Castine Hears Engineer's Priority List for Underground Infrastructure Work

[9:16] Chair/presiding officer: Otherwise, I can reject my voice. Let's chat, there we go. Welcome everybody, appreciate you all coming. This is a presentation by Amelie Stafford, all of our associates who operate our sewer system, our water system for us here in Caspian. [9:36] Derrick Goodine, Town Manager: My name is Derrick Goodine, by the way, if you didn't know, I'm the town manager. [9:41] Chair/presiding officer: Joined by our free selectmen. Would you like to introduce yourself, Robert? No, I'm a bird box woman. Amy, Dan, you're all gone. Anyways, just as a quick update before we get into our underground infrastructure, I just wanted to give you an update on the acquired space unit project is, and that is we are currently in negotiations with WBRC to do landscape architect work in the design of the engineering. And as that moves forward, we'll continue that at select ordinance beyond that you can turn it over on lease this is information only yes it's informational only what I'm going to take out of this is your public comments but also start looking at our debt service schedules which I actually have up on the computer now and then see how we get out of this or how we get into it so, Annalise, no question about it, really. I don't know if you can hear me, so it's great. It's great to be here. All right. I'm not gonna hold onto the microphone. Make sure you can hear me out back. I tend to talk kind of quiet most of the time. So, why am I in East Hafford? I'm actually one of the partners there, and I've been there about 25 years, working on many different aspects of underground infrastructure, wastewater treatment, we meant design, roadway improvements, sidewalks, all kinds of different things. Contract's got 31 facilities now, which is quite a lot of work. So pretty busy most of the time, but I'm really happy to be here tonight. And this is really just my attempt to put together a priority list and a schedule. It isn't the priority that'll probably end up being in the long run because sometimes things change or somebody has a development somewhere, and that person's a priority to serve them better. So I just tried to put together an update to the original and the old one. Also, one thing I want to mention, there's a lot of cost numbers back. I'm not going to read them to you, but the cost of infrastructure improvements is really staggering. Since COVID, the cost to do work is what we do. it seems like you 're paying twice in our money is what it was prior to covid cost of like a treatment plan after it used to be like i don't know 15 million sounded horrible now it's like 30 million so it's just staggering so i just kind of wanted to mention that prices that i have the numbers at the end of this presentation are really our best estimate the town has been successful recently in getting some funding which is really big to hear because in the past casting never got any grant and we were able to get a professional grant for the C Street pump station and also some design money for one of the priorities in this presentation. So I had some background information I want to talk about first. The town is trying to keep its master plan up to date. It's really important to have a master plan if the plan is what you're going to do, it is just a plan and it's a draft. The original plan was back in 2009, like I mentioned, it was quite a long time ago, and staffs to update the remaining project costs and try to set priorities back in December of 2020. We added a couple things to the original plan, nothing major. Basically we added a little green on the School Street and we added some work on the Large Street wall decision making for the town. I don't know if we get in tonight, but that wall does hold up, so I included in the cost in the plan just some conversation about that well. So I just want to make that clear and that the priority list can change, so I was trying make sure that's clear, and the updated plan did not really go into the thick details of the original. All those things are still the same. The roads weren't rebuilt in the same condition as they were when they started completing this for Casting, so I just want to make that clear. I didn't think it would work mentioning some of the work that the town has done, because they have done really quite a bit of work even though we haven't done that together. It did seem like kind of they've done the whole extent of Battle Avenue and its infrastructure, Main Street, we all remember the Main Street project, I don't think I'll ever forget that, allowed me to Water Steven Street, C Street area, initially I noticed Water Street between Plus and Main, Kirkland Street of course, you know this not after Wanda, I say that road to Battle Avenue, and right now I'm working on the C Street pump station that should be able to bid January, February in time for town meeting. Trying to make sure that we're in the right time frame so that we can get approval for what is needed minus the congressional grant that we were able to get. And I'm not going to read all the overlay areas. You know it better than me to drive the roads every day. It's quite a considerable effort to keep the roads in the condition at least there are in and the town spent some money on overlays and in the report I concluded that it was about seventy nine thousand dollars seventy nine thousand dollars a mile to do overlays which you can't even match nowadays the cost of payment sometimes towns get a deal when they have a paving contractor but when it's in a big infrastructure project it's usually not as reasonable so I just thought I would give you that summary and on the next page I talked about of priority planning so there has to be a way that you prioritize all this work so you can actually get out of your own way and get something done and what we kind of looked at was the corporate issues three's undersized water mean undersized water means a big of course trying to build out safety site something there housing things like that have to be part of the party plan now I think here there's also doesn't need excess water from leaking sewer pipes we've actually done a lot of sewer upgrades in this town so on the sewer side for once there's some less it's less expensive to do that like if you were to do this whole plan and one which would never be able to even do the whole thing the suicide was less of a problem than in some past years so that was kind of what we looked at and as far as you know the town in the past has liked to group projects together I have no idea if that's what's going on going forward now or we're going to just do one thing at a time this is our kind of our first meeting that we've had to kind of discuss this and another thing in the projects which I really haven't specifically mentioned but would be looked at referring each design phase accessibility how to make access to you know sidewalks on this community I see people walking all the time that type of thing so all of this in the future will include provisions for that wasn't really the prior setting part of it but it's a very important part Of future planning, so if we go to priority number, I call it 1a because I split Port Street off into two areas, and really why I did that is Short Street's a pretty long street for one thing, it's also an extremely poor condition. The part that I'm looking at required in 1a, the territory to Main Street, and that area has two inch galvanized farmland, which is extremely undersized in poor condition, and I think a lot of galvanized water lines were a thing, but they're in the lush communities and Frankly my goal to the day I retire, which I guess looks at it, I should be soon, but it probably won't be, is to get rid of them in all the communities I work in because they just save a lot of water quality, they're low pressure, they don't have the ability to supply any kind of development, so I'd like to see them vouch. And then there's another size on that road also six-inch leaking clay sewer that should be aided PVC. The drainage I evaluated that myself painstakingly and that's extremely undersized on that street. And the roadway itself is in extremely poor condition. So that was sort of how 1A also has grant money for design as we leave the townhouse at in Hainan, so that's another reason why it's part of the 1a because they have to have money to design it which will help get a grant, so if something's ready to go and much less, you know, likely to get it to help the town get grants, so priority 1b which is still on the board street and that's Maine the spring, that one also has a six inch past iron water line and that should be eight-inch ducto. There is also leaking six-inch plate sewer on that street. I won't go into the ad nauseum. That road did have a pretty good overlay on that, but once you dig up the cold road and mix the drainage, water, and sewer, unfortunately, the road would have to be redone again because there's not going to be much left of it. So that's kind of the first priority, and if funding were allowed, maybe those two could be done together. But that was number one in what we found, based on what we found. Party number two, Perkins Street, Macklewondo Road to Main Street. That area, also, we could try to get Derrick and the town to get. That area has some pretty significant issues with the water line. The sewer has some bad locations in it. Drainage is for that support systems that will grow in for condition walls and sidewalks that really need to be addressed. So that was one that we saw as priority number two, and where we've already applied for grants. We felt like that's one that we might have a better chance of getting a grant. Sometimes you don't get the first time, but you should very often. So that's why that was is pretty high priority. Three was, and again, this has a two-inch galvanized water line, and to us, the two-inch galvanized water lines are pretty key, and you know, we've been doing these jobs. I think that the town has changed from just doing sewer off street water running on the street to try to combine all the infrastructure and rip the drift of the street up once instead of go back to it several years later. Again, that area came to the pretty high in the top of the student due to the too much water line and some of the other problems, and this is pretty monotonous, but I didn't kind of want to go through so you can see above the minute. So that area again has to which validates water again. That should be eight inch. We have done a water model so that we were able to determine, but very often in a community this size, the water length that you're in, that's the minimum for fire flow, and also big enough for just about anything you could fit into this community, just to make sure everyone is very much the same. In this area, we thought it would be a benefit from pipe drainage instead of the open drainage system. And this road actually had a pretty deep base, so it would just need to be paved through sewer on the street. It was in very good shape, so we knew it would be a need to do that. Water Street, a portion of this was done with the Main Street project. This is the area that started kind of where the retaining wall is. Sort of near the beginning of the street, and I say that it should be done at the same time as Dyer Lane because it's been really in problems that should be addressed at both of them at the same time. Sometimes it's hard to fix one area rather than another area. So that was kind of why I was saying that. And the water main is always orange cast iron or discreet in that area. And that should be made into a coat. And the drain lines between Weems Street and Dyer are both under sized. And the retaining wall, we've been on screening over the years for the town. it just kind of seems to move back and forth but it is you know a pretty concerning looking wall and we have done some work years ago on looking at what could be done to change that out there's really no way to rebuild that road it just seems to fall there so i felt like you know my feelings is you know whether or not it's on town property it does seem to hold the road up and that should be part of the road rebuilding the road so that's kind of my opinion and that's not my decision and again That area on Prairie Six Dire Lane again, this past current one with better size drainage, not large enough, and leaky PVC piping. So pretty much the same story on a lot of these. In 37, Water Street, kind of going all the way to the end of Spring Street. This is one that's kind of down on the list. It's generally in very good condition. There's some drainage that needs to be addressed in that area. Again, it's full-cast, and also in that area this main line sewer is in very good shape, but services are in poor shape, so services need to be addressed. Are you trying to find your spot? Good, all right. So priority eight, Pleasant Street, this area is in pretty good shape. The drainage, however, is undersized, should be upgraded in the future, and waterline again is six inch cast back in the day. Fire systems, we know the colors have changed, and now you asked us to put a fire hydrant on the 6th and 9th. The lead line to a fire hydrant would be the 8th and 9th system, but the main line of the street didn't catch. That's why nowadays the minimum size of the W-242 is 8-inch, so that we can put a fire hydrant on the street. Home source is going to be on Pleasant Street. state street priority that road was in poor condition the town did overlay it to improve it there's open ditch drainage along that stretch of road should really just be updated not focused drainage we didn't see the need for that again that has a six inch gas wire line pretty much everywhere and it should be increased to eight into the future and the main line sewer is in very good shape however we did find there that got moved lower onto the part in this than in the past just to the overlay And some of the other rows that were in poor conditions on State Street, and also the too much galvanized bottom lines that exist in the town system. We're getting there, party number 10 Harry Street, that area's in pretty good condition, and really the biggest issue there is the drainage undersized and the water should be updated. So that's kind of where that is. And then the last priority that we found, this is really good to the pension to this, I know this many needs in the community, but we're just looking at three school for the first time, just to be clear. We wanted to allow that to be in other areas. School Street, we had a, there was a small, and it didn't end up paying for this, but we did dig into that work, that there is some drainage issues around the School Street area, and there are pretty easy low-cost improvements that can be done there, even though it's at the end of the prairie or city town to get a small grant, or have some leftover money for something, it might be one that's easy to get to so that kind of ended up on your 30 11. And then at the end I put a table of all the priorities and their estimated costs. Nothing's cheap, nothing's very expensive, every project is staggering, the total amount of cost. It's not going to be what nobody wants to have the whole town dug up, but it's a lot of money, you know, to come up with these new ways to do this, like we've got with the C-Street concept. So there's a map that I can't get out, I know you're familiar with the community, also that I am not sure. But the map just kind of numbers priorities, each one of the priorities that would be the success to be done in those particular, you know, answer any questions that you might have, and really just try to provide information and explain how we came up with the list and the priorities. Court Street always seems to come to the top. It is sort of the center of the community. You know, one has the town office. It does have some significant issues under the table. Even though when you drive by it, 's quite beautiful. It's not happy underneath the table. [29:04] Derrick Goodine, Town Manager: So you did this in 2009? [29:07] Chair/presiding officer: The original study, yeah. [29:08] Derrick Goodine, Town Manager: So how much has things deteriorated, like, between 2009 and today? [29:14] Chair/presiding officer: Well, a lot of things deteriorate pretty quickly. Unfortunately in Maine, with all the freeze and thaw and settlement, quite a bit, water lines are just getting worse, especially Galvanized. I think Action Passage has been pretty lucky with the low amount of breaks we've had, but they always happen at the worst time of the year. Something's going on, stuff is jammed, everything deteriorates. of the time it's hard to say how much this is on the ground and we didn't video everything you know [29:54] Derrick Goodine, Town Manager: and how many how many water main breaks were there last year i think they were 15 [30:01] Chair/presiding officer: something like that yeah i think adam gave that information to that doesn't speak to my efforts to receive that enough but they could be they could range from just a service that could be a service line great that you know on our end is we would you know there's private breaks too but like the service line between the main and the first stop it could be just like a two inch main and i know on the private line there have been quite a few issues on us that we do have to help to make sure it gets fixed properly so there's some of that going on yes i've always wondered when you do purpose or you care that how do you deal with it we have to take some property that belongs in the town. Can we widen that road at all? I mean, I think at this point, we haven't done the design work. So once we pick the next project moving, certainly there's gonna be public meetings and participation, and we'll have to make the roads safe and access safe for people, so whatever it takes. But I don't think our intent, like our intent as a company is to take land for property owners however our intent is to companies to make sure the townhouse is right and they're working on a huge project there's been over the years many plantings and shrubs and other things put right in right away such that the project can't happen unless that's relocated but the town committed to the property owners they would help relocate it so that work can be done and that's done very well we just had to Communicate what was going to happen. I don't imagine it's going to go easy. I'm not naive, definitely not, but specifics at this point we don't have that for any particular area. Is that not? Yeah, I mean, generally speaking, because when you're doing water type repairs and structures, construction like that, you want to try to get the whole army done. If you go to department pressure to inch, it's likely problematic. It's also not effective to break it into too small to be clear, because there's so much Upfront cost of these projects, not only there's the cost of the engineering, but the construction, bonding, and their contract paid to just be on site, and all those costs that get made even bigger if you have too many small projects. So I tried to, if I'm understanding your question in a right way. Well, I'm concerned about the kind of supply, basically, well, let's kind of account for that. Yeah, I don't- [33:34] Derrick Goodine, Town Manager: And do I look so proportionate? [33:36] Chair/presiding officer: No, I understand what you're saying, and that's why I broke Port Street into two areas. And if they are rather large and maybe the main to spring could be broken into smaller pieces, we didn't really look at that yet. We haven't been asked to do that at all. I really just try to come up with project sizes similar to what we've done in the past. You know, I don't know the exact numbers, but I took a quick look at the town's Townwide payments for infrastructure along with the water infrastructure. They have a lot of debt coming, freeing up, freeing up. So I feel that it's a good time to talk about this because there's debt freeing up and they've done a very good job of planning that. That's not the same way in every committee. The way they plan debt service payoffs here is really pretty remarkable, so there's some pretty hefty ability to support another project, and I think that's why the town wanted to have us meeting tonight, so everybody would know that they're kind of starting to look at what is the next project, and you know how that all fits into the game, and I haven't done that. I just got those numbers today, but I was really surprised to see [34:51] Derrick Goodine, Town Manager: How much money was going on? Derek, do you know when is that dead service? It's like 12 [34:57] Chair/presiding officer: So some go out to homes 35 and some will retire this year, but don't forget, these are interesting because you have water and sewer on both and sewers on the left side for debt to be retiring. It's a longer window and probably a bigger need in some places, but the water has some in significant debt. The biggest one that's going to come to is next year will be Main Street, of course, Main Street. I believe Karen's idea to correct me, so for now which you can correct them later, but there's 360,000 manual debt service, and I think that's paid all the taxes because of people voted upon that out Main Street, so that included sewer water, so that will be another question we have to talk about. Could we wrap that still in the sewer and water, or should water and sewer upgrades only be dependent on the state? So that's one of the bigger challenges coming out of this meeting as we explained the 30 billion dollars worth of needs of how do we get there, how do we pay for those. Yeah, and I looked at what you looked at too, and it looks like on the water side, about 123,000 is going to be available as of 2027. So that to come off with the books at that time, so that's a pretty hefty, that'll support a pretty hefty water project, and on the sewer, the plant upgrade, actually the payment on that is $390,000, and that is going to be freed up in 2027. That's just coming around the corner. I mean this won't be ready to go anywhere in that time frame, and you know when Derrick's Bronco Main Street is already going to be making its last payment in 2027, so I think casting is in a good position to go to the next time. Yeah, and listen you talked about thread adding the ladder system where you put more different grows and drops down, you said that how big is the water making Battle Avenue where the water originates down the Main Street Battle Avenue, it was six inch house, excuse me, I was thinking State Street, it's about 12, I think it's 12 inch. Yeah, we have very sizable, it was yeah on Main Street, I believe it's 12 as well. I just don't trust my memory, and Main Street is 12 inch. Now that was all based on our water model to make sure that it planned in the future, and we also all these other sizes are from that same model to maximize what you can do involves, I mean, the elevation of the reservoir is set at limits a little bit the pressure that you get in certain areas of the Community especially along on Babel Avenue, where it's, you know, kind of a higher area of the press force here to there elevation wise, so you can only upsize pipes so much. After a certain size, it doesn't, you don't get anything out there. It's not worth the money it costs and the steel watering together by doing that, so we have to be careful. I was just trying to point that really it's Court speaking, you can increase the size of the Court Street. Yeah, it says I said we haven't got to worry about problems with Water Street, because that's what we thought about Green Street, that dire lane, and Water Street. So you've got those two channels, you're going to water it down. Right. And really, it's good for Water Street. If you increase that market, you're going to have so much more water. Correct. Water Street's a very important one, and that's part of the reason why that's happening. And then on a deeper basis, if any has a water reuse problem, like Spring Street, that involves... Yes, we in Spring Street probably 30 of the water, this is the my estimate off the top of my own memory here for me, that is that is your cleanest well. If we pump all the water in there, good clean water source, but it dries up in the drought. It's not all sound like that, but we have to rely on resources more heavily, and Spring Street is also the least expensive to operate. The treatment isn't as elaborate there as it is in some of the other areas, you know, the blue surface water system that the town invested in has been just wonderful to have. I mean, that is really works very well. It probably is able to produce more water than is needed, especially in rain. However dry you have seasons like we've seen lately, I wouldn't say that, you know, we probably still have maybe 30 40 more we can pop out of there, but not 50. But if we had more rain like it used to, we could probably get double capacity. We have to really decide to pull another train and carpenters in, but haven't really needed it. Wouldn't be that expensive to do that, but if you don't, you know, just throw it 's not going to do you anything. And I think we've got a question here. Can you explain, how does the fire hydrant structure fit into any of these individual proposals? Would they be impacted by these maintenance projects, or would they be separate? And are they included in the pricing, that part of it, so if they needed maintenance or were impacted by it, right, so all these streets where the water line needs to be updated, the hydrants need to be updated, so the water line cost includes the main line in the road, the service to the water line, so we'd be replacing all the way to the right. Thank you. Yes, I'm curious, it's down the list because we've had so much delusion problem along Water Street between Dire and Spring, along there where in the Spring in 2024 we saw a lot of the road get damaged, and now we're focusing on blocks. When you plan for a road rebuild, is that, does that incorporate the idea of, I think it would happen, things like that, I think it would happening that close to this water, I think it would have to include some work along that area. [42:16] Derrick Goodine, Town Manager: I'm not sure how that would all happen. We haven't done it. We got the engineers to report a couple weeks ago, there was paper by FEMA, yeah, so there's a whole engineering report of how they're to support below Water Street, and Derek maybe you can explain it doesn't include anything in the actual road. No, I know that, but it supports that you're dealing with your, it doesn't do it with the road, but if the fact that we're, we're supporting down below, it'll, it'll, it'll, it'll [42:53] Chair/presiding officer: slow down any erosion. Exactly, yeah, so the whole idea is there's two different phases. I'm actually meeting in Denver FEMA next week to discuss the design plans, both of Fort Madison Water Street, which are 85 done, and so the bottom part is actually where FEMA allowed us to do. I am in the upper part, it needs to be done at the same time and do a credo rattle, not be this credo rattle plan. Because the way the thing did not be considerably over the years is helping to put pressure on the data. So, helping to push, like for instance, a couple of screw streams down there, recently as we had actually on Water. So, this right here will actually be a phase where it'll be rip-wrapped, and then from where that rip-wrap is it will actually slope back and widen out those slopes of that guy where we put that in there, so like that would happen separately. Yes, it's painful with female, but we'll find out, but they're not cheap projects themselves. I would say it's about three to three point two million. Folks might thought that it might be able to follow that better, we would get the pets paid for 75 percent of that. You might want to do it now rather than, you know, later pay for it. Well, we did that. We would have to have our shares would end up having to be in August. So whether they're ready to go in May or not, that could be a possibility, but I'm feeling that would be in the winter. So sorry about that. Any other questions? I have a question. I won't say that ground needs to be pipe free. Does that mean bigger diameter pipes on the road, or does that mean more catch faces? Oh, most times in some areas where it's open, the open ditch is fine and suitable for those areas, and then we have to be dug out and properly, you know, protected from erosion a little bit better than it's done now. In some places there's no condition it should be closed drainage which leads piped and would require patch bases to get it into. So probably, yeah, you don't mention anything about the treatment plant or pump stations or any. Well, the C Street pump station is discussed, but it's not in that table because it's kind of done separately. The C Street pump station is definitely our biggest part of this. It's going to happen before any of this. It's going to be in the video world, hopefully in January, so we can get numbers for it. And the plants in general are in condition. The free plant is upgraded maybe now 15 years ago, but it's, you know, obviously the tree plant is going to come back again. And maybe things that happen there that are taking care of the budget and stuff like that, but, you know, so we basically limited this to kind of the building in general. I have one more. Okay. The whole roadway reconstruction is taking up the roadbed. Yes. Like those areas usually, you know, usually dimensions underneath the roadway. Some areas we have that, in some areas there's just nothing really much wrong. It's not enough. I've been told Park Street has like five different layers of like gravel and there's actually pavement we just went over what was there, so that gave it a spring that it needed so it didn't turn into a, it doesn't make sense to do overlays in the communities that have a lot of interest even though in the future, you know, you're Going to be digging it up, it don't last. Yes, yeah, there are areas where lowering the road would be beneficial, sure, for sure. We've done that several different places, and it is sometimes over time the road keeps getting up higher due to these overlays. Yeah, I mean, I've seen it happen such that the road holds here in silence communities, if you can believe it, there's no more curve left. So it's very common that has to be done, and that takes a lot of figuring out because you don't want to lower somebody who's there like too steep of a driveway or something else, so when [48:17] Derrick Goodine, Town Manager: we choose to do a project, so let's say we do priority A, lot from the time that we say we want to do this, how long does it generally take to do the bid, you know, get the contractors lined up? So as we begin to plan these, I mean, you know, we've got a lot of moving parts here, we've got that service coming off, we've got priorities of projects. Yeah, so what's the, is there a normal timeline that we could, we could think about? Well, it varies, it depends on [48:48] Chair/presiding officer: how big the projects, generally speaking, you know, once there's a contract and the engineer knows they need to go and design it, I mean, you're talking before that, from like when we say [48:59] Derrick Goodine, Town Manager: we want to fix this, yeah, and we go out to bid, and we, you know, like how long from the moment that [49:07] Chair/presiding officer: we kind of want it to be completed? Yeah, sometimes two or three years. Okay, yeah, I mean, it's very, well, it depends how complex the project is, if there have been any controversial projects, right, and how many meetings it needs on that is a huge factor, but it takes time, and I think in the asking it does take time. I don't think that's always bad because in the end, you know, you want to end up with, it could take two or three years. And can I add into that? So when you look at like Port Street, Western Port Street, which we're going to engineer with something, my idea behind that is to apply for an MBRC grant, which is the global board of regional commission, which is a special program for Maine, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, I think New York, so they created some of those states allowed full three million dollar projects, at least that's how much greenery they're going to give me, this decided I'm going to give a million, we've applied for Western Field Exchange twice, failed Perkins once, the reason we're losing is from my talking people. It's not tied to work, not anything tied really to economic development, to the college or the academy, Main Street and everything else. But I think there's a perfect storm coming that I've seen some housing projects get done. And with the new fire station, actually our local housing and our regional housing group tried to identify possible places to build apartments. [Derrick Goodine: The old fires] very well be sold into that grant for reuse workforce housing to support our economy locally and I think that they give us the points to finally get a million dollars from that program to actually do that. It's another reason that probably will be 2028 or sometime every morning get that ready to go loaded sort of shell already so that will give us extra points too and say hey river I had to hear this it's ready to go we need housing here's a report that we have that says it I'm hoping that will get us across the finish line to be successful and it builds in perfectly when we start retiring debt and my expectation is any debt that we're recovering we'll be putting those debt service principal and interest agents into reserves for water and stewards so that we're saving up a couple costs on those projects and also when we do have to bomb them we'll have all our portion of the debt service already figured into the ratings because I was asking at least if I wanted to do all these at once with one big bond she said that will never happen there because when we go up on water rates we have to do a PVC rate case and God's like I'm to say yeah we'll let you double your raises if it's all done now or probably zero. Yeah well besides we've run out of time and I think we're here to get run out of time [52:40] Derrick Goodine, Town Manager: no but I think what's critical is that we know we have these bond payments that are going to be retiring. Yeah the reason I asked the question is how long it takes so if we begin planning some of these projects now we're not spending any money we're like saying okay we will attempt to do this in two years we'll do this in three years and we can we can organize it so that as the debt services get retired that money just goes into the next project so it's a way of minimizing any tax increases so we really wanted to have this meeting tonight to kind of set the stage for what may happen we don't we have to we haven't made any decisions yet we have to look really carefully at the timing of the debt service. We have to look carefully at what these projects are going to cost. We have to look at what the debt service would be on the new projects. So there's a lot of moving parts, but I think it's really important that we have these discussions and this information so that when we do it, when we do make decisions, people know why we did it and when we did it. When we're doing it and why we're doing it. Anything [53:52] Chair/presiding officer: else? We replaced the C Street station. Yes. Can you tell everybody where the C Street station comes to? Is that one line back to the sewer plant? Or is it up Main Street to 4th Street? I think it comes up on to I can get back to you right now. That's another reason why the 4th Street well that see yeah that's another thing but the new so many reasons is it is it's got a atrocious drainage you know I know it's it's the one side of it towards the side between Territory and Main Street is absolutely the worst yeah incredible fire station but certainly makes sense but yes you're right but I can't honestly remember exactly where that person knows, I can get back to you right away. It happens, you can't remember everything anymore. So much information, it gets plugged into there when you deal with all these different communities. So you can't keep it straight anymore. I have it, I just can't remember. Anything else anybody? You know, infrastructure's not really that exciting. I told somebody, this is kind of a really boring presentation. I don't know what I could do to make it be interesting. Make it cheaper. Make it cheaper? I don't make the mice do the estimating. I don't decide what the product is going to charge. [55:40] Derrick Goodine, Town Manager: Thank you so much. Thank you, Adam.