a family out there in this town, or families, that are fighting to hang on financially. And here's my concern. We build this, we bond a bunch of money, and it has an impact on the tax rate. And what's it do to those residents? Where does it leave them? And that's my concern. So we don't have a financial model right now. So we can't look at that impact because we don't know, in fairness to you, we don't know what the operational cost will be if this is going to be something that's managed by the town. So that's something that we'd obviously like to know also. Where does this fit in a relationship to capital improvements that the town has to do? This isn't something we have to do, it's something that would be nice and probably we should want to do, but it's not something we have to do. You know, those are a lot of questions that I'd like to get some answers on, you know. It's, I think if you, we are going to do a committee then there ought to be some guard rails because sometimes what happens is people think okay, we formed this committee and now we're going to do housing and people start to run on assumptions, emotions kind of like I talked about the last meeting, instead of facts. So if we do move into this direction of a committee, my thought is that we approach it in stages and we ask the committee to answer some questions like let me know the cost and then come back to us before we go further. So I want to, I want to answer that.
[47:38] Bill Shane: Jeff, so the first paragraph here, goal vision for Cumberland's workforce housing. The following is an outline of a work plan to develop a workforce housing solution that provides an economical housing option for Cumberland residents. The housing would be targeted, be utilized by municipal, MSAD 51 employees, younger residents who are working, entering the workforce, seniors, and families. The town would own this project and construct it without state or federal funding so that it can provide preference to Cumberland residents. The project would be designed to be self-supporting over the entire life cycle and not increase the long-term tax burden to citizens. So right there is the goal of this proposal.
[48:22] Councilor Jeff: Completely understand, but show me the numbers that make it all work that way, because that's what I want to see.
[48:27] Bill Shane: Oh, so you've got to have a committee. You've got to do some work. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's, you know, you want me to build you a house, give me a set of plans. I'll come back with a price.
[48:39] Speaker H (unidentified): And I think one of the key things here that answers both Andrew's questions, right, and your question, Bob, is building a financial model. That's right. I work with people that build financial models all day, right, and you can tweak those left, right, center, right. Right. And right. So if you build a good financial model, you can fit, you can run a bunch of different scenarios to see what's in here. Right. So you can, you can adjust rents. You can adjust the bonding capacity. Right. Contributes what it contributes from a TIF. Right. That's what you can do to do it. So I think one of the first charges in here is, to your point, is if we're going to do this. Right. One of the keys is, here's a concept. What will, what are the funding streams? Streams, right, what are the inputs and what do we get out of it and where does it work? So I think that's one of the first, the first keys. I agree with you, right, because we can't, I don't, I don't
[49:33] Speaker I (unidentified): want to burden taxpayers either. Well, Lily kind of, I agree with what Andrew and Jeff are both saying, specifically about, I do agree that a multi-generational model is good as far as who you're targeting. Additionally, based on what Matt was saying about the salary for 50 AMI, I feel like if you're going to be targeting particular town employees, you're not talking about a teacher making 70k necessarily, you're talking about ed techs or new graduates or something like that, you're looking at below 50 ami by quite a bit and so that again like, the council determining exactly who you're trying to target needs to happen before anything happens at a committee level because then they'd be operating on incorrect numbers or assumptions. But then again, to me, it goes back to do we know for sure that these people would want to live here? Like, is this supported by a survey from the comp plan or some sort of polling or some sort of data so that we don't spend all the time building something and then you end up with vacancies, which is like the last thing you want if you're doing rentals, so I feel like we need a little bit more info. I don't know if there was something in the comp plan regarding that as far as asking residents specifically if you would want to, which I doubt, that's a weird question to ask for a comp plan, but that's the thing. I just want to make sure that we have the scope and we know that there's a demand for this specific thing in that specific range, income range, because just because you're a new grad doesn't mean you want to go live down a Stylus Way in one of these buildings, you
[51:26] Speaker H (unidentified): know what I mean? Yeah, so I will talk to the comp plan piece, and this was a big piece, I mean, we spent a lot of time on affordable and workforce housing on the comp plan, so as to a specific survey as to how you would implement this and how you would get there, no, right, you know, asking that kind of very specific question, who would target and why, right, it was very, as much more general, like workforce, affordable housing, there was broad support for that, right, you know, and the devil's always in the details, as you're suggesting. Interesting, so you know, maybe there is, I agree, we need to set the boundaries of what we're looking at, because if you don't give the right inputs to the model, you get wrong information, right, so, and I agree with you, Lily, that when I think of these things, I think of, you know, someone who's been a long-term resident in town, right, and, you know, maybe an Ed Tech or a teacher at school has gone from two Saturday, two salaries down to one, right, and needs to find a place to Live right, this is this provides that kind of the intent is to provide, in my mind, is to provide that kind of opportunity for folks. The other piece in here too that, you know, we put in here is this is not, we don't, one of the things with Arthur in court is people get in there and they stay forever, whatever, and this, you know, maybe there's a way that we structure this so that this is only right, you have a lease term for only a few years, right, and then you have to kind of renew the lease term, right. To see if you still meet the guidelines so people don't, you know, I don't know what the exact metrics are, right, and I think that's something that we on the council would figure out, but you know, yeah, I think we need to do a little this, what this is for, right, get some ideas and figure out what the, you know, what homework we need to do to help shape a committee, but you.
[53:23] Bob: Know we wanted to start the discussion here. Can I read what Tag email does? Tag's not able.
[53:30] Speaker I (unidentified): To be here, but she wanted to say that I'm happy to move forward with it and I'd like the task force's goals and scope to be in line with the comp plan. The comp plan should be driving the bus, not the task force. So piggybacking off that compliment comment, perfect opening there.
[53:48] Council Chair: What I'd like to do now is open it up for at least the next seven or eight minutes, then we'll have five minutes before the regular meeting, so if anybody from the Pete, come on up, Peter.
[54:11] Bridget Perry: Bingham, 19 Brook Road. I was on the comp plan committee. I think there are a lot of moving parts of this. First of all, I think it is a given that the comp plan does want to look into affordable slash workforce housing. I think another given is that given the price of land now in Cumberland, the only viable projects I believe at this time that would work number wise that it has to be done on town land, and also number two, it has to be near water, sewer, and public utilities. So given those parameters, you're not going to build on Twinbrook. You're not going to build on any of these other areas with water and sewer. Obviously, the town forest as a third rail, probably the baseball field. So in this particular thing, unless some generous person donates a lot of money on to the town for land near these places, you are pretty much down specifically to the Styles Way. Be interesting to note that we did explore a project, if some of you will remember, on that property and Styles Way, but once they got done with infrastructure costs and everything else, the numbers just, it just didn't work for that project to go on. So, and it was a mixed use thing. It was going to be apartments, it was going to be everything. But things have changed. There's 1829 and daughter of 1829, so all of a sudden you have ordinances that allow more buildings in this area. It is in a growth area. You so it's something that's possible. What I have a little difficulty in that, I'm always a little nervous about the town getting into particular businesses. I think Jeff pointed out it does take resources. We've got a lot of long-term capital needs, we've got water issues, we've got, and so if this committee is formed, I think it should not only look into the numbers surrounding the town possibly doing it, and I realize that it restricts the thing with Cumberland residents, but I think we need now with these new zoning changes to have a private partner, and I think we need to do a dual track, both with the private partner, and I'm thinking the Avesta housing type model. I mean, these guys do this for a living. So I think we need to be very careful in setting the goals for this committee. And I'm not terribly in favor of going on the one track of the town getting into the housing business. Business, I think a separate track needs to look into possibility with joint ventures with other people. We had a really nice project going down on Route 1 until the state with the senior housing project, we had it approved in two meetings on the planning board, but the state had pulled the funding. So on the 30,000-foot thing, it's a nice idea, but very, careful in setting the parameters of this committee and I wouldn't suggest just going on a single town track and that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Thanks Pete. Is there anybody else in the
[58:31] Council Chair: public just wants to come up and ask Bob and Bill a question on this proposal or make a comment? If you do come on up. See you not. I'll turn it back over. Any more questions for Bob or Bill? Andrew.
[58:50] Speaker J (unidentified): So I'm sort of going off of your last comment, Bill, about the temporaries of maybe too strong a word, but sort of that not looking to just be forever housing for people or try to incentivize away. I just, I'm wondering how we would do that to avoid, we get people in that can live in Cumberland and can afford the other we're targeting for this. And then after X next number of years, sort of, all right, well, move along. And then there, I'm guessing there's a pretty decent gulf between that ability to afford what we'd be offering in something like this and what's out in the market. And so it's sort of like a, you get to live in Cumberland for about five years and then see ya, you know, go off somewhere else until you can afford to come back when you're, you know, another 10, 20, 30 years kind of thing. That'd be, so I'm not sure how we would work that to avoid that trap. Yeah, I agree.
[59:52] Speaker H (unidentified): It's not a, it's not an easy answer, right? And you know, you probably have to go through and, you know, review income limits, right? You know, you're still working in town, right, there, you know, there's, there's some, there's some detail there. I'm not, you know, but you're right, it can be, it could be a trap, that's for sure. So but yeah, happy to, right, that's, I think that's our, that's our job here, right? If you're going to, if this would move forward, that's our job to sort some.
[1:00:19] Council Chair: Of that stuff out. Well, I'll, I'll let no more questions in the council. I'll let Bob and Bill have the last word on this, and then we'll take a couple minutes before we start at seven.
[1:00:31] Bill Shane: Robert, the challenge is always going to be there. You know, there's always going to be a need of something in this community, whether it's another ball field, another school, a new fire, firetruck, a new municipal building. There is no lack of needs. You know, and it's, again, the idea here is not to burden the taxpayer. This is to identify, this is to create a committee, to ascertain whether we have a viable model. And that in itself, I think, is a goal that everybody can get their hands around and say, you know, let's see where this plays out. I don't think it takes six months to achieve this. I think it's something that can be done in a three-month, three-, four-month process. I think the council can, in the background, be asking the questions about who is going to occupy that, what the rates are, but the exercise of affordable workforce housing, it's, it's a need that I believe the municipality has a duty to explore.
[1:01:52] Speaker H (unidentified): Yeah, and I, you know, I don't have much to add to that other than that, you know, this is something that, right, we know this comp plan is coming to us, right? And this is one of the key goals as it has been, as Bridget, you know, spoke, it has been, and Steve will attest to, has been for years. So, you know, let's, let's take another swing at it. Good, so it's four minutes of seven.
[1:02:16] Council Chair: We'll take a break till seven and we'll come back with the regular council meeting. Good evening everybody, and welcome to the Monday, September 28th town council meeting. We started off with a workshop on workforce housing at six o'clock, and we'll call the meeting to order. First item on the agenda is the approval of minutes from September 14. I'll give you a motion to approve the minutes. Motion by Jeff, a second, Andrew, all those in favor. Counselor Philson is not here, she's home with sick kids, we wish her and the kids the best. All right, the next item is the business organization highlight. Every week we try to highlight a common business, have them come in and explain what they do, who they are, what, you know, where they are, and I'll turn this over to Council Magoon to introduce this week's
[1:07:44] Speaker J (unidentified): presenter. So we have Matt Almy from Main Street Auto here to, like, constantly, you said, you know, give a little idea about who they are, where they're from, you know, all that, so I'll turn
[1:07:57] Matt: interview hello can you hear me excellent thank you for having me my name is matt all me i own and operate main street auto right here in cumberland with my wife kylie and three other employees we've been in business for six and a half years now we have the location where we sell and detail vehicles at the corner of wind road and route 9. At 174 Main Street, and recently this year we were able to purchase 296 Main Street, which is the brick garage right across from the cemetery and high school, from CN Brown. That's where we service all the vehicles. Yeah, it's, it's a great small community business. We've had wonderful support from the town of Cumberland and surrounding towns, North Yarmouth. My wife and I live right here in Cumberland, and our lead mechanic is Alex Jennings, who went to Greeley and lives in North Yarmouth, and we have Bruce, who's a Subaru mechanic and he lives in Yarmouth, and Tyler is our detailer and sort of jack-of-all-trades from Gray, and the five of us, we work Monday through Friday taking care of people's vehicle needs, and we love it. And you know, we've been blessed to do business in this community, so thank you all. I'll open it up to any questions anyone may have.
[1:09:32] Council Chair: All inspections I assume.
[1:09:36] Matt: State inspection stickers, yes, we do five of those a day in the morning. I'll
[1:09:42] Council Chair: ask you a quick question, only because, well, Bob and I, Jeff grew up here. Yeah, do you still have the old P.J. Brown air hose? No. No. Long gone. All right. So for those, the Brown family ran that for a long time, and I can only gather what you found out back at the shop.
[1:10:03] Matt: We actually have a tree that's about this big around that's grown up through the center of a tire out in the back of that property. Somebody wheeled that down the hill probably 40 years ago, and there's a tree growing up through it. Well, thank you all for having me, appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you.
[1:10:21] Council Chair: Matt, thank you for coming, good to see you Matt speaking before we go to thank
[1:10:41] Housing Authority representative: you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bob Story is here this evening to provide a quick update to the council on a recent installation of a monument that I got it, yep, thank you. And so I talked to Bob this morning and he wanted to come and just talk about some work that was done recently, and so I'll let him kick off my manager's
[1:11:01] Public commenter (veterans monument): component if that's good. Mr. Chair, thanks Matt, I'll try to be under three minutes. This summer I was contacted by Councillor McHolic and he was down at Styles Way, had the brush facility, and he told me about a monument out in the out in the weeds, and it was a veterans monument, here it is here, and took me two trips to find the damn thing when I went down looking. So I agreed with Jeff, they should have a home somewhere, so recently I had, I had Chris Stilkey put in a monument, a foundation at, and put a foundation in at the cemetery across from the gas station to set this monument on, and in addition I had him put a pad in for a, for a bench, and I've rebuilt a bench that was at Ma Side and got that in place as well, put a few flowers beside this, it looks pretty nice, and I never knew where this thing came from, and I'll turn to Bobville in a minute and he'll tell me where it came from, and so it's a nice little sitting area I've created right across from the gas station, got a okay sitting at the Bench, this is looking towards the congregational church. You can see it's a pretty secluded little area. This is looking to the Grillie monument, and this is the sitting area we created. I re, rebuild a bench set the monument, and I think it's a nice little area to go and sit down, take a break. And I hadn't noticed that first, but this monument was donated by the Cumberland North Yarmouth Lions. Do you have any memory of it, Bob? I've been a member for over 40 years and I don't. Yeah, okay, I presume it came from the front of our side when we put the big, the big veterans memorial in, but I really don't know. But there it is, like I say, it's this is right directly across the gas station that the road that goes in and view to the church again. That's, that's what it is, and nice little area if you're out walking and need a place to sit. That jump into any comments, Jeff?
[1:13:54] Councilor Jeff: On, I think it looks awesome, and thank you for doing it, but the credit actually goes to Jesse Lamar Vincent because he just pointed it out to me and I just made a phone call, so I didn't really do much. Brought
[1:14:13] Public commenter (veterans monument): it up to us, I had a few people involved, yeah, Danny had Chris Stilkey, we got it done. Like I say, it looks better here than it did in the weeds down at, down at the brush dump. It's important stuff.
[1:14:31] Council Chair: Bob, thank you. Yeah, okay, thank you. Thank you very much, Mr.
[1:14:39] Speaker G (unidentified): Manager. Oh, go ahead, before you
[1:14:42] Bill Shane: run out of the room there, Bob. The importance of a community or the reflection of a community isn't always in how shiny the fire trucks are or how much paint is spread on a building, but on the upkeep of its cemeteries. And, you know, if you've lived in a community long enough that you know that a quick walk through a cemetery, you're going to find familiar names and you're going to find the people that served on committees and, you know, were part of a fabric of a community. And it's just as important to me as the upkeep of a cemetery as it is our public buildings. And I noticed just the other day that a couple of headstones were being set back up, so the work that goes on in our cemeteries is
[1:15:31] Public commenter (veterans monument): Is laudable, thank you. Yeah, we probably straightened at least 20 straight, no, 20 straight, no, repaired 20 stones crossing the gas station that in that cemetery this year. And so it's an ongoing thing, we repair stones every year, do turf restoration every year, we pick at it. And thanks to the council and now Matt and Bill Shane before him, as I've talked before, Bill Shane, the cemeteries were not well funded, and thanks to all of you we have ample funding now. We something comes up like this, I don't have to defer for five years before I can and can do it, I can jump right on it. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Bob.
[1:16:22] Housing Authority representative: Mr. Manager. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I've got some updates here from the manager's report this evening. First one is, I think, of high interest to a lot of folks. Last October, CMP line project update. Last October, CMP held an open house to provide information about its planned power line project. At that session, they committed to keeping the community informed formed throughout the review process. On Thursday November 12th they'll have another opportunity at 6 p.m in this chamber. CMP will host another open house to share their updated project information and gather Community feedback. We'll have additional feedback, sorry, additional event details in our future communications, but please keep an eye on our website, and they'll also have to be doing their outreach to by ordinance to folks who will buy it directly as well within 500 hundred feet. But until that, put that date on your calendar if you would please. Solar field expansion update, council bill will be interested in this. CV Mahar engineers were on site last week to lay out the solar array. Increased activity is expected to begin this week, primarily involving equipment and material deliveries. The main racking delivery is scheduled for October 5th and will include three flatbed trucks and mobilization. Details are being finalized as subcontractors, but most truck and personnel activities expected to begin October 5th and increase throughout that week, so we should see a lot more happening. So I thought you'd find that part good. Council Mihalik, also regarding the question on the welcome to Cumberland signs, they are getting a number of their materials delivered this week, and we should start anticipating installation with Dan Byrne his team this week as well, so thought you'd be happy to hear that. Thank you, we have a very Exciting day here tomorrow at Town Hall. We have the fourth grade class will be coming to visit us. They're coming for a local government learning experience. Students are going to participate in a simulated election, hear a brief presentation from available department heads, and meet North Yarmouth town manager Britt Barton and myself. The visit will also include a tour of town hall and if available and whether permitting and an opportunity to view a fire truck and ambulance and a police cruiser so. We're gonna start recruiting early for those departments. Another quick reminder because we want to make sure everybody keeps us on their radar as well. Upcoming special trash and recycling events are about to happen. The confidential shredding event will be October 3rd, which is this coming weekend. Universal waste event October 10th, and then the oversized drop-off event will be October 17th. We'll have staffing there for folks if they need help in moving things that are larger, so we're always happy. To help and our team is good to go when it comes to that. All events will be held at the Drown Road facility, public works garage at 23 Drown Road, from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. Looking forward to the Cumberland Fair this week and hoping that the weather cooperates. We'll knock on wood on that. But the livestock auction is on Wednesday. I plan to attend that afternoon for the for that livestock auction in support of the food bank. The event provides an opportunity to support these talented and hard-working. Young farmers, the 4-H and the food pantry. And I also want to take a moment to extend my thanks to former counselor Ron Kopp and for his guidance and tutelage at last year's event where he showed me how to become a livestock purchaser. And it's pretty cool to see if you get a chance. Those kids are amazing. A regional collaboration event tomorrow night, the regional collaboration event will be held at the Falmouth Elementary School from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. The agenda includes updates on current. Initiatives ranging from administration to public safety. Participating communities are going to be Cumberland, North Yarmouth, Falmouth, Freeport, in Yarmouth. So Councillor Vale has been instrumental in pulling that together and looking forward to a good turnout tomorrow evening. So that should be fun. Staff recognition, last Thursday Cumberland's own tax assessor Clinton Sweat received the assessor of the year award from the Main Association of Assessing Officers. I attended the event along with Bill. Longley, our code officer Christina Silverman, that admin assistant for the department, and Whitney Hanken Lincoln. The recognition reflects very well on Clinton and on Cumberland's assessing office, and we're proud to congratulate him on this achievement. Now we can say that we truly have an award-winning codes and assessing office, with Bill and Clinton both being named their prospective assessor and code officer of the year over the past couple of years, so it's pretty great for them and a nice honor for folks dedicated to the town of Cumberland. Council had received a number of emails over the past couple of weeks regarding the regarding the playground or that's planned for Twinbrook, and I thought I'd try to we got a few people here this evening, so it might be helpful to provide some additional info relating to that. Twinbrook is Cumulus primary recreation hub and hosts thousands of families annually, more than 500 soccer players and their families use the facility recently on Labor Day weekend, underscoring the demand for recreation amenities at the site. Funding for the playground project was approved back in the fiscal year 24-25 budget, and the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board formed a playground subcommittee. Now they've had two of those, one they didn't come to a final consensus on it, couldn't come to agreement, so they put a pin in it based on recommendation from council liaison at the time, and then came back at it last year. They created a new subcommittee that included the recreation director Pete Bingham, three advisory board members, and that group also included a certified playground inspector and a local municipal facilities director with experience overseeing multiple playgrounds installations. They did unanimously recommend a final design to the Parks Advisory Committee and board in May, and then those brought to the Council for a presentation back in June, if you recall. The playground that they chose is manufactured by Landscape Structures, which is a nationally accredited manufacturer. The approximately 2,900 square foot design serves children 1 ⁄2 through 12 years old with distinct age-appropriate elements. It focused a lot on accessible play for ground-level components and sensory elements, including textured panels, musical instruments, and support play for children of varied abilities. There's safety surfacing in there. There's poured-in-place rubber. We'll be providing the firm, stable, slip-resistant surface for children to walk on as other people to walk on and use, or for that matter, if they are mobility impaired, to use their wheelchair on, and allows grade-level entry without access to limited ramps or supports longer seasonal use and reduces maintenance material consideration that selected poured rubber is also PFAS free. There was some concern that was raised earlier on an email and I think there's some confusion on that but it's been confirmed that the rubber that they are going to use does not contain PFAS. The committee preferred that over engineered wood fiber because they had some concerns about potential PFAS with that or formaldehyde content and then containment requirements as in spilling outside of the contained area for the playground and then needing ramp access to gain traction into the into the facility as well as ongoing maintenance and then site compatibility the committee was I thought they tried to be sensitive relating to that and chose earth tone color palette looking for it to be blending better into the Twinbrook Park setting so the final cost of the playground with the structure and the port surface was 196 000 it was fully funded in the 24 25 budget and purchasing was completed in july to secure pricing after the industry-wide increases during the planning process had already reduced the amount by 20 percent just due to life in general since the covid pandemic unfortunately but i think the playground structure has been delivered installation is currently anticipated in the spring ring and staff looks forward to opening this new play space for cumberland families so we do have all this advice to the council as well as you i sent you all copies and it's available on our website the site plan for that was submitted to the town and shows the plans over there the one thing it does need to have will be a couple of benches will need to be installed which weren't on the plan as well as some plantings that are also going to have to be reviewed and installed but I think they were holding off on making those decisions until they get to the point that they'll see what's gonna fit and what and how that's got a site before then so that's all I have this evening the next item is public
New Business
[1:25:37] Council Chair: Discussion, public discussion is for comments on the on items that are not on the agenda. Comments are limited to five minutes per person. Rebuttal comments will be limited to two minutes. Public discussion topics may be brought up again under new business for further council discussion. Is there anybody from the public would like to go on up on item?
[1:26:01] Annie Witty: Just if you would just introduce yourself and for sure. Hi, I'm Annie Witty. You guys can hear me? Hi Matt, this is in regards to an email. I'm taking this opportunity to talk to you all guys about the playground. I sent an email to the council too and I haven't heard from you, so this is sort of coming off of a little bit of what Matt's talking about in the email. I spoke of the Twin Brooks playground as voted on June 28th 2026 with the rubber formed flooring making a rectangle format for expansion. After that vote there was only casual suggestions of benches planting or any dog issues actually weren't talked about. They were not talked about. The original playground committee, which was formed in 2023, had discussed all aspects of this very cool project. We're really excited about it. Spring 2025, we were in long discussions about ideas, and we, with Bill Shane, thought that the company Viewshed of Yarmouth would create renderings comparing our options and considering different elements to be part of this playground. At that time the original committee was dissolved. Now I'm wondering that might be the pin the pin was put in it. Another playground subcommittee was created without informing any of the original guys. Parks and Recs took on the project. This happens, I'm not you know. I understand these are big, weighty projects. It was extremely difficult, though, to get any information about the playground at that point. I'm confused how the transparency of this project got so shifted. I do understand that the vote happened, possibly because the scale of the playground is 2,900 square feet. Therefore, a different set of requirements are needed. The equipment is here and it's slated to be built. Thanks, Matt, for all this info. Now, I still would like the council to consider the project and create a more cohesive plan. It's no secret that the beauty of Twin Brooks lies in the pastoral nature. While we need certain necessary manmade additions, the best elements of Twin Brooks are natural. In the past, we tucked a maintenance building behind a berm, we added a barn instead of a Quonset hut for shelter, and we chose split rail fencing instead of guardrails. And all the abutters have respected that vision. We should strive to maintain the feeling of this planned playground. A playground is a great idea, but as we go forward, it's important to maintain Twinbrook's unique identity in all its projects. And thanks, Matt, for that information. I mean, I've seen other reports, but I just think this is a really important issue for the town. Thank you, Annie. Yeah. Anybody else?
[1:28:59] Sarah Russell: Come on up, sir. Good evening. Evening, my name is Sarah Russell. I live on Tuttle Road and I also want to comment on the playground. Matt, I appreciate the information that you brought tonight. I really regret the fact that this is probably the first time that anyone in this room is hearing about the playground. Little too late for public input and that's what I want to talk to you about today is the lack of public input through this process. I think it's a big oversight. As I wrote, I wrote out my comments, I have to use this open public comment period to talk about the playground because the playground was never in over two and a half years of planning submitted on a town council agenda. It was tucked inside a master plan but it was never mentioned. The play, the word playground was never mentioned in any agenda, making it near impossible for anyone to even know that it was in development, let alone the opportunity to ask questions or be involved. The process of the playground development was pretty messy from the start and it ended in a process that offered no public outreach that silenced the voices of those few of us who asked questions along the way. And the end product is what we will see this spring, plastic components on top of poured rubber sitting in the view shed of the Twin Brook landscape. At the very first meeting of our playground committee, which I was on with Annie and a handful of other people, we were shown catalogs and asked to pick out play components, four swings or three, do we want a mid-size or tall? And we said, whoa,, whoa, let's slow down. Can we talk about the materials that we want to use, the design that we want to think about, possible plantings, location, the dog policy, accessibility? None of that was willing to be addressed. We requested doing surveys to ask residents their thoughts. We suggested a community meeting to brainstorm play ideas. We found a play expert to come to talk to the town for free about what makes a play space engaging and fun. We were really excited to take on this project and do this right. That was June 2024. Our committee never heard from Parks and Rec again. We were silently dismissed, and apparently a new committee was formed. The original catalog oriented playground breezed through the application process by keeping the playground off of any town meeting agenda, by being just under the a max dimension of 3,000 square feet, which would have required public input. The playground happens to be 2,990 square feet. And by deciding not to notify abutters. As we will hear later tonight, abutters deserve to be heard. So where was the oversight? How is a committee formed, voted on, and approved, and then banned with no accountability? This is what I don't understand. How is this happening in our town? Out, how are we pouring, I would, I'm calling it PFAS rubber into our beautiful Twin Book landscape playground places. Only test for 12 PFAS materials. There are over thousands of PFAS materials out there. They only test for 12. We have no guarantee that poured rubber is not going to have PFAS in it. Plus the rubber, poured rubber, it gets up to 50 degrees hotter than grass in the summertime. Do we have any budget for trees and shade? How have we not made a plan regarding dogs and kids? How did families with young children get cut out of this process how were families with disabled children not solicited for input to make sure that there are components upon which their kids can play so i stand here deeply disappointed my a playground was budgeted a committee was formed the committee was silenced no effort was made to include the public a hundred and ninety thousand dollars was spent on materials before the application was even approved or a butters notified I would like to think that the town would take a hard look at how this process played out. Robust committee involvement is essential to town participation and dialogue. I would also like to think that the town will consider some changes to the current design, landscaping plan, a robust dog policy, a look at the engineered wood fiber, and assurance that there are play components for all kids to play. A playground is a good thing at Twin Brook. I'm not against that, but and a playground built with input from play experts, design experts young parents and community members could have been really great. Thank you. Thank you sir. Anybody else? Jesse
[1:33:40] Vincent Lamar: Lamar, Vincent Range Road. So I normally don't come out to these things because I'm normally putting my kids to bed, but I dragged them out with me and they were playing some video games in the back, but I will assure you I watch most of these while I'm putting my kids to bed. So if you're wondering who one of the like eight people watching live on YouTube is, me. So I can't stay and comment on things later on, but I wanted to come because I think it's important. After watching a lot of these, you guys get a lot of flack and a lot of people come up here because they're upset about something. You know, they've got an axe to grind or they have a real concern, and you guys have the tough task of threading the needle and doing what's right for the majority of people in town. You know, trying to weigh all the interests, and I thought it was important to reflect that. After watching most of your meetings, I'm really proud of the work you do. I think it's really incredible the way you listen to all residents from a variety of viewpoints. You take the time to make sure you're coming to the right decision or what you think is the right decision. You can't always get it right. And so I don't always agree with what you guys are doing. But I'm proud of what you are doing. And I'm proud to be a resident of Cumberland. You know, I live on Range Road. People often drive too fast. And once in a while, there's a police officer there to try and slow people down. In front of my house, the pavement has been breaking up for a number of years. Since I moved in, I've never come to complain about it to you guys. But the other day, they repaved a section of Range Road in front of my house because somebody was paying attention enough to fix it without me complaining. You know, my kids most days walk to the library after school. It is one of the most inviting, inclusive, positive, safe places kids could go to, and that exists because of you guys. My kids play soccer at Twinbrook, where I go for walks. One of the sort of best athletic facilities probably in the entire state, and that exists and is maintained because of you guys. You know, I live close to the Rhines Forest. You know, those trails are maintained by the L, you know, Lands and Conservation Commission, which I am on, the Trails Committee. You guys support the work that we do so that volunteers in this town can keep our trails looking nice, keep our forests healthy, try and fight back the invasives. So yeah, I just don't hear enough people talking about the good work you guys are doing. It's not easy. You don't always get it right. People are always going to be upset about something on one side or the other. But I really respect and appreciate that you guys take the time to do your best. And I think most of the time you do, and you know, with a number of people who want to live in Cumberland, I think that's a testament to the incredible work that you and people who have come before you on this town council have done. So just wanted to express my gratitude. I think it's important because negativity can often drown out the great work that people are doing in this world. So thank you. I take my kids to bed and
[1:36:36] Speaker I (unidentified): Yeah, keep up the good work. Thanks. Thanks. Jesse. I was waiting for the butt the whole time and no but
[1:36:44] Council Chair: Chris. Anybody else in the public that would like to come up on an item that's not on the agenda? Chris?
[1:36:58] Chris Yale: Hi, Chris Yale, 244 Greeley Road. I came in to speak, and there's way too many people here tonight to try to talk. And something I was going to talk about is on the agenda, which I did not know. At first, I wanted to thank the councillors back. As this gentleman said, I was one of the people that watch these town council meetings because, as I guess, we have no life, so watch council meetings, I guess. It was a month, a couple month and a half ago, where the gentleman with the trail committee was here asking for twelve thousand six hundred dollars, and you guys kind of stopped. Well, what's in writing, whatever, we're just not handing over this money without anything here. But now it looks like it's on the agenda, so maybe they have plans or something like that. I don't know, I haven't kept up enough with it, so I mean, this trail is coming whether we like it or not. I hear it's not really a town property, but eventually it is going to happen. So I've also, you were very concerned about the butters along this, and you asked about a fence, will they put a fence up, and they talked about that and everything, and I have friends in the fencing business, Mainline Fence and All Fence to Fence, that six-foot slap fences $70 a foot, that's 1.1 million dollars for the length of it. So I hope that is appropriated if you said we want a fence on our section. Chris, do you have anything for that's not on the agenda? Yeah, I was gonna then move on to Grilly Road. The Grilly Road is going to be rebuilt, and you did, you talk about that's on the agenda here about riding the bikes to this space and we're like that. I hope you're really considering a sidewalk when you rebuild this road. You asked me would I like a sidewalk in front of my house. Yes, I would love a sidewalk. People drive way too fast down Grilly Road, even as rough as it is. Matt, you made the point of people complain about how rough it is, as soon as we pave it they complain about how fast they go, so it's a catch-22. I think putting a sidewalk down this road and completing the loop, two Twin Brooks, as we talked about, five thousand people was it at Twin Brooks this past weekend or whatever it was for that soccer tournament, would be wonderful for, it would really, I think, calm people down on that road and give it more of a town feel. Okay, so I really hope you really Consider that, and consider that expense. I know it's expensive. I also looked at a brand new sidewalk go across in across from a sidewalk at Mabel I Wilson go. All right, we just put a sidewalk across from a sidewalk which was a lot of money. It's pretty see a neighbor here that probably loves it that he can walk from Willow Lane to Windman Broadway, so that's really nice. So I would think it'd be fiscally responsible for you guys to really look at that. Okay, we're gonna rebuild this, we're gonna probably widen the road, put a bike lane in, we'd really like a sidewalk, and I really think if you ask the people along that residence and along there that they would like it too. So speaking of fiscally responsible, my next item here that's not on the agenda that Mr. Mahalik had me sign something. My other question to you is why are we subsidizing North Yarmouth with our tax dollars? It's your job, your job to be fiduciary responsible to spend Cumlin tax dollars, but I guess with a school budget North Yarmouth is a little shy of their fair share, so I'm just curious how far if that's moving forward, if anything's happening with that, Jeff, if it went forward not with that petition or anything, so I'm just curious about that. I mean, Yarmouth, when this, you know, go back to, you said this was signed in 1966, this agreement was signed. I looked it up. Gas was 32 cents. Also, I also looked up, and it was on the internet, because it's AAINSO, must be right. North Yarmouth had 1,200 residents. Cumberland had 6,000. Now they have 4,400 residents. Since Cumberland has just shy of 9 000, I guess so, a 70 growth in North Yarmouth with 30 growth in Cumberland. So why are we using Cumberland tax dollars to subsidize our neighbors? I want to be good neighbors, but my neighbor's not asking me to spend four percent just to pay his taxes, so that's all I got. Thank you, Chris. Thank you. Okay.
[1:41:45] Bill Shane: I just want to know what, unfortunately
[1:41:48] Councilor Jeff: So the public knows, the petition that Mr Yale signed was one to basically revisit the cost sharing agreement of the school district, so if anyone's wondering what I got him to sign, that's that's what it was. I did try to get him to sign over his bank account, but he wouldn't do
[1:42:04] Council Chair: It and so anybody else have comment that for an item that is not on the agenda? See now we'll go right to the agenda legislation and policy item 26-104 to hold a public hearing to consider an act on the adoption of the main municipal association model general assistance appendices A through H for the period of October 1st 26 through September 30th 27. Matt. Thank you Mr.
[1:42:41] Housing Authority representative: Chairman, this is an annual occurrence as most counselors will remember, so about this time every year the legislature comes forward with their or actually Main Municipal comes forward with their recommended GA ordinance that each town that they sent each town for annual review and approval, and tonight I actually we have in-house a our GA expert and our a person who provides our GA forest Paige Cambacus who's here, and if you'd like to come up you could talk about it briefly. I know there's also a question about heating assistance as well that because it's all it's all contained within this ordinance, there's heating assistance, what the rental side of it, what the utilities side of it is all it's all spelled out within the ordinance. The town also has a fund for heating assistance as well, and there's locally a wood bank as well. Talking with Helene our finance director this afternoon, the heating assistance fund has about 278 000 in it, so it's in it's it's healthy, but oil is expensive and gas is expensive and everything's expensive when it comes to heating a home, and we got a lot and we got a long heating system heating season ahead of us, so I thought that might be good for the council to know, but I'll let our in-house expert also provide some info for the council as
[1:44:06] Paige: well. So thanks Paige. Thanks Matt. Yeah, so what you have in front of you for the appendices is like Matt said updated every year. These are appendices that MMA comes out with, they collaborate with the Department of Health and Human Services to calculate those every year. They're based on some HUD numbers, some USDA numbers from the federal government. They come out October 1st every year, and those do go into effect whether they're adopted or not. The state requires the state requires us to use those. Numbers as administrators, and so updating them in the town ordinance is really more of a formality than anything. But you do have some latitude in the adoption. A lot of towns, not a lot of towns, but a handful of towns in the state do choose to not adopt Appendix C, which is the housing maximums, and instead we use the overall. In those cases, the overall household maximum when determining housing. Yeah, happy to answer any questions that you might have about those. Any
[1:45:16] Council Chair: any questions from the council before we turn it over to the public? None. Thank you very much. Yeah, of course. Anybody from this public hearing? Anybody from the public? Like we heard on the first item, none. Send it back to the council. What's your favor on this thing? I can
[1:45:44] Councilor Jeff: provide you the motion I moved to adopt the main Municipal Association's model for general assistance appendices A through H for the period of October 1st 2026 through
[1:45:55] Council Chair: September 30th, 2027. Second. The motion is second. All those in favor? How about discussion on the
[1:46:02] Bill Shane: motion? We did. No, we didn't. We made a motion. Your second. Discussion on the motion, please. Okay, go ahead, Bob. I won't say that I read the whole ordinance because it was exhausting, that's. And I can say that I didn't read the whole thing last year either. But what struck me was the complexity of it and the severability, I guess, of people that could easily get cut off. And it's astonishing to me at some level that, you know, we want every dollar to be accounted for when we give aid to people. But at some level you want to say to yourself, you know, let's not be so strict. Let's, let's, let's meet people's needs. And I think, you know, it's, it's, it's sobering to read through this and to understand that there are so many people in this state that are of need, and we are a wealthy community, we're a wealthy country, and we struggle to meet the needs of people who are struggling worse than we are. Anyways, thank you for your, what you do. Thank you, Bob. Anything else
[1:47:22] Council Chair: from the council? We have a motion, a second. Change all those in favor? Item 26-105, to hold a public hearing to consider an act on a special amusement license renewal for Wander at Longwoods Preserve.
[1:47:42] Housing Authority representative: Mr. Manager. Thank You Mr. Chairman. On the council agenda this evening you have that request from the annual specialty amusement license renewal for wander at Longwoods preserve. This from last year, this is an annual occurrence. There have been no items that staff has identified and brought it forward this evening with the recommendation for approval. And this is if they want to have live music performed there that they as they as they've lined it out. Is there any
[1:48:14] Council Chair: question from the council for the manager? I have a question. Go ahead. The
[1:48:22] Speaker I (unidentified): highlighted portion in this memo realigning the special amusement permit expiration with the existing liquor license, didn't we already do that last
[1:48:34] Speaker S (unidentified): time? Maybe.
[1:48:38] Housing Authority representative: That was that was what the request was and I think I don't think it got all the way, I don't think it made it all the way through. So that's we're looking at as well to get this in alignment with that. So next spring you should see that when they do come back for their liquor license renewal. So the
[1:48:56] Speaker I (unidentified): liquor license will be aligned with a special this one. Okay so we don't actually have to have any language in the motion about dealing with that, it'll just pop up. Yeah okay. This
[1:49:11] Council Chair: is a public hearing. Anybody from the public like to be heard on this or ask a question? Saying none, turn it back over the council. Any comments from the council? Any motions? I'll
[1:49:30] Councilor Jeff: do it. All right I move I move to approve the special amusement license renewal for wander at longwoods preserve for the period of November 1st 2026 through June
[1:49:42] Council Chair: 9th 2027. We have a motion in a second. I'll second. A second. Any other comments from the council? From the peanut gallery? All those in favor. Item 26-106 to consider an act on reorganizing the Cumberland North Yarmouth joint standing committee into two separate groups. Number one is a Knight's Pawn Committee, and number two, a joint standing committee consisting of the Cumberland Town Council and the North Yamaha Select Board to meet approximately two to three times annually to discuss collaboration, joint projects, mutual concerns, and other matters of shared interest. Bob, I'm going to turn this over to, Bob and I have been meeting with the manager and assistant manager excuse me town chair and vice chair of the north yama select board and we went on we want to we've been wanting to head in the right direction work on projects and not just meet for the sake of meetings. So Bob I think the first piece to address is the
[1:51:01] Bill Shane: Knight's Pond breakout of the people on that, and I think it's good that is separated out. There's enough things that go on over the course of a year, maintenance of trails, expenditures of funds, that specific topics should be addressed by people that perhaps have a little more background than the council or the select board of North Yarmouth. So I think taking that piece away makes perfectly sense. So over the last few months, as Mike said, we've met with the leadership of North Yarmouth, the chair and vice chair of the select board, and we've kind of challenged each other on what is a working relationship look like and how important is it, and I think over the last couple of years we've seen a falling away of dialogue if you will, and you know at some point we've we've had members that myself included have just said don't put me on that committee anymore because I just it's not working for me and I think that so there's a recognition that we had to be engaged, and if you don't know your neighbors, not to pick on the folks down in Washington, but when you pick on your neighbor to the north of us and you don't have a good relationship, you know good things don't happen anymore. So it 's it's a incumbent upon not only the council but the select board to sit down and have real constructive talks about how the two communities work together, how we share our funds, and included in that is our relationship with the schools, and nothing could be more important than, you know, 70% of our tax dollars, and how that is shared is of utmost importance. But I think really the thing that Mike and I came away with is that the folks in North Yarmouth have a desire, as much as we do, to work together and have an amicable relationship. So I think that this realignment is important, and it's a step forward for us to show that we're going to make the effort to be good neighbors.
[1:53:25] Council Chair: And having been on that committee for about 10 years, this is the first time I've seen real motivation on their part to come to the table, talk about what can we do jointly, and save money for the taxpayers. So it's a good thing. Any questions from the council of Bob before I send it out to go ahead Andrew so Bobbin on the
[1:53:50] Speaker J (unidentified): Knights Pond is the thought that will be made up of citizens of Cumberland would be on that committee and not being just you know made up of citizens of Cumberland North Harvard I should say and not just members of the town council and the select board for Night Spawn specifically
[1:54:09] Bill Shane: Land conservation, land trust, somebody, those type of people that better understand those things.
[1:54:19] Council Chair: This is a public hearing. Anybody from the public want to be heard on this? Bill?
[1:54:31] Bill Young: Bill Young-Hedgerow, Cumberland Northearm, the Taxpayers Group. We are just giggly that you guys are finally getting together and doing something good, and we are 100% behind you on this. I just want to say that. Thank you, Bill.
[1:54:51] John Jensenius: John Jensenius, Chair of the Recreational Trails Subcommittee and Vice Chair of Lands and Conservation. I know in some of the emails that are in your packet it talks about involving North Yarmouth, North Yarmouth parks and the Recreational Trails Subcommittee. I think it's important to recognize that it's more than just trails. It's important to have the Lands and Conservation Commission very involved in this as well. And the other point that I want to make is I think it's important to identify funding for projects so that when we get to a point where we have something that we'd like to do that we have either have the funding or have a
[1:55:30] Council Chair: path to get the funding. Thank you, John. Thank you for all you do for us. Anybody else in the public want to be heard on this? Bring it back to the council. I
[1:55:47] Speaker I (unidentified): think it's a great idea. I maybe quarterly makes more sense than two to three times a year, but I mean I'll take it. I like that it would be the entirety of both bodies and not onesies, twosies here and there. Cause in my past experience, a lot of what happens at the JSC stays there and then I don't really hear about what happened or I randomly show up to talk about something and now that there's like a power imbalance. Now you have more too many people and we don't have enough people. So both bodies there, everybody understanding what is going on, everyone able to collaborate. 8 I like that a lot better than the way it's been. And also we did just vote both towns and the school board I think unanimously on creating that additional kind of like mini tricom committee where you know two individuals from each body will meet more often probably maybe monthly. So new stuff happening, glad to see it. And that's all. I think it's a good idea. Anything
[1:56:56] Council Chair: else from the council? I'm seeing none. I'll entertain a motion. I can give you one. Go ahead.
[1:57:04] Speaker I (unidentified): All righty, on 26-106, I moved to reorganize the Cumberland North Yarmouth joint standing committee into two separate groups, a Knights Bond committee and a joint standing committee consisting of the Cumberland Town Council and North Yarmouth Select Board, to meet approximately two to three times annually to discuss collaboration, joint projects, mutual concerns
[1:57:24] Council Chair: concerns, and other matters of shared interest. Is there a second? Give a second. Motion is second. Any further discussion from the council? All those in favor? Item 26-107, to consider an act on appropriating local matching funds to support the preliminary design and engineering of the Casco Bay Trail. Anthony?
[1:58:01] Housing Authority representative: Mr. Chairman, as this one was tabled at the last time it was on the council, will need to make a motion to take it off the table this evening as well, correct? So there is
[1:58:13] Council Chair: this has been tabled. Is there a motion to remove it from the table prior to discussing it?
[1:58:24] Bill Shane: I MOVE TO TAKE FROM THE TABLE THE MATTER OF APPROPRIATING LOCAL MATCHING FUNDS TO SUPPORT THE PRELIMINARY DESIGN AND ENGINEERING OF THE CASCO BAY TRAIL.
[1:58:34] Council Chair: IS THERE A SECOND? A SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? ALL RIGHT. IT'S
[1:58:45] Housing Authority representative: ALL YOURS. MORE, MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU, SIR. AS MANY WHO ARE IN THIS ROOM THIS EVENING RECALL, WE HAD, WELL, THE ITEM WAS ON THE agenda back in August. And then in September, earlier in September, there was another workshop that was attended by Dakota. Gosh, Hewlett, sorry, from MDOT. And as well attended as well. And I thought Dakota did a great job answering a lot of questions and addressing a lot of the issues and concerns that were brought up, as well as, I think, quite frankly, brought something that hadn't happened to this point, At least the full exposure that I had in Dakota was there and spent as much time almost as was needed that evening, but a lot of what you have on this evening is as the secondary or the follow-up to that was Referenced at the end of that last meeting that this would come back to the council. So this is part of a Local match that's been asked for by the state or the main DoT. They've currently allocated about six hundred thousand dollars to do the planning and design work or engineering for this project, and it's it's preliminary design, and then it's reached out to four different towns. It would be the town of Cumberland, North Yarmouth,, and Falmouth, actually, I think, actually, I think Portland's involved. North Yarmouth isn't involved at that aspect yet because They're above, they're above the section that's being considered, so apologize for that. But there's a ten percent match, so if there's 600,000 that the state has to kick in as part of the federal requirement, they require that there's a ten percent match that the towns who are involved with this put in. Dakota did address one question that was brought up at that meeting. There's another section, I think it's the mountain division segment, that's over like the brown field section of the state, and they 're not requiring that match up there. He explained the reasoning why the state felt that they didn't have that, and it was, it basically came down to ability to spend, quite frankly, and they're in a different economic situation than the towns that are down here that they'd asked that for, and that was, that was why the DOT took that approach. Now the while construction funding for the project has not yet been identified or committed, the town does know that there are additional future phases that May also require a future match that's to be determined through the whole preliminary design work. So ultimately what this does is, well, is looking to do the preliminary design work for the Casca Bay Trail, which is a multi-community off-road shared use pathway that will ultimately connect the communities between the greater Portland region, beginning in Portland where, or whether, you know, the retired trestle bridge is off the eastern prom, connecting all the way through up to, up into Yarmouth, so it Does run through that on a, on a rail bed that quite frankly the state owns, and it has not, their approach from the RUAC, which is a rail use authority commission, I believe. There's a lot of, when you do these types of things, there's a lot, a lot of acronyms, as you can observe. But they had a recommendation that came from that committee was trail until rail. So what they're looking now at is that the trail, the trail component of it. So what they're looking to do is have the town commit up to $12,000 as their portion of this that was going to be actually there was four towns that were that were in it was originally gonna be $15,000 but there's also though you could tell me the casco bay trail group also donated twelve thousand dollars to this and so i'm just trying to keep all the all the players on the chessboard accurate here but they also committed twelve thousand dollars to offset the local match from through volunteer efforts in their cash so ultimately this would be the playing and Design work where a lot of the issues that have been discussed, we'll get the opportunity to be to be looked at further. It does get the town involved in the conversation. There may be some difference of opinion regarding that, but quite frankly, if we're not involved with the planning and design work, it's awful hard to represent the interests of the town and others who may or may not be in favor or opposed to it. But it does get us into the room, but it does not commit the town to any future financial obligations beyond anything that could have to be separately and subsequently approved by the town. So it doesn't, you free 12 grand, you're not buying the intent, the potential for hundreds of thousands in the future. That question is yet to be answered, but if you don't do the preliminary design work, you're going to have a hard time finding out how much you're actually going to have to spend or what the cost of the project is going to be. So that's that's the step that they're at now, and I think, let's see, right now the participating municipalities have proposed sharing the required local match equally, and I've got over that, and I think I've said about enough, Mr. Chairman. So that's good, thanks Matt. Sorry it's a long-winded way to get
[2:04:13] Council Chair: there, but that's where we're at. Anybody from the council have any questions on Matt before we turn
[2:04:17] Speaker I (unidentified): it over to the public? I have one question, and I should have looked at the packet better and asked you this not right now, but I was anticipating seeing a more official document, like with some whereases and stuff, that we would agree to. I just see the memo and then like the flash vote. Are we going to be doing something more official like, since it's, well, there's finances? Yeah, no,
[2:04:46] Housing Authority representative: thank you for the question, Council Morgan. I think there is, and there's there's a couple different instruments that are out there. 's one, there's like I want to say a local advisory group that would be that's being formed between the different towns to look at this on the go forward, for different like thinking out like how you're gonna maintain it, rules that you're gonna have different areas of collaboration between the towns to make sure that they can find some consensus. That's one area that's there. Ultimately this part here is, I mean, the state just needs to know if the town's gonna commit that $12,000 dollars, and then there's other areas that you can look at for collaboration with other towns when it comes to the management of that, and that's kind of a
[2:05:27] Speaker S (unidentified): Longer term item where it comes to this, okay, I just meant as far as us agreeing
[2:05:33] Speaker I (unidentified): to give them some cash, whether or not we need that in a more formal sort of
[2:05:39] Housing Authority representative: agreement I haven't had anything really provided from the state that 's it but ultimately it's this it's similar to when we like when we just did route 100 hundred work with that was a that was an MPI project whereas we just you know our local share was like 50% of that so we got like a 1.4 million dollar project for 700 grand and that's just how some of those are set up okay as
[2:06:07] Speaker S (unidentified): long as it's good then, seems legit. Anybody any more questions of Matt? Go
[2:06:13] Bill Shane: ahead we are doing a study or engineering work for the reconstruction of greeley road and there is cost associated with that this is a little different would it be appropriate if the council moves forward with a endorsement tonight to make that subject to a review of a document of some sort or was it would be green road's a little different it's a town it's we're the only entity involved with it but whereas this is multiple entities would it be appropriate for us to say our endorsement is subject to the review of something?
[2:07:03] Housing Authority representative: may i jump in on that i would love it if you would counselor folly i 'd say i get
[2:07:11] Speaker H (unidentified): where you're going, Bob. I think for the amount of money that's quite a bit of a, it's a, I understand we want accountability, but I do think that's a an administrative burden, right, that I think we can trust the town staff to look at that agreement and figure it out. If we did that for Route 100 for substantially more cash, I think, I think we can work through this one and trust the town
[2:07:35] Bob: manager to do that i think that was the answer i was looking for thank you counselor any more
[2:07:41] Council Chair: questions from the council all right this is a public hearing we would ask you come up there's a lot of people in the room just keep that in mind when you make any comments you have to you're allowed up to five minutes we want to hear from you but just keep in mind there's a pile of people behind us so anyway somebody step up come on up phil i'm
[2:08:08] Phil Gleason: Phil Gleason, long time Cumberland resident, and I'm also affiliated with the Casco Bay Trail Alliance group, which is sort of working to move this trail forward with the municipalities involved. I think it's important to emphasize that, and I think this has already been said by Matt, but it's worth saying again, that the only issue on the table tonight is writing a check for 12 grand to participate in the design and planning of the trail. Assuming the trail ultimately goes forward, there will be multiple steps after that, but I think it's important that the town be involved at an early stage. The, you know, the phrase that we use is we want a seat at the table. It doesn't, writing a check for 12 grand to get that seat at the table commits us to nothing further, and I think that's often misunderstood, although you've probably heard me say that enough so that you get it at this point. You know what happens down the road, I, this project is not going to get built and construction will not start for at least a couple of years, so it's a long way off. I'm 78 years old. I hope I get to ride on this trail, but I think it's going to be a close call, so I don't have anything more to say than that. I'm here to answer your questions, and if any members of the public have questions, I'll do my best to respond to those as well. Thank you Phil, and thank you for what you've done for the
[2:09:49] Council Chair: the town currently and in the past. Anybody else step up, please introduce yourself. I'm
[2:10:04] Housing Authority representative: David Brink, also about Cumberland, and as we, you were speaking before, working with your neighbors, your towns of North Yarmouth, etc., to the schooling and also the trails up at the ponds and whatnot. Portland is on board with this, Falmouth is on board with this, and Yarmouth is on board with this, and it makes total sense to work with our neighbors to just get a peek at this, to see what's going to be, and if we don't get a peek at this and we'll have more opportunity to design this if we start now rather than wait later, it's, I think it's a very small price to pay for what the potential of this can be. Thank you. Thank you David.
[2:10:56] Council Chair: Anybody else, please. Good.
[2:11:02] Mark Isaacson: Evening, I'm Mark Isaacson, 30-year resident Cumberland. Urge you to go forward with this. Been a long time cyclist since I was a boy, and I think it's important that Cumberland have an opportunity to participate in this design. And one of my great concerns is the prevalence and ever-increasing velocity of e-bikes. And it's important that Cumberland have a voice in how this thing gets used and make sure that it's safe and that it doesn't turn into a motorcycle trail, frankly. So I urge you to support this and have a seat at that table. Somebody else?
[2:11:56] Lucia Stanchoff: Hi, my name is Lucia Stanchoff. I'm a resident of Cumberland. I've been here about 13 years on Tuttle Road. I'm also executive director of the Gear Hub, and I just wanted to speak today that opening the door to this trail is about more than just recreation. It's also about transportation. As somebody who has first-hand experience working with people who can't afford cars or are looking to get around, opening the door to this design would also allow us to open the door to people in Cumberland and other towns who might have difficulty navigating the roads by bicycle and might want a safer way to get from town to town. As a kid I lived in affordable housing, my job was in Falmouth, I lived in Yarmouth, and I had to drive, I had to figure out a way to get a car. It was really hard. A lot of high schoolers on the road bicycling is a lot safer opportunity for people to get from place to place, and I think that if we can look at this trail design like has already been said about opening the door, I just wanted to remind everyone we're opening the door to more than just recreation with this trail. We're opening the door to cleaner air, and we're opening the door to transportation and reaching those who need it. So thank you for considering it, and I urge you to vote to open that
[2:13:10] Council Chair: door. Thank you. Good
[2:13:21] Brian Allen: evening Brian Allen be upon live up on Main Street. Thanks for taking this under consideration. I'm here to urge you to vote to take part in the planning process as well. Two quick points to make. Over the past few weeks David and a few other folks and I have organized and reached out to a number of residents, and we have over 3 500 in private commitments. This is above and beyond anything the Casco Bay Association's been doing. Folks saying I'll give 50 bucks, 100 bucks because they believe in this. And they want this for their town, so it's over 30 residents, 3,500 I think. Even with a little more time, if we needed it, we could get there. So I think it's important to understand that there are folks in this town that believe it enough that even if the town weren't to fund it, they would pay for it out of their own pocket, which hopefully won't be necessary. Second point, this has stirred up, I it feels a lot like the conversation we had around Harris Road not that long ago, and so I was looking back through the newspapers and looking back through some of the coverage, and there was a quote from a town counselor as we were going through all those proceedings, and she said the road connection would help improve connectivity and one of the comprehensive plan's goals is to reduce the town's number of dead end roads, which thought hey that sounds a lot like this, right, we're increasing connectivity for the town and we're really trying to look at the town's comp plan and how to how to factor that in, right, and how to make decisions based on those things. And you know I know there as with Harris Road there was you know folks and I see some of the folks in the room here who were impacted by that decision. And so there are always some folks who are gonna be more impacted than others, but that counselor saw fit to kind of put the goods, the needs of the many ahead of the needs of the one, right? And so I think it's important to remember that in this case as well. And I am sorry, because I don't think Shirley is here, but that was Shirley's quote, so I thought we could ask her about that too.
[2:15:15] Council Chair: Thank you. Anybody else again?
[2:15:27] Chris Yale: Chris you agree the road as I stated before this trail is going to happen whether you're the seat of the table or not. It isn't a lot of money, no money's money though, so I'd almost say before this and before it to be in the seat of the table and to say okay, we do want to have access to it, but where is Cumberland's access going to be, and how do we get to it? Lee mentioned e-bikes. I drive for a living. I see e-bikes all over the place. So this would be a connector for people to run e-bikes down the road and be able to pull them back and forth. It would give them access and get them off the road. As I drive for a living, a big tri-wheeler, It's bikes are you pull up and you get scared to make sure you can get around them and give them enough space. So this would be a good connector for that. So I Just want to say that thanks Chris
[2:16:34] Council Chair: Anybody else good
[2:16:41] Phil Gleason: Evening counselors. I'm him David Latula. My daughter lives at Hillcrest Drive with her fiance.
[2:16:48] Matt: She's an adaptive rider drives all around Cumberland on recumbent bike,
[2:16:53] Speaker H (unidentified): and having that dedicated trail would be fabulous for her and her fiance. Thank you.
[2:17:04] Jonathan Labrie: Hello, I'm Jonathan Labrie on 270 Main Street and I've spoken before in support of this and I'm here again just to urge you to commit the funds and get us involved in this in this study. I understand there's a lot of issues but it's a huge opportunity. It's a really exciting opportunity for those of us who love the trails and bike and commute by bike and so love to see us be part of this and understand the design and figure out how to address some of the concerns that are out there but see this as just a huge community building opportunity for us and we're excited about it so I hope you vote for it thank you thank you Jonathan Hopps from Cumberland I just want to let you know that my wife and I have found rail trails in our late 60s and absolutely love them we have been to Cape Cod we've been to Montreal we've been to Vermont and it is a wonderful way of developing community for the times that you're on the trail you meet people from all parts of the world you have conversations the economic boost is unbelievable as people stop to get lunch somewhere or a cup of coffee and I just think as far as in this day and age of divisiveness and meanness that this is an opportunity to meld communities together thank you very
[2:18:23] Bob: much anybody
[2:18:26] Council Chair: else please Eli
[2:18:34] Wilson: Wilson Range Road I'd like to second what I heard from so many people as somebody who bike commutes I really would appreciate having a designated area that isn't next to cars that's fantastic but even more so what I want to speak to is I've got two young kids and it would be great to have a place where I felt safe to bring them and I know they will be old enough by the time this is built that it might not be for them but like it would be nice to have a place where you feel comfortable to take kids to learn to bike that's a long stretch it's not just going around the you know the school like parking lots or whatever so for that reason i think it's you know one more one more reason thank you
[2:19:19] Tiffany Townsend: Please, hi, my name is Tiffany Townsend. I live on Middle Road. I'm in a butter to the trail rail. And first, I want to say that I am hugely in support of this. I was here a couple of weeks ago or months ago when Dakota was here, and a couple other questions came up. And one of them is that I have heard tonight that there will be a seat at the table. I have also heard some of my neighbors say that is a lie, that we won't have a seat at any sort of table. And so I'm hoping that maybe that could be addressed in your discussion tonight. I don't know what $12,000 gets us other than we're saying that yes, as a community, we support this, but I'd like to know exactly what a seat at the table means, if that's possible to hear from. I also would like to know, and I don't expect this to be done tonight, but I'm seeing the questions here for the record. I'm curious if there are any reliable studies that are out there that showing that an abutters property to a rail trail either enhances or detracts from property values. I have not heard anything about that conversation and a quick search on my own, I have not been able to find anything of that. Secondly, my next question is there's quite a bit of noise on 295. When I sit in my backyard it's a white noise humming in the background and so I'm hopeful that if we do get a voice and what this project looks like will there be a noise study because it would be a terrible disservice to have this project go through all this money be spent and two people can't walk along this trail and have a conversation because the noise from the traffic is so loud probably not an issue with the commuters is there you know maybe ear budding or something of that nature but For the casual family or community member to walk on this trail that could be a significant component thanks so much for your time thank you
[2:21:27] Council Chair: Anybody else before we bring it back to the council seeing none i'll open it up please hi
[2:21:45] John Jensenius: Greg Wiesner on Labrador Lane in Cumberland the other part that i think is important about the twelve thousand dollar funding to get to be part of the community the planning project is I know that we know we've talked a lot about real regionalization and cost sharing and sort of thoughtful planning with our neighbor partners whether it be through you know mass purchasing or something like that with the inherent cost that will come necessarily for planning this and we're planning for future Costs after it's actually built, it would be great to be part of those discussions, so it's a thoughtful process that involves everybody, because I personally, without knowing for sure, think it's going to end up happening, because it's happening on property that we don't necessarily control. But if we're part of the organization that actually strategically decides how to fund it moving forward, like people raising funds privately now, there's an opportunity for you all or whoever gets designated to be part of that process. So again, the focus on regionalization, I think, is where we get cost savings over time. So thank you. Thanks, Greg.
[2:22:51] Council Chair: Anybody else in the public?
[2:22:53] Public commenter (veterans monument): Please, John. John
[2:23:02] John Jensenius: Tansenius, 44 Laurel Lane, speaking for myself this time. I just wanted to say I know Tiffany touched upon this, talking about people walking on the trails, but all we've heard tonight is about bikers. I think this, as this is stated, is a multi-use trail. I myself have run over 100 miles this year on rail trails south of Portland. Portland. I would appreciate having one closer by that I didn't have to drive so far to. But while I'm running, I see lots of people. I see bikers. I see walkers. I see runners. And I think it's important to realize that there are a lot of people, including bikers, that would be using this trail. Thanks, Sean.
[2:24:00] Lala Carruthers: Super quick. Lala Carruthers from Main Street in Cumberland, and I coach Nordic skiing. And with our, we hope it's not a short and snow season this year, but before the season starts, it's really nice to have a place to go roller skiing, we're running or whatever, that doesn't include a parking lot, which can be a little bit scary, especially at the middle school level, so just throwing that out there
[2:24:23] Tiffany Townsend: too, thank you, thank you so
[2:24:39] Bill Young: I'm all for a planning part of this. I think the to $12,000 to be well spent. What I'm hearing though is that we're going forward. And I wasn't gonna say anything because I'm all for the planning part of it. But you know, I also kind of belong to that tax group. And so I want to read you a couple of things. Not a great public speaker, so I wrote it down. So I'm gonna throw a blanket on this just for a second. So first, the school came out with something today. So I'll read this first. Budget preview. I've anticipated expenses associated with the shift to new grade spans in 2728. It may feel like it's a bit early to be talking about the district's budget a year in advance, but with the upcoming opening of the new Carol F small school and one campus shift in grade levels, I'm starting to bring information to the board well in advance of the typical budget season. Much of the anticipated budgetary implications in 2728 include staffing increases for the new school building, a new state law shifting special education services three or four year olds to local schools, continuing staffing additions to meet increases in student enrollment, debt service on the new building, estimated utility costs, and expense reductions after the modular classrooms are removed. That came out today, all right? Now some of you don't read Facebook, but I wrote something this past week. Voters in the SAD 51 district voted in a school bond of 53.5 million, which included the new school, turf field, and maintenance building. Soon the board will be locking in the bond rate, likely be anywhere between four and 5%. It came in at, the estimated 4% were well over 5% on a double A bond right now. And this will last for 30 years unless they are able to shorten the term with larger, more frequent payments. We need a new school, we voted on it, and now we are going to pay for it with no help from anyone in government, just the residents, of which 60% have no children in the school system. Recently, my wife and I were in Ellsworth on our way home from up to camp, and stopped in to see an exhibit of 12 main mighty girls who had great influence. The exhibit was called 12 Main Women, Portraits of Change, sponsored by the Francis Perkins Center. One of them was Sherry Mitchell. She's a lawyer, an indigenous, and human rights advocate. Each woman had a quote, and her quote kind of struck me. Of course, it was about the course that we are taking in these two towns in regards to how taxes are putting a major burden on many folks. Her quote. Please listen carefully. I had to read it a number of times. Rights and responsibilities cannot be separated. Every right we stand upon must be balanced by a set of corresponding responsibilities. We cannot legitimately make a demand unless we are willing to take responsibility for creating a world where that demand can be met. Can that demand be met by the seniors in this town and the other people that are struggling? We all know, right? So as we go forward this year and into budget season, we hope that when you go to vote on any budget item, you realize how that vote will affect the community. No doubt these are strange times, but it's how we deal with all the needs of our community that will make it sustainable for all. Education is a right, but so is being able to stay in a home you built and lived in all these years as you age. You shouldn't have to decide between heat and food or losing your home for escalating taxes. The responsibility of having a great community relies on your understanding of the consequences of your vote. Wants versus needs, demands and responsibility. Please give that some thought. Thank you, Bill.
[2:28:47] Council Chair: Anybody else before we close the public hearing portion of this? Okay, I'll bring it back to the council discussion. Go ahead, Andrew.
[2:28:59] Speaker J (unidentified): I know you are. I wasn't necessarily preparing to. Say anything, so I think the, a few good points have been brought up, that we don't own the land, the state is going to do what the state wants to do on it, and if we want to see about access for Cumberland, that we need to be involved in that. And I think that there are some potential areas that people have brought up, either, you know, the Power Road or the bridge, looking at those access points, but a lot of the questions that people have can only be answered by doing the work. And if it costs the twelve thousand dollars to do that work as part of the larger effort, then I think that's a good thing to get those questions answered. The answer to those questions might be no, the answer to those questions might be yes, but the other way to get them is to actually spend the money to get the information that we need.
[2:30:11] Council Chair: Thank you, I
[2:30:14] Councilor Jeff: just got one question right now, but we've talked about 8,500, are we talking about 12,000? Probably ought to make that point clear, we
[2:30:22] Council Chair: talked about that. Okay, so
[2:30:30] Speaker H (unidentified): probably no secret that for spending the money to do this, you know, to not belabor the point, but this is an engineering study, and the process of the engineering study is to answer the questions. You know, I am truly respectful of the expenditure, Bill, that was, you know, a great quote, and you know, I don't like to see us spend money with no, you know, clear path forward, but I think this is money well spent. I think it will answer a lot of the questions that folks on the council have had, right, they're all Good questions, things that we've worked through in the workshops. I think they're by being at the table here, right? We also know that the CMP is looking at upgrades along the corridor, right? This is a way to engage and maybe consider, you know, how we do those CMP upgrades, right? That will impact those abutters there and maybe incorporate that with some of the work on the rail trail, right? But if we don't, if we're not participating as part of that, we don't necessarily have that voice. Again, right, you know, there's lots of good comments. I agree, it can be noisy down there, but that doesn't seem to stop people from using trails like that, right? Depending on where you go, people still use those trails regardless. You know, I can think of places in DC or other areas where they're pretty noisy trails and people still use them every day. But it's a great comment, right? It's something to be considered again, state-owned land, right? In the world of impacts, you know, I do, I have heard the folks down on Middle Road, I can, many of those people I've known for many years, consider some of them friends, so I don't take making a decision, you know, to support this slightly, but we'll do not do know that the closest residents to the right of the way is 250 feet, so I wish I had a 250-foot backyard, but I do not, so but I do understand their concerns. And I've heard their concerns. I do think this provides an alternate path for folks to trans, to recreate. I had the opportunity to ride the new section of the East Coast Greenway from South Portland down to Bitterford the other day. It's great, the new bridge is in there, and I, it is a great asset for folks walking, biking, people walking their kids, walking their dog out there. It is just right, it's, it's a real component of the communities, and what I always find on there is that the people on those trails are very respectful of abutters and of others, and they appreciate the activities there, and they appreciate the use of the trail. I will say that for my short time on the council, I think the majority of the emails that have come through on the short time of my council, on the council, are for support of this. It's got to be 20 to 1. I didn't do the math, but it's at least in that neighborhood. I appreciate the fact that folks went out and kind of put their money where their mouth lays and, you know, pledged to support this. If that's really the issue, I don't think that's the way we should go, but I think it's a show of support. And then I'll also go back to the fact that, you know, both on the flash vote in the comp plan, right, this has been something that, as everybody has talked about and wanted to, are not everybody, but a large proportion, the majority of the folks in town have that participated in these surveys, supported. To me, you know, when I see that, I see what comes out, what's come out of the comp plan, the flash vote survey, and the level of support that we've seen from the public. I think it's pretty hard as a council for us not to
[2:34:41] Bob: to approve this, but that's my view of the world. Great, thanks. Go ahead, me. Okay, I'm glad that
[2:34:52] Speaker I (unidentified): Phil brought up what this is and what it isn't, and I'll clarify again. This is only 12,000 for design study. It is not an endorsement or signing on of the interlocal agreement. It is not agreeing to trail construction, because some of the emails we did receive made it sound like this was an endorsement of the project and signaling that we were going to be going forward with it, and that's not what this is. So just making sure that we're all clear on that. I think we are at this point. This doesn't buy us a seat at the table. I know that wording has been passed around. I know Dakota cleared that up for us. It does allow us to be involved in the design study, and for me, the main reason I would want to be involved is to ensure that Cumberland residents have access to this proposed Trail in Cumberland, or else what really is the benefit if there's no access for residents? Because there certainly isn't going to be an economic boost for Cumberland unless you're going to foresight outdoor power, and then like taking a snowblower with you down the trail, there really isn't anything that we'll see from that on the economic side of things. And it's, there's, this is the first step, and for me, I do support doing the twelve thousand dollars initially, just to ensure that we have access. But seat at the table as far as decision making, to me that is something that comes later if you agree to the interlocal agreement and are a member of that board and that decision-making body, if you choose to join the Agreement, which it's not mandatory, towns can go it alone, but that's kind of putting the cart before the horse. But just since people are kind of pairing these two things together, it is not a done deal. The design study is just the first step. It's going to be years before anything is ever done on it, if it even is. There's a lot of things in flux, and I don't necessarily trust that the government's going to come give us money for this. Funding may fall through. We may be on the hook for over a million dollars a mile on the town side of things. So first steps first is doing this. I think if people want to donate, feel free to. I am not basing my decision on that. We should prove something because we think it's the right thing to do, not because the community is helping us fund it, in my opinion at least. And what else, just to restate, I know we're not here yet, but at this point I wouldn't vote in favor of anything beyond the study. It's at a minimum hundreds of thousands of dollars in a match for construction, which is untenable for me given all the other priorities we have, including people without water in town, the need of water line ran and improvements and things like that. There's just so many other things that are more important when I consider putting the needs of the many ahead of one. This is one of those things where I'm thinking of the entire town. And then I wanted to read what Counselor Philson sent via email since she's She's not here to give her own opinion and is not here to vote. However, still wanted to make sure that her thoughts were heard. So she said, I'm in favor of the initial 12,000 investment for the engineering work. That said, I have major reservations about what happens if federal funding for construction doesn't come through. I know we won't have that answer for a few years, but I think it's worth managing expectations now. Approving this 12,000 does not mean the town will be writing a check for 1.2 million per mile if DOT funding doesn't materialize when the time comes, the rubber
[2:38:49] Bill Shane: meets the road. I've lived here for over 60 years. I've seen a lot of change, all my playgrounds as a child, our housing developments today, with the exception of Knights Knight's Pond. Dick Knight created that little oasis up there, but he wouldn't let anybody on the property except when the ice was frozen. He would allow us to go up and play hockey on it in the winter, and lots of fun playing hockey up there as a kid. We've done a lot of things in this community over the years. It took us three tries to get access to the water. We didn't get to Twin Brooks without some controversy. Everything we've done in this town has had the distractors and naysayers and negativity, and a lot of it has been well warranted. But the fact of the matter is we've moved ahead and we've, we've created some real places of importance for the town. I think about the things that I use. I don't have a library card, but I support it wholeheartedly. I've been to Twin Brooks a couple of times to watch my kid, my son, when he was a skier or running cross country. I do use the town forest to hike on Sundays with my dogs, so there's a lot of amenities that over the years that you know I've supported with my tax dollars but haven't, haven't used. So I do support the expenditure of the twelve thousand dollars, but I think what I want to have to show to everyone here this evening is perhaps a response to Bill, to Bill Young. We have a duty to spend every dollar equally and not frivolously. It's all done with responsibility. Tomorrow evening is probably the most the biggest opportunity in my lifetime that I've seen. We're going to have five communities, cities, Falmouth, Yarmouth, Freeport, North Yarmouth, and Cumberland, the elected bodies of the town councils, select boards, and the school boards will sit down and talk about collaboration, and not on a small scale but on a large scale. So the idea that we just have money to spend freely is not true, but I do think we're going to spend it wisely. I would hope that you folks would question how we spend $12,000 for a study on the rails, but also that you would come back next meeting and question us on how we sat down and discussed collaboration with five of the communities, because those are equally as important. I am going to vote in favor of this evening.
[2:42:06] Councilor Jeff: Jeff? Yeah. I mean, this is a tough one. I mean, a lot of people have sent voicemails and text messages and e-mails, and I've met with people that have supported this, and I've also met with people that weren't in favor of it. And I don't want to minimize the concerns of the abutters. I mean, basically, their backyard has been unchanged for decades. Decades, and you know what I think is important for everyone to remember is this is change, and change is uncom uncomfortable for people at times. So you know, just imagine all of a sudden your backyard becomes industrial zoned and somebody wants to build a modern car dealership or cement plant in the backyard. Probably pretty shocking to hear. So be try to be sympathetic of those the abutters with this whole process. You know, I think there's a potential for this to do some really good stuff for the community. You know, flash vote, yeah, there was 367 votes and 59% of them supported the trail. Tonight, we're just talking about the engineering of the trail, not the construction. There's no guarantee, in my opinion, construction will follow. I'll be honest, and I've said it many times in these meetings we really got to figure out where our capital funding is going to line up with stuff like this you know Lily talked about people about water that's the top priority to me for people West Cumberland talked about Greeley Road talked about aging rolling stock to the town owns and then somehow we got to fit this in as well and we hear about people's taxes of concerns and I think that's what's really challenging is we can't show you folks The tangibles behind some of those numbers very easily and that's something that I'd like to see us really work on so that when we talk about let's just say we get to the point where there is construction funding to discuss with this that when we start talking about say six hundred thousand dollars you can see where it fits and what the impact is going to be because right now I think that's the most important thing we can have to try to make these decisions because otherwise I look at it as Like I'm shooting from the hip up here right now so I'm a gambling person to be honest with you and if I had it my way I'd play chicken with the state and say you know what you figure it out but the butters mean a lot to me and I do believe that being involved in the engineering part of this project is going to help look out for their interest and I will be honest of you that's a big part as to why I'm going to look to approve and move in this direction but you know if I had it my way I'd just Play a game of chicken so you go to Las Vegas you can find me at the crafts tables so that's that's where I said anybody else this
[2:45:37] Council Chair: Is tough. I've, as long as I've been on the council, I've supported every trail proposal in this town, every single one, and never regretted a vote. We've always worked with our neighbors. I'm not there tonight. I can get there. I can get there at the Casco Bay Alliance and the state works with the abutters, but they haven't. Casco Bay Alliance trail lions in the state ignored the abutters for the last two years, and that really hit home because most of these people I grew up with, I've known since we were I was a kid, and I can't turn my back on them. When we were doing other projects in town looking for us land for a salt shed, we listened to our neighbors. We listened to every single one of our neighbors when they came up and they opposed it, and we finally found a spot, but I voted against those spots because I listened to the neighbors and their concerns. If nothing else, my vote tonight is a vote of support for the abutters. But I'm just letting you guys know I can get there. You can get me there as long as we keep listening to the abutters and the people's concerns. And if the state and Casco Bay can meet these people at least halfway, you can bring me over. But for tonight, I'm voting in support of the abutters, the majority of the abutters, and that's all I got. But I just want to, just a final note. We had the, oh, a month or so ago, we had the workshop on this trail. And in my 14 years on the council, it's probably the best. It was well attended. It was so good, the back and forth and the people that were pro-trail really listened to the people, the abutters and the abutters were listening to the pro-trail people, and I made the comment afterwards that it's really a great civic lesson, and I feel the same way tonight. You guys have been great. This is good stuff and just makes you a lot more proud to be part of this town. So with that, do we have anything else from the council on it? Do
[2:48:18] Bill Shane: we have a motion? I will give you one, Mr. Chairman. I move to appropriate 12 000 to support the preliminary design and engineering of the Casco Bay trial. We have a
[2:48:28] Council Chair: second. I will second. Any more discussion from the council? We have a motion and a second. All those in favor and one opposed. Thank you very much folks. Tonight really was a good night. Thank you everyone
[2:48:51] Speaker G (unidentified): wants to leave. I can't understand why we haven't even gotten to new business yet.
[2:48:57] Speaker S (unidentified): Thanks for coming. I'm gonna like talk about this. We're
[2:49:07] Speaker I (unidentified): not done yet. Do people know that we're not
[2:49:08] Council Chair: Done yet? No, we're not done, we're not done yet. All right, if we can, we're gonna go into new business. New business would start with you last week, Bob. We'll start with Bill.
[2:49:32] Speaker H (unidentified): Sure, so new business, I think we heard earlier about the concerns about the
[2:49:40] Speaker I (unidentified): playground, right? Can't really hear you. Wait till people quiet down or exit the
[2:49:50] Speaker S (unidentified): room, preferably. Thanks. They're not, they don't see my motions. All right, Bill, go ahead. All right,
[2:50:03] Speaker H (unidentified): so new business, I heard the comments from the folks about the playground and I went to Trail Fest the other day and spoke with folks about that, had several folks speak with me about that there. So I don't know what the best way is to kind of hear their concerns. I know Mr. Manager that you know you've direct folks to come in and talk with the folks at you know Peter Brigham Jr., the folks at Parks and Recreation there to you know get their concerns in there, but I do you know there is you know Sarah obviously spoke kind of passionately about the concern about the process, etc. So I don't know what the best path is forward to go forward with this and you know how we listen to their concerns and implement those, you know. I know we are down a path already and I'm not suggesting that we stop the path, but you know are there ways to improve it? So I think that's something that I would encourage the town staff to go forward with and see if we can get some input and maybe recommendations to move forward, because I don't think this one's going to go away. And then I also want to, I did not do this last meeting but I will, Bill came up, Bill Young came up and spoke about the traffic on Hedgerow and I can tell you that when I walk there at night frequently, especially around nine o'clock when Rachel's closes or it is a very busy area, it's you know folks running up Pedro and you know speed bumps slow folks down, but you know I don't, I don't know what the other, if there's other traffic calming things we can do to try to get people to go out Valhalla Road and go up you know Greeley Road instead. So that's that story and then the other one I'd say is I know this is coming up but I would love to hear more about where we're going on the design of Greatly Road as well in the future. Thanks Phil, Jeff. All right.
[2:52:14] Councilor Jeff: Twenty dollars for the food pantry. And despite yesterday's weather, I took some time to visit the Cumberland Fair and just want to thank our fire department and our police department for their dedication and support in this event. They were out in rain gear and, you know, not just hiding under a building, and they were doing their job and representing us very well as a town and excellent level of professionalism. And I think it's goes without saying, but you know, it involves people stepping up and working additional hours and overtime. And I think it's only fair that we acknowledge those employees for doing so this week. So, you know, just had two difficult items that we had to discuss tonight, talked about housing and we talked about this rail trail. And I know I'm a broken record because I've already said it twice tonight, but I really feel we owe our citizens some tangible items behind our upcoming capital expenses and showing them, yeah, when we finance, you know, 600 000 is needed, what is behind the 600 000. So, you know, and here's why I'm really asking for it, you know, we talked about the new committee with working with the school, it's already, Bill already hit home about it 's going to be a challenging year of upcoming school expenses. We know we're going to have a challenging year, but come budget time we're going to find some expense that's going to be critical. And if I can go to that committee and maybe show what that critical expense is and not just dollars and cents, but what it actually is and what it provides the citizens, does it open some eyes? I don't know, but I look at what's the why behind the money and that's what I'm trying to get to. You know, we talk about housing and rail trail, where does it all fit in? Because there's some expenses we can't just put off. I sleep pretty not well at night knowing I have a good ambulance. So, you know, I don't want to put us in a position where we're putting stuff off like that. With our population, we need those things. So with that all being said, I 'd like to try to formally discuss this a little bit more and what we can provide our citizens with visibility. So I don't know what your thoughts are, but I think it'd be nice to talk about it, you know, sooner rather than later. Matt, I don't know if you have any ideas or anything you could, you could share with us maybe in the next meeting, but it'd be nice just to put on this agenda item. And if the six other people on this board say it's the wrong way to go, then I'm going to drop it. I'm going to say That I'm just trying to give everyone the visibility so they can understand where the funding is going to come from. Because at the end of the day, I really don't want to tax people out of their homes, and I don't want to promote one thing to cause other people in this town to struggle. It's we talk about sustainability, and I want to be sustainable for everyone, and that's my goal. So that's just why I'm asking for this, because I think the only way we can do it is to have the data and the tangibles. Thank you nice Jeff Lily all right have
[2:55:52] Speaker I (unidentified): You heard anything about an ETA on when the first meeting of that mini tricom committee will meet as
[2:56:01] Housing Authority representative: Of the end of the day today no okay but just curious I think they were just I think the school chair was, I think she was taking point on that.
[2:56:13] Speaker I (unidentified): Okay, good deal. Just figured I'd check in shortly.
[2:56:16] Housing Authority representative: I can reach out to the superintendent to see if they have an update. I'll see them tomorrow, so.
[2:56:21] Speaker I (unidentified): Okay. Thank you for doing the overview of the Twinbrook Playground, how we got here, and clearing up the PFAS thing. I understand about PFAS testing. It only tests for a little bit of substances. That was my main beef with the turf field. Field there was an email suggesting that if I was anti-infiltrator field I should also be anti-poured rubber surface I don't feel that those are the same thing one is hundreds of tons of crumb rubber that is getting inhaled and kicked up and washing into the environment poor rubber especially if it's PFAS free by you know all intents and purposes you can't guarantee it is probably the best surface for a DA compatibility and there's poured rubber on the track I believe around the school track Yeah so it's just saying I don't think those are two equal things I was looking at what was available regarding the whole parks decision. And I was able to find that there was an agenda and pretty detailed minutes on the town website under the parks and rec advisory board for the months of February, March, April, and May. And then it wasn't a specific agenda item. However, it was talked about extensively during the manager's report on Monday, June 29th, when Pete Bingham gave us a slide deck overview of the project and where we're at and what they determined. There was the issue of dogs. We have discussed this a little bit and I think we had asked the ordinance committee to revisit dogs potentially at this playground, if not banning them entirely, and I think that was going to be looked at along with the chicken ordinance. Do we have any updates on that? Have you guys thought about talking about that a little more?
[2:58:21] Bill Shane: Chair of the audience, eventually. Exactly. I have avoided even thinking about that. You better do it.
[2:58:30] Speaker I (unidentified): So yeah, dogs and chickens. Yes, please. We will, we will get to that. Okay.
[2:58:34] Bridget Perry: Okay, so there's that.
[2:58:37] Speaker I (unidentified): I don't want to sour the potentially wonderful new era of collaboration with North Yarmouth Select Board. I would ask that perhaps as a show of good faith that perhaps maybe our first new joint standing committee, we could ask them if they would like to revisit the cost sharing agreement with the school board rather than us having to do a petition. If we wanna just get to it. Perhaps they feel a little bit differently about it now. So that's a question. I think the last thing is still waiting for our last remaining council priorities survey to be delivered to me and I will compile that stuff and put it in a readable form. I think that we are gonna do a workshop to talk about that along with a council work plan, which I think would be a really good opportunity to talk about Jeff's thing because it kind of goes with that, getting all the stuff in a readable form, and I don't remember if that was October 13th or 26th. October 13th. Okay, so I will have survey results for you guys at that time, October 13th. Just been waiting on
[2:59:50] Speaker S (unidentified): you, Bill, if you want to submit them. That's it. Andrew, I'll
[2:59:57] Speaker J (unidentified): try to be short and sweet. October 7th at 7 o'clock, the LCC has its meeting, its monthly meeting here in Council Chambers. So that's not next week, but the week after. I think that's it.
[3:00:13] Bill Shane: Robert? Okay, tomorrow night. This is in response to you, Jeff. I hope you've spent a lot of time thinking about tomorrow night because I have thought a lot about tomorrow night. This is where we have an opportunity to show the public what leadership can be. Five communities are going to get together tomorrow. Five select boards, town councils, and school boards. The challenge, this comes from the executive director of Greater Portland Council on Government. The group will focus on the political will for substantial collaboration, which would likely involve communities giving up some local control and or sharing resources. This will not be a discussion about smaller efforts with smaller returns, but rather gauges their genuine interest and will for difficult collaborative work. You know, I've got lots of ideas, you know, and I've got lots of ideas how we can, the schools can collaborate, you know, and we had an exercise here a couple weeks ago about cutting 5% out of municipal budget, you know. What does that exercise look like and how do we offset that 5% by collaborating with other communities? communities. I've said this a number of times. I'll say it one more time. Hancock Lumber has 800 employees in three different states. They have one person who does payroll. The opportunity for the schools to have a single payroll system, the municipalities to have a single payroll system is not rocket science. It's, you know, the rest of the country operates rates on a larger scale than the entire state of Maine. There was an accident on the Turnpike the other night. Ronnie Kopp relayed this story to me. The accident was in Gray. Cumberland responded first because they could get up the Turnpike headed north. By the time the whole thing was done, there was three communities involved, Gray, Falmouth, and Cumberland with six pieces of apparatus on the road. So the idea that shared services can't be extended expanded beyond the property lines of a community, we just can't do that anymore. The tax burden that's coming with our next tax bill, with the school coming on board, with the debt load, additional staffing, it's imperative that we all sit down tomorrow night with a degree of seriousness about what we can do, what is the will, the political will of just not just us but all of us. I think we all have to come tomorrow night with you know fresh ideas you know and we're ready to try something. The alternative is taxes now and one piece of good news this also this also came from ronnie cop the and i think it's spelled m-e-r-e but i know i can't pronounce it mayor they had an opening day the other day and ronnie said they were people lined up across
[3:03:44] Housing Authority representative: the street oh that's great yeah 25 deep out the door that's awesome i had a minimum i have a
[3:03:52] Speaker I (unidentified): Question for Bob. Hey Bob, on those meetings that you guys are having in Yarmouth, like kind of leading up to all of this, did was there a consensus yet on what you guys are thinking of? Are we talking about like consolidating fiery MS is like that? You're talking about large stuff? Yeah, like large-scale stuff. So is that what this anonymous vote will be tomorrow is seeing what
[3:04:18] Bill Shane: people are actually willing to do? I really don't know. Christine is a gen. We had a couple of meetings and out of that meeting was the decision that we should involve everybody and the fact that we got the schools to agree to come, I think it was substantial good news for all of us. So we don't I don't have any preconceived ideas of where tomorrow night is gonna go. I'd like to think that I would know
[3:04:47] Speaker I (unidentified): how it might play out, but if anything people get to hang out and eat food and
[3:04:53] Speaker S (unidentified): meet new people. Yeah.
[3:05:01] Council Chair: I had some stuff tonight but I don't think I'll wait Bob. I really enjoyed the discussion earlier six o'clock on the housing. Thank you Bill. Bob, it was very good. Just want to repeat what I said earlier tonight was a great exercise and good civics and you know we'll we'll work together as a community. So that being said we're going to go into executive session. Do we have if somebody will give us a motion I'll give
[3:05:41] Speaker I (unidentified): you a motion. I move to recess to executive session pursuant to title one MRSA 4056c regarding acquisition of real property and 4056a regarding a personnel matter. Second.
[3:05:57] Councilor Jeff: Good.
[3:06:04] Council Chair: Night folks. Thank you.