China emergency services committee finalizes recommendations for select board

[8:21] Paul Cromer, Consultant: So good evening. We'll go ahead and start with the Pledge of Allegiance. Pledge [8:28] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: of Allegiance. Two flags of the United States of America to the Republic for its name. One name. I'm going to go ahead and start with the Pledge of Allegiance. [8:44] Paul Cromer, Consultant: The Pledge of Allegiance for the Reforming and Attendance. Paul Cromer, Consultant. [8:49] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: Blaine Casey, Select Board Member here for the advisory. [8:54] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: Paul Cromer. Ed Bales, Select Board Member, also with an advisory. [9:29] Paul Cromer, Consultant: assessment committee is established from a comprehensive objective evaluation of the town's fire and ambulance services to be able to determine whether the existing volunteer model continues to provide highest level of public safety or whether transitioning to a municipal or hybrid structure will improve the quality of service, operational resilience, and long-term sustainability. On that, the minutes and the recommendations went out, and before we quite dive into that, I think we had a good meeting at our last one for those that were here, and I also just want to actually commend everybody. I've been involved in a lot of community-based meetings like this, so just everybody pitching in, being able to have good dialogue, and just to explore issues, and chiefs, thank you for the tours of your station and letting people have a better understanding of the operation. Ultimately, not every committee that I've been part of was able to have these kind of conversations. Would be welcome in some places, believe me, a lot. So I was walking around. Everybody, for your time and participation in this, from my perspective as the outsider coming into your community, so thank you for that opportunity as well. All right, with that, hopefully everybody had a chance to read these. This is from our last meeting. There was six recommendations that the committee felt should kind of be finalized into a document to go before the select board, and this sheet is what is representing that. The goal of this committee when they set out was to be more consensus based, so it's not a vote, but a thing consensus based on if somebody has an issue with these, that would be hashed out and talk about it, to just confirm that this is indeed what the consensus of the group is. This meeting really was intent that we'll kind of walk through these six, make sure this is indeed kind of the will and direction of the committee, and then we are scheduled for October 19th to come up, and I'll walk through these with the select board on Behalf of the committee kind of give a little bit of the background to let them take whatever next action that they would like to take or anybody. [11:45] Speaker D (unidentified): Have any questions can there be seven can there be seven recommendations can there be seven. If I may have the floor for 60 seconds, I would like to recommend that Ben Lubier be designated as the appointed chief of the new municipal China Rescue Service. If there is required to be a vote or some other method of appointing a chief that be put off at least for one calendar year. Ben's been chief in China for the year next month is that right. Yeah, the service has been in existence since 1982. I think we owe it to the people of China to have somebody in place going into place who has a feel for the community for the members of you know EMS capabilities in the area that could help us out getting started and down the road. [13:03] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: That would be my number seven. [13:05] Speaker E (unidentified): I didn't even think that would be an issue so I appreciate that you brought that up because I would second that recommendation. Never even crossed my mind that might be an issue and I. [13:16] Speaker D (unidentified): Okayed this with Mr. Louis before I brought this up. I didn't want to suffer that wrath of his wife either. [13:27] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: So we've got for a year who we have for one year in one year Ben is already the. [13:31] Speaker F (unidentified): Chief he's been appointed the chief yes and he's already the chief so yeah that's redundant. [13:37] Speaker D (unidentified): I don't know if it's redundant if we change it to a municipal service, though. I just wanted to make sure that there was some kind of continuance of service and knowledge for the rescue service. [13:52] Speaker E (unidentified): If it's required, I would definitely second that recommendation. [13:56] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I don't know if it's a requirement or not. [13:57] Speaker D (unidentified): There's been no comment from Mr. Fromman. [13:59] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I'm, I'm honestly thinking I'm not I'm thinking of like HR, employee transition, kind of cart before the horse thing here. [14:13] Speaker D (unidentified): As I said, it can be a recommendation. [Speaker G (unidentified): If there are.] Some other bylaws, and I'm not familiar with it. [14:20] Speaker F (unidentified): Well, it might be a recommendation whether or not they're great. Well, that's true. [14:24] Speaker G (unidentified): I would imagine and hope and this is just my thought process on it is when it comes in changes from what the service is now to municipal and becomes under the town that the town would have or hold some kind of a process to appoint whomever it is I would imagine they would have to do that as it would be an employee the town or whatever right my that sounds kind of how that goes, I would assume. Yeah. It seems like that would be the logical step. [14:59] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: Only because once it's realized that it is an employee, I mean, and you obviously are the most qualified being the chief now, but I would only recommend that you stay on, but that's it. [15:12] Speaker F (unidentified): Isn't that basically a Becky decision? She even would be just a lot for one person. [15:18] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I think that's kind of the thinking four steps ahead of where you're at because the first step is to make the recommendation of the supplies and then there has to be three more steps before you get to that point of display so it's kind of where these are very focused on where they like emergent the needs are right now and it's kind of all these things are about a starting point not an ending point and so by all means part of the continuation of this is the town could say you know we want the Committee to meet occasionally and still have an input and to say as like if the town decides to miss surprise the question is going to become what does that look like and then that has to be built out and then you have to take it to your citizens to vote and so there are several kind of steps along the way gotta be clear I was just [16:07] Speaker D (unidentified): Hoping to maximize the potential for success yes of the change over to a municipal system and if we're doing all these other changes paying people the different chief that I don't know just seems like there's a lot of balls in the proverbial air if you will I just like more [16:33] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: Number and the more that we have right now, I think that would be, we would look to somebody that's probably been there with the experience, familiar with the people. I mean, that may change in three years if it takes three years to process this. We may decide we don't want to do that. [16:53] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: And the reality of it is we don't know. I mean, the voters might not want it to be municipal right it might be voted right down anyways right well and part of that [17:03] Paul Cromer, Consultant: Transition is the fact that right now even if the town decides to municipal you're separate correct so you can still say we're going to exist right we're not going to like they could because the chief of the association saying cool you guys can municipal I'm out now ideally once you start having those conversations it's going to be select board Becky working with the chief so ideally it's going to be it already and what I would imagine it would be and should be would be the integration of how do we work together to make this happen and part of that would be the point of that yeah in a perfect world in a perfect world yes so i would generally i guess recommend that kind of recommendation at this exact point but then i think as this progresses i think that's the value of a where you were sworn into your positions and then nothing else show up to the psych board meeting and say that exact thing that i was here i was part of this is what my opinion is i really wanted a number seven There it is, not my recommendations. So this is the power I don't have, a fact we're not voting on this, but if the consensus of this group is to say they want to make sure that the chief is the chief whenever. [18:15] Speaker E (unidentified): If this happens it can be added, all right, that's lost to be a number seven, but I think if number two, China Rescue should transition to a municipal department and the town should explore a transition sort of paid staffing model over time. Should the town decide to move forward with this, our committee recommendation is to continue for continuity to achieve the minimum of one year to ensure success. I think it can be added right to number two. Should the town choose to move forward with this recommendation, our committee recommendation is to. [18:53] Paul Cromer, Consultant: Maintain current chief. So my devil's advocate is always like a policy, those people who written policies, you never put a person's name in a policy, right now and it's kind of the same thing is regardless if even if he right what the intent is, if they say no, does the town still, should they still move towards municipal regardless if he at the end says no, I don't want to be the chief, right, that's kind of where it's. [19:18] Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah, but you can say maintain leadership, I don't think. [19:22] Speaker F (unidentified): Our job is to make personnel decisions all the time and that's where I'm at, I guess. [19:30] Speaker E (unidentified): But it's in the best interest of the staff. [19:32] Speaker F (unidentified): I don't think we should make a recommendation that it becomes a personnel issue for the town, that doesn't make sense to me. [19:40] Paul Cromer, Consultant: That's kind of the gray area that it becomes and it puts a name on it. [19:44] Speaker E (unidentified): All right, let's go, let's let us invite me daily. [19:50] Speaker H (unidentified): If I may, I just have two things. My thoughts were that we thought we kind of talked about that I didn't see end up in it. The first one was the, were we going to recommend having either two or three year re-evaluation of what's going on through the services. I think that could be a beneficial, maybe if it's like a couple of meetings every two years with the committee just to see if the progression is good, if we're going in a good direction or something, we need to recommend something different. I think that was something I was looking at. Then the only other one was I hate to kind of put a timeline on getting, seeing if we can get permit up to the pandemic level or at least get to the interim transporting license with everything [20:52] Speaker G (unidentified): going unknown. Well that'll be a service specific thing. Yeah, regardless of if we go to municipal or [20:59] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: not, right, and I don't think we wanted to go there. That's over here at the time, okay, but not those [21:04] Paul Cromer, Consultant: are my two comments. Yeah, I think our final decision on that was we didn't want to make that recommendation at this point in time. So I guess there's two there. Let's start with one. Yeah, and like you're thinking at least an annual. Yeah, an annual of this, of this committee, or what, who do you want to be the annual review? I think if everyone here is still here, I think the same [21:27] Speaker H (unidentified): in committee, because we started it and it'd be nice to kind of continue seeing what happens [21:33] Paul Cromer, Consultant: when it becomes municipal. We get paid, right? Well, I think part of the volunteer side of the, it's, it's of a committee member, I don't think they have you for that. Does the blackboard get stipend? [21:45] Speaker F (unidentified): We're not, we're not, I'd like, I'd like to see an endpoint to a committee. I mean, it is, this could become a never ending process. And I just think it needs to be a never ending [22:00] Speaker E (unidentified): problem. It should be a never ending process because the community is going to continue to change. It's going to continue to grow, there's going to be additional businesses. Right, the [22:10] Speaker H (unidentified): needs are going to change us. That's my biggest. Yeah, it should, it shouldn't have [22:16] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: the whole, a lot of the idea of this committee was to bring up ideas and look towards the future a little, future to the end. I mean, I don't see, I don't see a problem myself with, you know, the committee and if somebody chooses not to be on the committee, that's going forward, so be it. But I don't have, I don't see anything wrong with the committee moving forward and at least having a, at least a once a year. [22:42] Speaker E (unidentified): And basically that once a year would be an annual statistic review. How many calls were there? How many responses were there? Were there any gaps? That's all, that's all that. It's kind of progress. [22:51] Speaker D (unidentified): Right, don't think it's going to fake as many students. I think we kind of know what we're looking for and what we need to think about and talk about, right? I think it could be a much more abbreviated, right, process. Call me crazy, but yeah. Well, I think there's some real value to keeping [23:11] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: keeping the committee alive. Say, such as what do you want to call it? And like I said, if somebody doesn't want to be on the committee going forward, so be it. But you know, it's who knows what's going to happen a year from now. If we have a meeting a year from now and boy, things are, we haven't been able to mobilize and things are even getting worse and maybe something else happens in the community, not a bad idea to talk about it. Yeah, I, that's my feeling on that. 's my feeling. [23:40] Speaker F (unidentified): Well, if that happens, can't the Select Board decide they want to have a new committee to look at? [23:45] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: Well, we could, but why would we want to just have a new committee? [23:47] Speaker F (unidentified): I just, I don't know, I just, I don't know, this could be endless. It really could, and I don't think it needs to be. [23:54] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: Well, I mean, again, like I said, I mean, I don't mean any disrespect, but if you don't want to be on it, then all you do is say, I don't want to. [23:59] Speaker F (unidentified): Okay. And then you're going to sit here and talk about my department's future, and I'm not on the committee. [24:04] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: Well, somebody from your department's future. [24:06] Speaker F (unidentified): No, it's not the case. [24:07] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: But that's up to you, Dick. That's my opinion. That's just my opinion only. If anybody else doesn't have the same opinion, then so be it. But that's my opinion. I mean, you know, if the committee goes on for five years and meets once a year, I don't know that 's that intrusive on anybody's life. But if it is, then so be it. [24:25] Speaker F (unidentified): Well, couldn't it be that we submit our report, the board decides whether they want it to continue in any form or not? [24:35] Speaker E (unidentified): Oh, that's, that's how it should be anyway. They may say, hey, this was useful too for us, and they say [24:42] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: Yeah, very good point, yep. But right, and if you're making a recommendation and it's up to the board to say yes, if you're making a recommendation to keep the board, that committee alive with a one-year, you know, review, then it's up to the board to say, okay, yes, or well, we don't need that. That's how I'm looking at it. It seems like there's a lot of value to if there is going to be another, if there is ever going to be another meeting in a year or whatever, to bring into the, you know, the people that have already talked about it. And maybe you can bring in somebody else too, but at least the same people that have already talked about it, my thought. [25:43] Speaker E (unidentified): and know the foundation of what these recommendations were built up from right so [25:49] Paul Cromer, Consultant: It does make sense to if people are willing and all the committee can have them continue in that role, essentially moving it from a temporary committee out of a standing committee, but one that doesn't need to meet every month like other town meetings, I guess, from the chief perspective, since they're kind of on the appointment from the association, someone from the association to be in that role, even if the chief doesn't want to be. [26:19] Speaker D (unidentified): Number six. Don't you firmly mean to obtain a quote for staging an ambulance in the China area? In my very brief conversation with Chris Mitchell a few weeks ago, [26:35] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: He, how do I say this? [26:37] Speaker D (unidentified): I think we could say to ascertain the possibility of staging an ambulance. Is I'm not sure that I don't want to automatically assume that they can stage an ambulance. [26:51] Paul Cromer, Consultant: Well, I don't think it assumes that they will. [26:58] Speaker D (unidentified): Okay. Am I worried too much about it? [27:01] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I mean, the wording used to change more than I did, but it's just, well, the question of whether it lasts because of the cost, if during the day you had an ambulance in town, it goes uncalled, but what was the cost? I believe that was the intent. If it's not, then I'll update it, but I don't have it here. [27:21] Speaker E (unidentified): And they're currently, I think, renting the space in Augusta. They're paying to have that space. And what would it take to have that space transition to a China location that they work from to respond to other communities? And will it cost anything if we supply a location? You might get a new firehouse. [27:41] Speaker H (unidentified): So my only look on that one was the so we're asking in the so it's for the China area as a group, not like just committed to China. Okay, so I was just thinking the price might be different if we ask them for just China. [28:00] Paul Cromer, Consultant: Part of the conversation ended up being that if you said we want it exclusively, the cost is going to be high. If you said, hey, you can kind of be here in the middle of your area. Right. Yeah, you know, it'll increase but now finding out [28:12] Speaker E (unidentified): That's the spot. That's the rescue response to most of the Augusta calls, right? So there'll be even Augusta base and going [28:18] Speaker G (unidentified): Yeah, I guess the fire covers everything in the city. Right. But they also cover all, well, Chelsea. Yeah. Yeah. And then whatever mutually need to go to if one's needed. So you taught me Augusta Delta. Yeah. Oh, I thought you meant, I mean, they cover up generally to the crossroad, right, and everything north of the crossroad they come out of Waterville, right. Yeah, but yeah, they've got Cooper's Mills, Windsor, China, half of China, half of Basselboro, Jefferson, Whitefield, a lot of [29:00] Speaker E (unidentified): of that reasons. Yeah. [29:02] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: Here, the area. Yeah. Do they actually go? They do go the other direction. Also, you feel they have found that they're contracted to go or they just do [29:14] Speaker E (unidentified): mutually. Now they're contracted with some of those other [29:17] Speaker H (unidentified): Belgrade, Sydney. Okay. [29:21] Speaker F (unidentified): Smithfield. Yeah. Brown. Yeah. [29:25] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: Yeah. AMX transport, for Manchester also. [29:30] Speaker G (unidentified): Winthrop does, Winthrop's got an annual service, yeah. [29:37] Paul Cromer, Consultant: All right, we'll bounce around a little bit. Do you have something? Another number. Another number? Okay. Well, I was going to actually start with one. I know. We want to go to five? [29:52] Speaker H (unidentified): Go back to the Pacific. [29:54] Speaker E (unidentified): Keep us in track. I don't know, I'm trying, you got your, you got the gavel there, we are collegiate, but we get off track [30:01] Paul Cromer, Consultant: fast, that's right, all right, so number one, does anybody have any final thoughts since this wasn't the fire departments remain in their current volunteer association structures, no change, then number two, China rescues should transition to a municipal department, the town should explore for a transition toward the paid staffing model over time. Pretty much what we talked about. The town should utilize a sign in front of the town office for recruiting notifications for emergency services, volunteers, and staff. [30:42] Speaker F (unidentified): I don't think that, I think that will happen anyway, probably, if the mayor wants to put something on there, or really does. I think that could happen anyway, I'm not sure that it's, it's a nice thing to do and it's a good idea, but I'm not sure it should be a formal recommendation for this committee or why it needs to be, we probably [31:04] Paul Cromer, Consultant: doesn't, but it's a result of the only thing for recruitment retention the committee came up with that collectively agreed on is that the town, if nothing else, you're asking the town to give access to all your chiefs to the, to the sign, even though there won't be any problems, I would not think [31:18] Speaker F (unidentified): there'd be any problem ever, we're doing that, we want to, so that's up to you guys, I just think it's [31:24] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: Kind of, I don't see any harm in having it on there. Yeah, I mean, it's just a recommendation or a suggestion. In this case, it's a recommendation. I don't know what we're really putting on there, but [31:37] Paul Cromer, Consultant: That is a very low cost, or an age. Yeah, that doesn't have no cost. No cost recommendations. Number four, the town should proceed regional meetings with neighboring communities regarding coordination of emergency services across the area. [31:52] Speaker F (unidentified): Again, as I said last time, last meeting, our mutual aid is what that amounts to, our mutual aid program. And I don't see why the town needs to get involved in the mutual aid that the fire departments would create. [32:06] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I don't think this is just the fire department. I think this is the global conversation that includes the rescue. And if you're looking at municipalizing and the town next to you is looking at municipalizing, it's a great opportunity to just formally say have a conversation similar to this but on a larger scale so that you can have ideally cost savings or again it's hard to justify a 24-hour ambulance in this community but if you have two communities and you share costs it's possible that could become your ambulance in the long run if why don't we say that let me say that and [32:39] Speaker F (unidentified): Talking to pursue discussions about ambulance, not fire, just EMS. Yeah, because I also know [32:49] Paul Cromer, Consultant: The, there's interest around to have that conversation, and it's just also a lot of other places are also not like you guys, it is attached to fire departments, so you have to, you can't just say we're only interested in talking about this, and all it is having a conversation. They're recommending to the select board to say hey, you should reach out to our neighbors, let's just have a conversation where people at, but not, you're not, you're not asking to [33:15] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: Change anything, you're just, you're having the conversation. You'll never, you'll never know if there's anything that would be beneficial to this town if you don't at least ask the question, you know, I mean. And again, this says China emergency services, not just China rescue, this is John emergency services. We're just, we're just throwing stuff out there. That's all. I mean, it's not a direct attack on anybody. It's just trying to figure out if there's, if, a neighboring town, I would be in favor of it. If a neighboring town wanted to come up, what's it going to hurt top? That's my thought. [33:52] Paul Cromer, Consultant: And I think clearly the first point is that you're not trying to change the fire departments, and you're not trying to say, I don't think the intent is not to talk about interfering with your mutual aid agreements. It's it's truly of the bigger conversation you're going to pay we're buying trucks or buying equipment from, you know, it's just it's just not in the greater conversation. The down should seek to increase the annual contingency fund allocated to fire and EMS capital needs. I was surprised. Not for any good reason, I [34:32] Speaker F (unidentified): guess, because we had sort of talked the number and I sort of expected that we were going to suggest, you know, we had this million dollar figure because again you could spend a fire truck a good part of it right away. So I don't know, I just thought that we were going to again this recommendation suggestion, yeah, but that's, you know, I mean, I thought it was pretty clear from our discussions that it would be easy to go beyond what the contingency fund is at the moment with any, with a variety of expenses that could come along. And if there's a it's an interest clearing account or something, it's not as though it's costing us if we're not using, if we, you know, and the town can figure out how they do it, you know, if the goal is over the next five years to reach a million or whatever it would be, you know, that's like Borden Townspeople, not us. But, yeah. [35:28] Paul Cromer, Consultant: If you wanted them out on there, that's [Speaker F (unidentified): the will.] The will of the group. I know we kind of kept drawing around a million, but no, I didn't really feel like it was a dead set on the, it was kind of a [35:44] Speaker D (unidentified): The number now is what? [35:46] Speaker E (unidentified): 30,000, isn't it? No, it was about, I think it was 200. [35:57] Paul Cromer, Consultant: So they're contributing, I think it was $60,000 they contributed last year or this year to it. [36:08] Speaker D (unidentified): Christopher, are you saying that you'll get to a million or to do a million next year? [36:13] Speaker F (unidentified): No, to work toward a million. Work toward a million. [36:17] Paul Cromer, Consultant: Yeah, so if you do give an amount, then I would probably say you should also make a recommendation for a time ish frame. I mean, again, it's a recommendation the select board does not have to act on it, but it's a it's a recommendation, I [36:31] Speaker F (unidentified): think this is a good idea i brought it up in fact but i got my tax bill and i don't know about anybody else but mine went up five percent and i'm pretty sure the people in town notice that stuff and i think we ought to be real careful about how much about this sort of thing i understand it's important it's necessary and so forth but we got to make sure the people are behind it because it's taxes i mean nothing happened to in town to my house but it went up five percent and i don't know i don't know why for sure, but I saw in the paper about revaluation all that stuff, but taxes in this town are high and they're getting higher. And I think we ought to be, we ought to at least recognize that and try to make recommendations that recognize that sort of thing. I don't know how the hell we put that in there, but I just want to say that. There's a video machine there. [37:31] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: I think it's great, my opinion, I think it's I think it's a very good suggestion to do what they can do, what the select board can to raise, you know, the contingency. I think it'd be really, hard to put any exorbitant number on it. Because, you know, everything is trying to be trying to save money, no matter how you slice it. I'm not saying it's not worth it. I really, I agree with it 100%. But to say, bounce it up to a million dollars over a five year period, I think might be a challenge. I think might be a challenge, but I don't say that it's a bad thing to put on there. I'm myself I'm in agreement with putting it out there. The number well that's [38:21] Speaker F (unidentified): another whole suggestion. I think it's acknowledging from my perspective, it's that we're acknowledging all the costs are going up and the contingency at the moment probably isn't enough to cover a variety of things that could easily come along. But again I'm not attached to it. I just I sort of you know so many of our conversations have that million dollar figure in it. I just sort of thought that's what we were doing as a taxpayer. I find that our town [38:55] Speaker E (unidentified): spends a lot more dollars on things that don't impact our community as much as emergency services does. There's a lot of tax dollars that go out there for BS kind of stuff that not everybody uses, but they still go. This is something that's critical to our community. I mean, I think we should have paid more significantly. I don't know how we go about it, but, and I don't know, I mean, I know people vote on where these tax dollars go, but if we're voting for things that are nature related versus emergency related, I have a hard time battling that. [39:37] Speaker D (unidentified): Typically in the hospital, we used to use one word when we were trying to get [Speaker H (unidentified): money funding,] and that was safety, and a lot of times people will listen to that. [39:50] Speaker F (unidentified): If you try to and show people [39:54] Speaker D (unidentified): this is a safety matter for them to do. [39:58] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: I'll make it clear, the select board doesn't say, okay, we're going to give them $1,000. Right. All we say is, we're going to put it on the power and value. [40:08] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: Right. They don't want to spend the money. [40:12] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: I've got an idea that the town currently probably does want to spend some money. A good percentage of the population or some of them have experienced the delays and what have you. [40:27] Paul Cromer, Consultant: The whole point of raising the contingency is actually to cut future costs and give you, for instance, an emergency fund for emergencies. So if you need to buy apparatus, you need to buy air packs, it's not like you're like, we have $30,000 to use, but you actually have something that you can use to buy trucks. And in theory, the small amount of increase and dedication towards it could waive some costs in the future. If you start transporting and it's municipal, that's money that can go back and offset that as well. We can get to that point, and it becomes a little bit more self-sustaining. Although I do say billing also affects the taxpayer, because when you're billing as taxpayers, you're collecting money from one way or the other. [41:16] Speaker E (unidentified): It's not just about keeping our volunteer instructor safe. Yeah, I think right, don't get [41:21] Speaker F (unidentified): me wrong, I think it's a good idea, but I just want to be, I just want to, because I understand [41:27] Speaker H (unidentified): I agree, I think it'll be also kind of up to the select board, they're the ones who are making the one article, so they're gonna have to figure out what wording they use to capture that money. [41:46] Speaker G (unidentified): I think what drives a lot of the tax bill in this town is the school budget, 75% of the budget. [41:53] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: Yeah, we have control in a very small portion of the budget, the rest of it is all dictated from the county government, the dispatch, school, and a few others, the state of Maine has their fingers in there too. But it's very small. [42:17] Speaker G (unidentified): And this contingency, you know, for the fire and EMS services, it's no different than what the transfer station or, you know, public works, the road crews have in place now. I just think the fire department hasn't been the best at vocalizing to kind of keep up with the need and stuff, too. So obviously, we don't want to go from 30,000 to 250,000 next year. But if we can work that way, I think we're all, this has also changed in the last five to ten years too, because the fire departments have always been able to kind of, I don't want to say be self-sufficient, but, you know, do their fundraising and they're like, did you guys do the auction and everything to kind of help, you know, move the departments along, and we've just gotten to the point now where it's, you know, the economy is just not attainable. So now we've recently transitioned to having a town put Into this fund, and so just trying to play catch-up with anything as well, like Dick said, you know, the, like Joel said, the transfer station, everything, though those farms have kind of always kind of had one around, and this is kind of fairly new for us, so. [43:26] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: Yeah, it's been banished to the town, maybe before I was in there, controlled by the town. Correct. In the fire departments, and that's currently not confirmed. [43:36] Speaker E (unidentified): And have no accountability on the funds that we give them, so that's not true. [43:44] Speaker F (unidentified): Right, if you come for every penny, yeah, through your reports, yeah, do [43:51] Speaker E (unidentified): You want a million dollars? I think a million is going to be a vote down immediately, but do I agree with you? I can't want [43:58] Paul Cromer, Consultant: It, but I have just an increase in annual, well, that's kind of why I honestly, did you not write [44:05] Speaker F (unidentified): I think the way it's written is okay to me, it doesn't, I don't think we need to put a number in there, that's, I don't know, we can if the select board decides to do that or recommend that, then they, yeah, I assume they'd be seeking input from me, that'd be, you know, the million dollar fee, yeah [44:23] Speaker G (unidentified): That would be nice and everything, but like everyone's kind of saying, I'd be hard-pressed to just throw, slap a number on there. I think that's going to have to come in with the select board, the budget committee, and everything recognizing and realizing they've got this recommendation from this committee saying this needs to get bumped up, but how do we [44:40] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: We're supposed to go about doing it, agree, so because they're in the process, correct, like you said, you've got budget committee, you've got, you know, it comes up and then they vote on it. [44:50] Speaker G (unidentified): You know, like what Dick is saying, you know, it being on there, it being a recommendation from this committee that are maybe recognizing a little more that, you know, this does need to get bumped up. But now how do we go to the drawing board and responsibly try and figure out how to [45:05] Paul Cromer, Consultant: do that? Not to say I can volunteer if there's civilian committee members, but when the budget meetings come along and they have those things on what should we prioritize in the town, it's a [45:17] Speaker G (unidentified): great opportunity to say, hey, this responsibility is growing by the minute. That's where, like Joel, we're saying that, you know, the fire departments, rescue departments haven't been so vocal with it. You know, we need to start now showing up to these meetings going, hey, we've got it now on the table. It was recommended from the committee. We're here now to help voice that there is a need, X, Y, Z, try to help move on. You know, it's the best we can do. [45:41] Speaker F (unidentified): I guess I just have to say that I don't see any harm in us putting a number here. The select board and the town are going to decide. Sign, but if the considered judgment of this committee, which has spent several months reviewing everything and countering the numbers involved with emergency services today, then why should we be afraid of suggesting that the goal should be to have this kind of money available? Because that's the real world. Yeah, the town and the select board and the budget committee, they'll all pass through it, but I, you know, they can create the plan [46:19] Paul Cromer, Consultant: but again, go back, we just saw, right, maybe split the difference here would be you start it with the committee recommends that the emergency contingency for fire EMS should be a million dollars. Oh, we did there, and then and then you kind of go to the town should increase the allocation to aim towards getting closer to that goal. [46:48] Speaker F (unidentified): So I think it's appropriate to say something about should work toward getting to that number, not that we're saying next year. [46:59] Paul Cromer, Consultant: Yeah, we've established that between trucks and everything that we need to increase it. This is a number that we think now you should work towards getting it. So kind of it doesn't put them in two years. You need to have a million dollars or great, but it's establishing that [47:15] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: We know when you go now, we need to have a million dollars on hand. Yeah [47:20] Speaker F (unidentified): That could deal with the emergency services. I mean, every not time when we've talked numbers, everyone has said it's only gonna get works. That's true. I mean, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah, if the Guys on the board, if this contingency fund as it sits now, does it make money for the town and they get interest on? I believe yeah, I believe she yeah, so whatever was in there exactly, it would be a certain amount of [47:48] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: interest. Yeah, I'm not paying very much. Yeah, especially did something safe that you know as you're sure and I shot sort of safe places, but yeah, more than just a savings account or a bank account. [48:05] Paul Cromer, Consultant: If you get to that point and you never draw it down, that's where you have a lot of power for an interest rates do go up. You're able to collect that money. So then if you do lose $50,000, you can drop from that. And essentially that's self-sustaining, which means the taxes don't go up. You need to buy a truck, you can loan it or lease it. And then you pull from that. But you know, so you're not like spending it all or kind of that same thing. Spending all kind of yeah, kind of trying to maintain it and that's where kind of that power I mean also like a million dollars in the bank gives you a lot of options if it's dedicated not for everything but for emergency services, it does make it more sustainable for the those capital [48:44] Speaker G (unidentified): needs you know over time. Do we write it like a ballot question just put parentheses committee recommends getting up to a million dollars in the next so many years ah as a side note I don't know [48:58] Paul Cromer, Consultant: that I would have so many views because who knows if you say we believe the contingency fund should be a million dollars and then you say the committee says that recommends the select board works to get there, they could have a good budget year and say we're gonna put five hundred thousand dollars next year and then the next year you know 250 and they're there you know we don't that way it doesn't confine it but you also know the town might not be able to get to a million dollars for a few years so that's kind of the but they know the goal is to get there right? Yeah, I think that kind of splits the difference. I agree with that so [49:39] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: I'll rewrite that you [49:45] Speaker F (unidentified): okay with that Chris? Yeah, I get it right. All right, I have no idea the time. Yeah right, I just think [49:51] Speaker G (unidentified): yeah that's the end goal however they responsibly can do it is on them very [49:57] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: different. Yeah okay we [50:07] Paul Cromer, Consultant: already talked about six but I want to make sure we are all set [50:12] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: I'm not talking about anyone every thought a little time. I'm hearing that welcome is not going to raise their price for a capital next year. They are not. That's what they are. Is that a reliable source? Is that a reliable source? I think so. I think so. [50:38] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I think, well, I mean, if you really want six, we can also add, and also to talk about what their future planning is. So it's what's the quote, but then we also want to have the township approach them with, what is the one to three year outlook for Delta? You want to give a quick add-on? [50:57] Speaker G (unidentified): It so we can further plan what we may or may not need. Yep, because I've also heard if Fairfield I [51:06] Paul Cromer, Consultant: mean it's true Fairfield and other communities bail out even if they're saying right now we're not planning on it. That's going to have that's going to have an operational impact. Yeah, and even if they say don't worry we'll go for six months their business it's good unless they get a big donor from somewhere like money has to come from somewhere right when we say staging we're not [51:28] Speaker F (unidentified): talking about building a building. Yeah now okay we're talking about their parking somewhere. Yes. [51:33] Paul Cromer, Consultant: Like daytime they get the station they come out here and they hang out here. Yeah but I don't agree with that we are building a farm. No there's no station that's a smart ass [51:43] Speaker E (unidentified): on it dick who's not been not been steeped. I've been around your home. [51:50] Speaker F (unidentified): Sorry I'm afraid he's in everybody's leader so just unofficially [51:57] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: south behind those will not be increasing their price for a capital for the next year. [52:04] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I'm won't be surprised by it here all right but we can ask the question like what's the yeah I don't know like the [52:14] Speaker H (unidentified): asking the question of what the future is intending if it's young change [52:20] Paul Cromer, Consultant: and then seven would be to make this committee not a temporary committee a standing committee with at least an annual meeting to do a review of emergency services based on the, based on the, you know, to be called at the Willard's Lake Board? [52:45] Speaker F (unidentified): You know, I guess I think the committee has, hopefully it's been valuable, but I'm fine with the select board just determining if they think the recommendations from this committee are morality there and then what do we want to do about that as far as making the committee standing or not. I just I mean that should be there I mean it kind of sounds self-interested to do it. I think it would make sense if they decide to have a committee that they speak to of some of the people who are on this who already have a baseline of knowledge and experience with these issues. But, I mean, they know that, I hope. [53:38] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I guess we can actually just ask select board member [53:42] Speaker F (unidentified): advices to this. Do you feel that it should be a recommendation that would be beneficial [53:47] Paul Cromer, Consultant: or should it just be a wait and see afterwards and then you guys can have a conversation? [53:52] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: I'm not speaking for Ed, but we're here. We're listening to all the conversations here, so they haven't been privy to that. So I think, yes, I think that there was a recommendation where we, as a group or a board, vote to carry that on is one thing. But I think it's of value to put on there a recommendation for the other select board members that haven't been part of the meetings. I'm sure some of them have been watching the training. But I don't see any harm in that. [54:30] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: I personally, I don't, I said it before, I personally don't see any harm in, like you said, having a, basically a standing committee. You know, the people that have sat through this and everything, and we've all talked about stuff, and, you know, one meeting a year, we come in and we say, look, you know, things looking great and we have no great thank you very much if there's things that have changed and we can talk about it. I don't have a problem with it either way. I guess the, I guess do you [55:05] Paul Cromer, Consultant: think it should be, it would be back there should be a recommendation from the committee to the [55:09] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: select board? I do, I do. Yeah, I mean, I did it, I would consider that whether the other way. [55:16] Paul Cromer, Consultant: All right, well you're the two goodness, your record right here, so I guess that's, that's their opinion. [55:21] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: So I don't know if that changes here or something is happening. I mean, it'll get to the same place in the end, but I think it would be beneficial, at least a conversation piece. [55:30] Speaker F (unidentified): Right, well Jim wanted a seven, so [55:34] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: So I will make the adjustments and add seven. [55:54] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I will email it out. I'll do that this weekend or on a rainy weekend. And I'll give that out to you. [56:00] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: Anyway, if, it does come down that there is a annual meeting, I mean, I assume that you would be willing to be part of that meeting. I'm, yeah, I'm sure we can have that come, figure it out. I'm just saying because, I mean, you've been part of this so far. Well, I mean, from my perspective, [56:20] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I'm really happy to continue to engage with the time it doesn't happen, that's what we, I mean the [56:24] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: The committee can do it at the select board's description. [56:28] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I'm also very much, and I tell all of my clients that you can continue to have meetings. You don't need to pay me to come here. But if you have something you're like, we'd like your expertise, call me. I'm more than happy to have that conversation. [56:41] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: I guess that's kind of what I was thinking. [56:43] Paul Cromer, Consultant: Because I also, I do appreciate small, I work with a lot of small towns, and I don't want to collect our paycheck just for the sake of collecting a paycheck. I mean, I love collecting, but it's funny. But I mean, everyone likes getting a picture, but I do strongly believe in this work. But I don't believe in taking advantage of people for the sake of having to come. But yeah, if you need, you need me. [57:06] Speaker D (unidentified): You want to be calm, great. So is it happening, number nine? Is that happening, number nine? [57:13] Speaker F (unidentified): No,, it's a little bit, okay, I'm gonna do that. Good. But this committee, could this annual thing just come at the, with the select board decide they want to do it and not be an automatic thing because [Speaker E (unidentified): if you guys] want to have input from a committee, then I would still say that we just cancel, you know, committee ends, and if you need it again, start it again. That's the way I would look at it. If it becomes a standing committee, is it going to be mandatory that we come to that meeting, and what are we going to talk about? What's the agenda, I guess, at that point? It would depend to me. The committee should have a meeting if they need to, but not if there's no reason to. And if it's like, I believe there's [58:04] Speaker H (unidentified): a reason to. I think it's also kind of the agenda would be just to see, hey, how's, you know, what's the progress has been made with what's going on with the rescue, is it progressing the way we want and stuff like that, checking in here. It's basically why the SWAT board could do [58:26] Speaker F (unidentified): that regardless anyway. They should know that by that time, by that time, you know, it'll be a municipal [58:32] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: department. You guys like, maybe it may be at a maintenance, you know, Joel, you get yourself, and that I'm sure we are willing to that in the emergency services, we're going to come in and say this isn't working for a dam, you know, we need to do something different, which we may not flesh out so well. I'm sure this would be that being a benefit possibly to this current select board or [59:00] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: or another one, right? And I mean, what far I know, none of this has been mandatory for anybody to be here. So, it hasn't been mandatory. It's been very advisable for people to be here, but it hasn't been mandatory. [59:15] Speaker F (unidentified): I'm just saying that kind of on a general principle, standing committees tend to get a life of their own. Sometimes that's good, sometimes it isn't. The town has a million committees. The town has a million committees. [59:30] Blaine Casey, Select Board Member: It gets banned in a couple. [59:34] Speaker E (unidentified): I've been invited to one. [59:37] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: Don't worry, you're going to get invited to one. That's fine. [59:42] Paul Cromer, Consultant: I've never heard where he's gotten around here. He's one of the [59:47] Speaker F (unidentified): proponents of government-led committees. Don't look beneficial. Don't I? [59:56] Speaker G (unidentified): I'll send him one. Well, I think that [1:00:05] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: we get our recommendations. [1:00:10] Speaker D (unidentified): Yeah, I think so. [1:00:14] Paul Cromer, Consultant: You have a brand new idea completely out of land, I should have pulled off on that. [1:00:20] Speaker E (unidentified): So because this is a committee of consensus, Dick is the only one that's voiced concern about that recommendation. Does anybody else have any objections to the recommendation as it was written? [1:00:30] Paul Cromer, Consultant: Which one are we talking about? The 7-7 one. The one that's not on there, but it's the having a committee. So I guess the big question with consensus is the fact that you'd rather not have it but if they ask you to attend an annual meeting you would that's kind of yeah okay so that's that's kind of a consensus part that we do understand that you would rather not have a standing one but if you are asked to be on it you would have an annual basis I would consider it to be my responsibility as the chief of the firm that's fair more obligated then as the role things that you're doing is cheap and that's why you're pursuing [1:01:13] Speaker E (unidentified): you deserve more i've said that since day one [1:01:21] Paul Cromer, Consultant: well then i will i will type these up and i will have it i'll email them out the committee if you're able to come on the 19th i think it would be i would say it's beneficial for the something for me to be here. I think it'd be great if [1:01:36] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: everybody shows up at that at that meeting. You know, everybody can voice your opinion. Have you sent out a reminder to this group? Yeah. [1:01:46] Paul Cromer, Consultant: Because I will not remember. And I will get in [1:01:49] Speaker E (unidentified): touch. Well, I know you but I'm worried about the writing. I will be fine. Yes, that was a subordinate in October. October [1:01:58] Speaker F (unidentified): on december 19th october 19th okay the week is monday under six o'clock [1:02:05] Paul Cromer, Consultant: right here you won't be able to probably sit here though you'll have to probably extend the amount in the committee there'll be another seat that you'll have to find [1:02:15] Ed Bales, Select Board Member: the name won't be able to protect your sign [1:02:33] Speaker E (unidentified): Thank you, Paul. And thank you to everybody here for participating in the conversation. All of an evening.