Richmond Select Board sets mill rate at 11.75, approves excavator purchase

[0:53] Select Board member: And I just couldn't put my head around it. Yep. Your wife and I don't want to be laughing. [1:06] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Why don't we go and check in the rear of the car? I don't want to hear that. Oh, sorry. [1:13] Select Board member: There's a guy in an open cabin that has an alligator, like a full-sized alligator cart, got a wood ring on the edge of his palm. Did it want to hit that? [1:20] Speaker E (unidentified): I think so. I thought it was one of them. But he didn't. He had the mask on. He had the mask on. [1:25] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: I'd like to call the meeting to order. [1:31] Select Board member: Welcome, everybody. If you would, please join me. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [2:01] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Welcome, everybody, to the Reference Select Board meeting. My name is Robert Bosch. To my right is Manny Biskavich, Brian Yaw, Donald Burrs, and Casey Tuttle, Jim Chandler, the panel manager, and... [2:16] James Jameson, Board of Assessors member: James Jameson colored glass thank you for coming and this is the board of assessors [2:57] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Assessor action items 3.1 motion to set no rate for the 26-27 commitment. Discussion by the Board of Assessors. Discussion is now open. Can we go through the scenarios first? Sure. [3:22] Select Board member: We discussed this at the last Select Board meeting that you all would open this meeting as the Board of Assessors and the Board of Assessors are the Board of Select Board members. One and the same in original. And we went through a handful of scenarios relative to what would be needed in the way of a mill rate to meet the obligations that were approved at the town meeting in June. And we went through a series of scenarios. I can show you those. These are the scenarios that we discussed at the last meeting. And we started with what was sent to me from the assessor, Rob Duplissi. He sends us what would be what's considered the 100% maximum capture, which is the evaluation for the town after his work is complete as of April 1st with any changes that needed to be made to property's evaluations across the town for 2026 and the TIF districts. So he's obligated to send me that information, which he did, and it's in the gray. Actually exactly what he sent me, which is this document right here, and there's a lot of information on there, so I'm not going to try to explain all that summarize in this document. It shows that we have, you have Board of Assessors has the authority per state statute to set a mill rate no higher than twelve point 0.35 from 11.2, where we currently are, the valuation that he sent me in this document. And I can talk about the numbers if you want, but the bottom line is he doesn't recommend. He just says that is the 100% capture we would benefit from 100% revenues from the four TIF districts that we have, downtown, pipeline, the two new ones, four corners, one and two, out at the interstate. That would have resulted in a $1.15 per thousand increase or a 10.27% overall percentage increase. And then I did some scenarios with what would be a $500,000 property. But you rejected that. I recommended that you reject that out of hand last week. That's the baseline. So then we went on to discuss the scenarios. The scenario that would capture 60% of our TIF revenue with a mill rate of 11.8, would generate enough revenue for us to get to this number here, $878,000. This is not on the handout you have. You have the summary handout. This is the scenario handout. And that would result in, for a $500,000 property, $300 per year increase in taxes. Since it's provided some additional information in the handout that you all have and that you have in front of you as well, For a median home price value in the town of Richmond post-reval, according to Zillow and Redfin, is between $343,000 to $45,000. That would be a $204 increase at $11.8. And I can show you that is capturing this information here. But back to the scenarios, you asked me also to provide other options if we had the ability to lower the mill rate below that. I had 11-7-5, 11-6-5, 11-6, and 11-5. Now, since this discussion took place, I was asked in meetings with several of you, what would the impacts be, and in one case, what would the legality be for us to take action to set a mill rate below what would capture enough money to cover what was approved in the town warrant. And the attorneys in the Maine Municipal Association, our attorney, Ben McCall, I reached out to him on vacation this week so we couldn't benefit from his advice. But the MMA advice was that we do not have, you do not have, the town does not have, the authority to set a mill rate below that which would capture enough to cover what was approved in the town meeting. If you wanted to do that, you would have to hold another special town meeting to reduce the budgeted amounts that were approved in June. Including the TIF budget? Yes. Specifically including the TIF budget. And I put that, I sent you the email I got from MMA earlier today. I thought we set that amount on the warrant as an estimated amount. And I made that, I questioned that with the attorneys and they said it doesn't make any difference. We set $800,000 even if it's estimated. They were questioning whether we should have put the maximum amount. And they understand that we don't have that number until you set a mill rate. They understand that the state of Maine creates this challenge for us. You can't set a TIF budget until we have a mill rate. And the TIF revenues are directly a result of the multiplier, which is the mill rate. The mill rate sets the TIF revenue and the overlay amount. If we did not put the TIF amounts in our town warrant, would it have changed the potential to change the mill rate? Yes. How so? Well, if we didn't put that information in the warrant and have the citizens vote on it, then it wouldn't exist in the eyes of the attorney. Now, we know that it exists because we depend on those revenues to fund a variety of projects, programs, and eligible expenses. And you have been doing that for many years. I don't know beyond that. I would have to talk further with our attorneys and with the state attorneys because that wasn't the question I asked. They said if it's on the warrant and town approved the warrant at the town meeting, this you as an elected group do not have the authority by state statute to not approve a mill rate that would fund that amount. That leaves us with $11.75 or $11.80. And after I sent you all that email, I did have a conversation on the phone with our assessor, Rob DePlessy, and he's comfortable with either of those. He's comfortable with the lower overlay amount. The overlay amount is regulated, again, by state statute. It has to be a positive number, and it can't be more than 5% of the total. So we're We're well below that with either of those numbers. And he's not concerned. The majority of the abatements that we had, the overlay last year was $63,305. So we're way below that, but that was set at a higher amount because we expected more abatements because of the revaluation. And we don't expect that. He doesn't anticipate that being an issue this year. So $63,000, we approved. Less than $20,000 in abatements? How much has been... 39,000 evictions have been approved. About half, a little under half. Yep. [10:53] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So they still have a $27,000 buffer there on the overlay? [10:57] Select Board member: Yep. And that, whatever we don't use, drops to the bottom line and goes into the undesired fund balance. So, a lot of information. Trying to summarize it the best I can and give you what I've learned from the attorneys today. That we can go higher, but we can't go lower. And I wouldn't recommend going any higher than we have to. If you're asking for my position in managing your finances, my recommendation would be to keep the mill rate at the lowest possible mill rate that you can and still satisfy the requirements that are set by the warrant, which is our budget, school budget, county. The county tax obligation isn't on the warrant because we don't have the amount until July, but we're obligated to pay it. And that went up 17.5%. So when we take advantage of the TIF, every dollar that we use is money that we don't pay county tax on? Correct. It's not captured in the valuation. The leveraged amount, the leveraged value of the TIF dollar for this town at the 11.2 mill rate is roughly $1.43. $1.43 is what that dollar is worth to us. So looking at this, I mean, what's to stop us from capturing everything at 100%, but for every dollar we're using the TIF, we decrease a dollar on the ask and then save that 43 cents per dollar. Do you understand what I'm asking? I do. And most towns who have TIF districts capture at 100% because they understand the value of that dollar. But could we drop that 11.75 because of the 43 cents we're saving per dollar? No. No. No. The 1175, the multiplier, I don't want to get too crazy, but the multiplier is the no rate for the TIF. But if we decrease our ask outside of the TIF, if we're using it to supplement for this year, whatever the excess TIF that we're not using right now, using it to supplement things that we could, that are existent. The math doesn't work that way. This is the form that I showed you before that we got from the assessor with the modifications on it. So here we're capturing 100% of the pipeline TIF. We're only capturing 60%, so that number is multiplied times 0.6, and that gives us the revenue here. If we change the TIF, if we change the mill rate, let's say just by a branch, that pushes the mill rate has to go up in order for the TIF revenue. go up. I think that's what I'm hearing you say, which is that what I'm hearing you say? I was saying instead of take $50,000 that we're going to pay towards that we're going to tax the city or town towards expenses and instead of taxing that dollar for dollar, use it for the TIF budget that we're not taking advantage of and decrease the valuation of the town and save that $0.43 cents a dollar for those So what you're saying is that... And we did that in the budget process. So in the budget process... Right. Could we continue to do that? Absolutely. I mean, this is where... [14:44] James Jameson, Board of Assessors member: Let me back up to [14:45] Select Board member: Minnie's point for a quick second and say that you asked for as much transparency as we could provide. To you and to everyone. So you hadn't put the TIF on the town warrant, at least not recently. I've understood that you did it years ago, but recently you hadn't. And I thought that because it's tax dollars, the residents needed to understand that they were going to be paying taxes on that amount of money. It's a leveraged amount, so it's to their advantage, but it needed to be on the warrant. from my perspective I recommended beyond warrant you agree we put it on the one so and so that's how they love so for an increase beyond both on the warrant that would be money that could be used towards other tip expenses but not necessarily towards already voted on budget items yeah I mean what I'm hearing you say would be if next year during the budget process we wanted to increase these numbers which is undesired fund balance estimated tiff revenue offsets, and other revenues, this is the number that, if you can see, it's not displaying very well. No, I mean, we're planning on not using it for other things and just using it for budgeted items. Yes. In particular, Bob. This number is what we're spending on the budget for administration. It's a combination of this number, which is approved at the town meeting. That's on the warrant. 312.312 is on the warrant, approved by the citizens. This number is within that other TIF revenue number that was estimated at $400,000 or $450,000. And that's true of all of these numbers. So if you wanted to increase the TIF capture and reduce the appropriation amount, you would increase the mill rate to capture that additional. In other words, if you wanted to capture a million dollars in TIF revenue, the mill rate would be $1235. But could we not decrease the town capture by a million? Oh, you certainly could. I mean, I would have to play with the number. I couldn't speak intelligently about that without looking at it. But yes. For every dollar? Yes. If decreased? As long as they're eligible expenses. We can't pay for the whole town budget with TIF revenues because they're not all eligible. Right. But, like, for instance. I guess my question is why wouldn't we look? Let me just, police department budget. All right. It's got $22,000. And the tax, the procreation amount for the police department is $266,526. So that's going to pay for the police department's operations. Officer salaries, operational expenses, everything. With some TIF revenue, because any time they work at an event, that's a public event that qualifies for TIF revenue, like Richmond Days, Trump or Tree, anything that would be considered a community event slash economic development, those are eligible expenses for TIF revenue. Their regular patrol time? No. TIF can't pay for that. Now, what I ask kind of was, let's say we're going to pay, we can't do this, but let's say we're paying, someone saw it was $100,000. Right now we're paying it out of town appropriations. But if we were to instead raise the TIF $100,000, pay for that, and then not, and decrease the town appropriation $100,000, that $100,000 that we just raised TIF-wise isn't being taxed the same way. So our taxes would actually go down the stuff that we're paying to... Well, the appropriation amount would go down, but the tax revenue would not. But the amount that we're paying to the county, the county taxes... Yes, the valuation amount back to the other sheet. But that doesn't affect this year's bill? No, the valuation amount here is buried in this formula, but it's at the max capture. Let me display it a little bit better. So the max capture that we have with the increased amendments, that number that he sent me didn't have the new downtown amended value, but the new downtown amended value with the new amendments that we added, the parcels that we added to the downtown tip is $37,883. So that's a total of $86 million that we're, quote, sheltering from the state. So every dollar that we shelter from the state, the tax shift benefits are here trying to do this people can see a little bit better is that better so 86 million capturing a million dollars in TIF revenue requiring the maximum mill rate of twelve three five which is an increase of a dollar fifteen per thousand gives you in addition to the money that's leveraged tax dollars, it gives you the school subsidy maxed out at $488,000. Now, that becomes part of a three-year rolling average for the TIF shift benefit, tax shift benefits from TIF, that the school, it increases the state subsidies to the school. Got it. Okay? So, when we reduce that amount, we reduce that subsidy up. This is the subsidy that the municipality gets from the state for revenue sharing at maximum. So I guess that's my ask. The county tax benefit discount is the middle. It's the school subsidy that we're putting in. The big one is by far. So I guess that's my question. Why not capture it 100% to get the $1 million, but then cut $1 million in tasks from the town? Because we wouldn't. The tax bill doesn't go down. Well, the tax bill wouldn't go down, but also wouldn't we receive $480,000 in state subsidy? Over the next three years. Well, the state subsidy would be, yes, over the next, it's an average, a three-year rolling average. And that average has already taken the hit the first year from the reval. So it's going to take a couple years to work through that. But I would be cautioning you that I'd have to look hard to find eligible TIF. I was just thinking. Yeah, I would have to look hard to make sure that we were spending that million dollars on eligible TIF projects. It wouldn't be the same as the way I've got it distributed this year. But if you wanted to set aside, you can set aside X number of dollars in TIF revenue and build a community center in a couple of years or something like that. To potentially cover existing costs, already voted on an appropriate town meeting and potentially get some... It's certainly worth looking at harder next year, and I would encourage us to look harder at it with the school, because state law last year changed the TIF eligibility for schools, so we are allowed to spend TIF dollars, municipal TIF revenue, on school infrastructure up to a certain percentage. That's new in the state of Maine. That was not allowed before. So there are ways that the state is allowing us to be more flexible with the use of our TIF revenues. News, the law also allowed 25% towards the improvement of municipal buildings, like this building, which had always been prohibited before. None of that's going to help tonight. Yeah. I mean, I'm just being candid. But I appreciate the thought. I hope I explained it well enough. I think so. [22:20] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So go back to the scenario situation. This is what you want. Either one of those, 11-8, 11-7-5, would work as far as those numbers there, covering the basic obligations? [22:45] Select Board member: The way I understand the legal advice I got today from the attorney at Maine Municipal Association, yes. There was the argument that Rob, the assessor, challenged me on this on the phone after he got the same email, okay, and said, should the mill rate capture the full $8.50 and ignore the carryover? And I said, neither of us can answer that intelligently tonight, so I'm going to suggest no. We can capture the minimal amount between the lowest possible mill rate gives us this revenue right here or here. I'm more comfortable with this number based on what I know what it looks like, but with respect to the taxpayers, if a nickel is, I mean, that's your decision. I'm recommending that legally we can adopt either of these two or anything up to that number right there. So the range that you have to pick from, that's the lowest if we combine $108,000, which is our current TIF carryover amount from years prior to FY26. Because we have FY26 carryover as well. And the combination of all that gets us to this number or this number, at least one of these two right here, with the mill rate generating this revenue, either $7.45 or $7.76. Does that answer your question? Looking at this box. Yes. Well, looking at this box. And I put this together, and I shared this with the schools so that people know where their tax dollars are going. So in the last four years, I'll get to your point, 41%. The schools have gone up four years, 41%. The county's gone up four years, 46%. The town's gone up in four years, 7.5%. The TIF has gone up 3.3%. With the outlier from last year to this year, because last year we didn't catch her enough because of the assessor error. Okay, but that's rear-view mirror. This box you asked about, this amount, the Gardner Ambulance, that money is spent. It's been given to Gardner, okay? The fire hydrants, it's been spent. Goes to the utility district, the streetlight bill, effectively it's it's a it's a monthly bill, but it's something that we've committed to for paying for the street lights for the downtown, so that money is not touchable from my perspective. The PW roads, public works roads, is 429, which is what I budgeted in the pipeline, plus the 82,000 over for the escalation, plus the change orders, that money's spent. The Beetle Road work is done. Richmond Days is done. It's in the rearview mirror. It costs us $29,000. About $9,000 of that was eligible TIF revenue for payroll. So we were able to use TIF revenues to pay for all the payroll for public works, police, fire, everybody that worked that got paid from the TIF revenue, plus all the other expenses. The adult ed is a signed document that we agreed on last spring because it's TIF eligible funding, and the school district is counting on that. It's not spent yet. And none of these other numbers down here are spent, with the exception of Peacock Beach. $10,200 was the revenue that we used, well it was the cost of the payroll for the kids to work at Peacock Beach this summer. And that comes out of TIF because you've historically taken it from TIF. I would recommend we consider using the Peacock Beach Reserve for that amount, giving us the $10,000 less that we need from TIF this year. The Peacock Beach Reserve is around $60,000 a game, $60-something plus a game, so it can easily absorb that $10,000 cost. The facade grants are committed. Those were awarded based on the facade applications that we got, so that 46126 number, there's no play in that. The other numbers, police, public works, fire, admin, facilities, FAC means facilities, library, those are numbers that are soft. And I can look for finding ways to reduce those numbers this year. So 39 and 885 for the Peacock, do they also appear? That's other parks. No, the Peacock. Parks and Peacock. Yeah, parks and Peacock Beach. So the 39 and 885 is Hoodlet Lane, Waterfront. Some of which are spent or all is spent? No,, no. No. A little bit of that spend, not a lot. No. The stuff I bought for the waterfront, I wanted to get it out of last year's TIF carryover in advance of Richmond days. That's the stuff, the dock repairs, the new furniture, stuff like that came out of last year's TIF carryover. And or the TIF budget, because we had TIF budgeted money for the waterfront. And the number's still the same with the 11-5. We need $158,000 more to even entertain that number, right? Because we had that material, that we learned $80,000 when we were having our discussion the last time. And those numbers weren't up to date. And I apologize. I shouldn't have even shown that to you because that hadn't been worked on. Neither Lori nor I had updated those spreadsheets. So she's still working on a closeout for last year. But we're close. So this mill rate here would not get us over the threshold of 850, which is what we need to do to satisfy the legal opinion I got today. So I would tell you that 's not an option. The lowest mill rate that I would recommend that you adopt and be within the guidance we got from the attorneys would be 1175. I know you spoke to the percentage of increase from the county. County, can you just briefly speak to the increases on the municipal side and the school side and just give the percentages of increase for those other areas? Because 17% for county in comparison to what we had for school and municipal, just so that people have an understanding of where the most significant or where the increases are coming from in that middle chart. No, this is 26 to 27, so this is one year. This is the three years from 23 to 27. When I went, I presented this to the school leadership, Chad Kempton and Ashley, and they were concerned that this is right here is what I have. This is what I can speak to, and that is, they were concerned that we were displaying, These are numbers. These are facts. These are approved numbers. There's no gray area. I can show you year to year the increases. There was an outlier year in the school district. It was either the first or second year out of the school's RSU. It was a 14 plus percent increase. But it averages out over the four years to 41%. Well, then average it, totals 41%, which is an average of 10% per year. And they said, well, the school budget would have gone up anyway. I mean, the school budget would have gone up if they stayed in the RSU. The trends of schools shows over the course of the last however many years you want to go back and a regular increase. Okay, and so what I did was I took an analysis of from 2019 right here. So I did an analysis starting in 2019 going up to 2023, and that revealed that the in that four year period of time the school budget increased five hundred and fifty six thousand dollars, five hundred fifty six thousand two hundred ninety dollars, which was a 16.76% increase over those four years, from 2019 to 2023, while we were in the RSU. And then from 23 to 27, you can see that from 23 to FY26, 2026 to FY27, it went up 41% because the school budget changed from 23 to 26, $1,590,737. And the town's budget increased, county budget went up $258,000, and the TIF revenues increased $18,000. This is over the course of that four year period, so those are the increases, and that's more easily seen in this table here. I didn't do a table like this for the four years prior. If I did a table that said 2019 to 2023, 23. Those other numbers would be in these columns. Does that answer your question, Manny? Yes and no. I mean, you've given a good, you know, where we've been in the past four years in terms of where a lot of our tax money is needing to go to. And I think sometimes, like if you were to look at that middle chart or the first chart right there, where you see the school increase is 4%. 4% in a $5 million budget is significantly different than 1% in a $2 million budget. So even though the percentage isn't there, the amount of money that actually equates to is pretty significant in comparison. And that's why I list both. The $210,000 increase, the county budget went up $123,000, and the town budget went up $24,000. And the TIF revenue goes up more significantly because we under-collected last year. So we're going back. The goal for me and for you and what I would recommend to you would be stability in the tax rate. That's the goal of every town manager I know. You want to be able to be predictable. This is not where you want surprises. So you want stability, and to get to stability, you want to be able to have predictable either increases or static. If you can stay static, that's great, especially in today's economy. [33:48] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So at that current rate of the last 40 years of the school system, though, is a higher rate than if they were still in the IRSU. [33:55] Select Board member: By over a million dollars. By over a million dollars. [33:58] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So to follow up on your question, the way that the tax dollars are going. Yes. So that's numbers. [34:06] Select Board member: This 159, let's say the tip, I mean the schools went up 1 million five hundred and ninety one thousand in the in the independent and then if they were if they stayed the same and seen the same rate of increase as the previous four years it would have gone up five hundred fifty six thousand so there's a million plus difference and that's just the numbers I'm not I'm not being judgmental I'm just saying that is and those are the [34:42] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: numbers well again to finish answering her question as far as transparency so where the actual heights are coming from where the increases are so if [34:56] Select Board member: We go to of 11 and 75 would have the overlay of only $9,600 and $9,700. And if we have abatements that come in higher than that, It would come out of it. It would just go over. The amount would just go over what's budgeted and it would end up being a negative out of surplus. A surplus this year, potentially. Oh, we will have a surplus this year. I mean, we did have a surplus. Plus. That $63,000 was for FY26 and we're into FY27 now. So we did it. I'll tell you that challenges me and I've told you this all before I won't get on soapbox but in other places you set a tax rate for property taxes and then you adopt a budget. So you figure out how much you can afford to spend and then you budget to that amount. Maine does it the other way around. Maine we set the budget we adopted it at a town meeting in June and then we have to figure out how much we need to pay for it when we get the accessory reports in September August and September and we get the county tax bill in July and then at the end of all that put all that information into this spreadsheet and that spreadsheet calculates the mill rate the overlay and the tip revenue so the only the only numbers that I can play with and I've And I've showed a couple of you this just real Quickly. I can go back and for this, let's do the scenario here with 11.75. So, and I just did this. So, 55% of the downtown, if we change that, then it changes other variables. But the only variables that I'm allowed to touch are these TIF district revenues, okay, and the mill rate. Those are the only variables that I can manually manipulate in this spreadsheet that comes from the assessor. The 820-996 is the county tax, non-negotiable. 223-281 is what the town approved in the budget for the town municipal warrant. The $5,465,217 was approved on the town warrant for the school district. And then this information up here is what Rob gives me, which has, these are figures that he determines that I don't touch, because their homestead exemption values and discounts and the reimbursements that we get for those, and that's something that Rob figures out, and those are, those are again, those, when they get, when they come from him each year, that's, those are the numbers. It's like the valuation, his valuation was 570, and if you look down here, you see all of this stuff gets added together, and you get 625 and then we're discounting it by capturing whatever percentage we capture in the tiff districts and in this scenario we're capturing 63 million in value which is 73 percent of the total 86 499 that we could capture and i apologize it's a lot of numbers that's that's how it works that's that i mean to coin the phrase this is how the sausage [38:10] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: gets made, and it's not pretty. So, a $9 overlay projection, I mean, abatements should be about done, aren't they? [38:22] Select Board member: And that's what Rob, I told him, I said, Rob, these are the numbers. We talked on the phone an hour ago. And he was like, yeah, I'd like 16, but if you go for 9, then we'll do, we'll make it work. He doesn't expect there to be a lot more changes and abatements. [38:37] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So is there an end game on the abatement time period, or is that for year to year? [38:44] Select Board member: No, it just goes on. It's ongoing. Anytime somebody discovers that they think that there's an error in their tax bill, it could be next month, it could be next spring. And they have Rob and his assessor team go out and evaluate it, and then they determine whether there's a valid complaint and or claim, and then they make the adjustment, and that hits the abatement. The abatement would hit. Or in the other scenario, if somebody, he missed something and they owe us more taxes, it's the same thing. That's an ongoing, there's no timeline on that. [39:29] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Anybody have any more questions? We've [39:39] Select Board member: Got two choices. Actually, three. Well, you can go anything above 1175 and satisfy the attorney, up to 1235, and I can compute. You want to look at a different scenario above that, I can throw the numbers together and on the screen right here tell you what that would be, but given this, given this information and the discussions that I've had with the assessor, with the attorneys, and your town manager, I would recommend that you go with the lowest possible mill rate increase that legally satisfies our obligation from the town meeting, and that would be eleven seven five. It's a 4.9% increase, and that's relative to the overall increase of expenses, which is 6.67%. So if you want to look, and again, percentages can be deceiving based on the total amount of money you're talking about, but if the total amount of money you're talking about is $15 million and we're raising revenue from an appropriations amount of, what would it be, 7.3 % would be commitment of anywhere from $6.9 million up to 7.76, 706. And that's determined after we set this rate, and we go through and we get the deductions that we'll get when we do the municipal valuation report, which is something Rob does for us. After we give him the mill rate, he'll complete his work, which is to complete that 14-page form for the state that gives them all of the information we've been talking about, and when we do that we get two additional, there's a term, it's like a discount. We get an amount for Betty and we get an amount for Homestead that's credited back. It's a reduction in the assessed value that we have to tax people for. So it'll be that number minus those. We're talking about $15 million in expenses and paying for that with $6.9 to $7.7 million in tax dollars, and everything else comes from other sources to make up the difference. So the town benefits from a million plus in estimated revenues. Most of that is excise tax that we collect right at the counter. We get state revenue sharing. We get the discounts for Homestead and Betty. The schools get millions of dollars from the state to supplement their budget of $9.1 million, and we're appropriating $5.4 million of that in tax dollars. So they're getting a lot of money from the state, which is where that tax shift comes into play, but it's relatively small considering the size of the numbers. [42:44] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So the difference between the two scenarios is, you know, $16,000 to $17,000-ish to $9,000. So if the worst case scenario, if we had $16,000 worth of abatements or a good number was up there, the un-dedicated fund could cover us on that particular, on the X-Files, your line, from $9,000 to $14,000. Well, I'm pretty certain we'd like to have 16-ish. So he may have anticipated some more abatements. [43:15] Select Board member: If he was. If he was. I don't even know. To me, though, he put 27. I was going to say, this is the thing, too. It was something wrong. It was something that didn't come this year. That number didn't change back. Okay, there we go. I'm sorry. These are all connected. Spreadsheets are all connected. So 11-8 is where we are. And that gives us this revenue. Revenue and the mill rate and the overlay of $16,340. If we needed to use undesignated funds, would that require a special town meeting or would that? If you're going to use undesignated funds, yes. That was in, yes, that was part of the legal opinion. Because you can do one of two things. You can have a special town meeting, call a special town meeting before you set a mill rate and ask the town to vote on a lower budget number. Or you can have them vote on use of undesigned funds. But if we went with the $9,700 overlay as opposed to the $16,000 overlay and we went over the $9,000 do we have to have a special town meeting to... Not unless we go more than 5% over that. Because whatever... So if it's more than 5% over whatever is left over in regular budget... That triggers a requirement I believe Leave for a town meeting. I'll be in front of that calculation. I just want to be clear. I haven't seen that need, but this is my first select board, select town meeting form of government. I'm used to working with councils in larger towns. But I believe that, yes, that's the case. Are you making that decision now, or do we have to have the public hearing to see what the public says? I structured this meeting tonight in such a way that you all would have this opportunity to discuss this information and everything that's the latest and greatest from attorneys and assessors and all of that and then give the opportunity for you to offer the opportunity to the public to make comments or ask questions. That's how I set this up. And I did that based on the way we did it last year. So we would make a motion of which one we wanted to propose. And as far as that goes, yeah, you could make a motion at any time and if there's a second then you would have discussion and then you can open it up to the public. You can open up the public before you do that. There's no rules about that. [46:15] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Public, as far as comments on no-rate scenarios? [46:19] Select Board member: I'm just wondering why we have scenario 3, 4, and 5 that 's our related option. Did I miss something at the beginning? We presented those at the last select board meeting before I knew that the attorney was going to weigh in and say that those were not going to be allowed. I was looking at it, and they had directed me to give them options for a lower ability. And if we had the ability, legally, to look at one of those lower scenarios, I would then be tasked, and or the school district, would then be tasked with finding ways to cut the budget for this current fiscal year below what was approved at the town meeting. Does that answer your question? So they were presented during a window of time where I thought they were a possibility. So I found out today that they're no longer legally a possibility. [47:18] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Because of the town meeting in June. [47:20] Select Board member: Yeah, because of what the town voted for him to do. The warrant dictates. That's the legally binding document because the legislative body in this town is you. It's the citizens. And that's when you voice your, you know, exercise your rights in the town meeting and you vote on the warrant. That's done deal. I'm not so sure the budget they passed affects their mill rate and what they spend. Letting them know that. Because they locked themselves into something that may be worth having special. We want to change this in this situation. Because it's their tax dollars, it's going to affect. I'm just making a comment. The public until now, I didn't really and I still don't understand a lot I'll admit but right now I'm kind of if I had gone to the town meeting and I voted for what I felt was right in the budget and then found this out later I wouldn't be a little bit upset. I will say that I appreciate that this is that person responsible for putting this together. They don't know I know that budget they set could affect their mill rate because of how the state handles it. Nothing to do with any of you people. It's how the state deals with it. [49:08] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: I think one of the other scenarios this year was the perfect storm, if you will, as far as the re-evaluation. The TIF is one thing. The TIF, understanding that's another equation. But the timing for everything and the way that everything is in the world, you know, it could have been a worse time for the valuation. [49:33] Select Board member: It could have been a worse time. You're going to have other problems. All the changes. Fuel stays the way it is. [49:39] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: The final number, as far as people in the town meeting, you know, when they go to the town meeting, I know for a fact that they hold you to that number. [49:50] Select Board member: Right, well, I'm not so sure they understand what was just explained here, that they come up with a number and they're going to get what they see fit done in town, or the better, you know, I'm not that one, I can't disagree with that, and then you in this meeting you'll find out what they voted for numbers, cause this scenario right here. If they knew what was going to cause this scenario, would they think about cutting something or not funding something? Not that I'm saying we should cut or not fund, but at some point in time, it's got to level up. And they're not aware of what happens when they vote for that number. They're just assuming, okay, I can deal with that, because they didn't know what was going to happen after the guy got done with his figures, and that's another hot situation. Right. But if they knew the higher they go could affect this scenario, they might want more information and better recommendations, I guess is my question. [51:07] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Yeah, and I don't know. [51:09] Select Board member: I think this year we were, I mean Jim did a great job of being very transparent, you know, parent with the municipal budget and was able to answer a lot of the questions. I think we have all fallen a little short in understanding and knowing and the transparency of the school budget. You know, we're kind of like two ships that are passing in the night, you know. And I totally understand that. I picked this up from what I heard here. And all I'm saying, should the townspeople be aware of this in the next town meeting? Whatever they do there, where they set the number. And I don't know how you could give them a spreadsheet until they set the number as you said. That's the tough deal. Well, I appreciate that, and I told this group when I was working through the budget process here for the first time that I'm not comfortable doing it in a void. So I was pulling numbers to estimate, and I estimated a 5% increase in accounting tax based on the history of the last five years. I thought that was a reasonable increase. I didn't see 17.5% coming. None of us saw that coming. I'm not sure what that pays for, but it's just a bill we get. It's like when you pull up to the gas pump, you can't negotiate from $5 a gallon down to $3. You just pay them. But I appreciate the comment and the question. Is there something that can be questioned about that county? Because I thought I saw some stuff, like even on whatever Facebook, about the increase. Did you guys, supposedly they've sent the selectmen to all the people in Saginaw County. There was a member of the select, the commissioner, County commissioner for our district within Sagaw County came by and visited the office a day when I was off. I was not here when he stopped by. So I haven't talked to him. But they weren't sent to negotiate. No. Sorry. He didn't leave a message that he was going to reduce that bill. I mean, we get the tax pay as a warrant. It comes from the county, and we pay it. That's that simple. I mean, I guess if it were me as your manager, I would tell you that I would try to find out and go to some of their budget meetings next year. Can we question, you know, that increase? Oh, absolutely. Well, if you don't pay it? They probably locked me up. I don't know about the rest of y'all. They'd probably come for somebody. I don't know the answer to that question. I guess the thing is, there a service towards we lose if we don't pay it? The county sheriff? Well, the county provides us with sheriff's department versus management office and a jail. And I'm not sure in this county what else. Communication center for our dispatchers. They do provide some service. That's a foolish question. And I appreciate it. I'm just saying. Yeah, well, the rhetorical nature of it, yes. Yeah, I have not talked to the county commissioners about that. So, again, when does the county give you their figures? After town meeting. It was late July when this, I mean, the warrant's in there in the office. Everything happens after town meeting, you know. Well, and that's the problem. Can't we see what's going on? Can we make a town meeting a little bit later? Yeah, exactly. You know, you're getting all your numbers afterwards. [54:52] James Jameson, Board of Assessors member: Now you're sitting here and saying 5% is okay. [54:55] Select Board member: You know, for six straight years we held the line. How did we do that? How did we hold the line for six straight years and now everyone's okay with 5%? Jesus, it's not bad. [55:11] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: You just saw most of the scenarios there, you know, 41% of the schools in the last four months, 60, 17, 18% from the county that, you know, all this stuff just happened just was dropped on not the schools, but the county late July. Exactly. [55:29] Select Board member: How do you end up 46% in the last three years? Four years. This is something else. Like Bob said. You can tell this is the town meeting, but I'm going to tell you right now we don't know what the county increase is going to be. We don't know how this is going to affect the mill rate. Just like you know, before you vote on this, you might want to leave the door open. Because now you've got lawyers telling you, I can give you these three scenarios, but you can't use them. Well, they didn't give them to us. Those are generally what might be the request of the select board. We were looking for ways to go with the lower increase. Right. Which is what, you know, what the job entails. To Minnie's point, if we were to ask for it, because, and I mentioned this last, that's the last meeting. We recommended that we set the assessor's date for tonight and that you vote on the mill rate tonight. We need a mill rate by October in order to set the tax goals out. We were a little late last year because of the rebound. We did it in the first week in October. So if you wanted to wait a week, you could. I'm not recommending that because I don't see that there's anything that's going to change. And the one thing that comes to mind with regards to, do we want to hold a special town meeting to talk about reducing the budget? Well, the only budget we would have the power to reduce would be the municipal budget. The school budget has already been passed at the town meeting and by referendum. So I'd have to go back to the attorneys and see if we have any way to sway that. And my suspicion is that answer would be no. No, there's no way we can adjust this year, this fiscal year's school budget after the fact. And I did have a conversation with the superintendent and he said he does not have any play in his budget. His budget's locked in. So I asked him if we needed to look for ways to reduce the budgets to get to a lower mill rate before I realized that wasn't even going to be allowed by the state statute. Statute. He was adamant that his budget is what it is. We have the reserve accounts. We could certainly use some of the reserve accounts, like I mentioned, for Peacock Beach. That would be where I'll be looking for, if we adopt one of these and again, and I've mentioned this to several of you in one-on-one meetings, the 850 was an estimate in the warrant, based on the idea that I knew we would pull more if we went with a mill rate that would work to pull not the $1.68 million, but I was thinking we would probably be... When I arrived last year, the budget I inherited from my predecessor had an estimate of TIF revenue of $907,000. And because of the assessor error, not to throw them under the bus, but we had an error in our calculation, we went through with it, we moved forward, the taxpayers benefited in a sense because they have they got a lower mill rate last year but we lost some chip revenue so to get back to where we had a stability in that budget line I was recommending this 850 knowing that we had budgeted 907 before we only pulled 546 so that's where all the 546 went that's where the carryovers were spent to make up for that difference last year, plus Beal Road. Sorry. I wanted to make sure that you understood that even if you wanted to postpone and try to set up some sort of a special town meeting. No, that wasn't what I asked. I asked if we did not meet the overlay, if the overlay exceeded what. Oh, okay. No,, no. So would we have to at that point? Not that I want, I don't want a town meeting before we set the mill rate. That wasn't what I was asking. No,, no,, no,, no,, no, you're fine. I know it is a moot point for this year, but I think people have brought up some important things. Can we explore the possibility of moving our town meeting date to sometime after we get all of the bills? I'm not saying we do that immediately, but can we explore that possibility? Are we legally able to do it, and is that something the townspeople would be willing to vote on to do for one? The other one is I would personally like to invite our county commissioner representative to come to several of our select board meetings so that we can have conversations with them about how they're really not reaching out in regards to the services that they provide, given the fact that you have never met or seen them, and they've stopped in once for some purpose. I met one of the county commissioners at an EMA exercise at the Bath facility. It wasn't their courthouse, it was the other building. I don't know, I don't remember who it was. No, I'm just saying it would be nice if our representative actually knew what we wanted as part of the services that they provide for some or all of the county. Because I think it does depend on which side of the county that you're on. That you'd get certain services versus the other side of the county, and we're all paying equal amounts of taxes, if you will. Or show up and justify the 17% increase. [1:01:13] James Jameson, Board of Assessors member: Or give us a heads-up. [1:01:14] Select Board member: Exactly. Where is that money going? What is the breakdown there? Why the increase? Why all of a sudden, as you said, we went from the 5% pretty, you know. Yeah, I was just averaging the last 5, 10 years, whatever it was, because I have all that information historically. So again I wanted to take a guess at something sure and these are two things that I know are not going to impact our decision tonight but moving forward if there's a way we can explore those possibilities it sounds like people are perhaps wanting those questions asked or want some of that direction if we then shift that meeting, do we have control of the tax bill? Press for time? Do you know what I'm asking? If we have the town meeting in October, can we shift the first meeting? Before you start talking, to Randy's point and your point, our fiscal year starts July 1st. So, if we're going to change the town meeting date, we would need to look at the idea of changing the fiscal year. That's not an easy thing to do. It's certainly doable. [1:02:25] James Jameson, Board of Assessors member: There are other towns. [1:02:26] Select Board member: The city of Caribou is calendar year. They looked at changing from calendar year to go to July 1 to June 30 because 90% of the municipal world is on that calendar. Maine isn't unique there. [1:02:41] Speaker E (unidentified): That's true of most. [1:02:42] Select Board member: The federal government uses October 1 to September 30 as their fiscal year. So there are other options out there. And I'm happy to explore those. I'm happy to explore those and talk to Rob about what we might be able to get from him. Earlier, the key information that we need for this stuff is from the assessor. Not to put him on the spot, but his work is done April 1st. That's the tax year. March 31st of this 2026 is when the values stop. Stopped. Whatever we're working with is what was that value on that date. So from March 31st to now, we would have the assessor evaluation information, which is the biggest part of this. And if we just held a placeholder for the worst case scenario from the county, then that would be better than where we are now. And it would be helpful to the citizens at the town meeting, even if we kept it in the early part of June. Does the county have any obligation when to submit to you the I don't know. I just, no, I just, this is my first year. We have a commitment on when we have to pay that. Yes. So it would be nice if, you know, by the end of July or the middle of August or something. Well, I mean, I think we could carry. They may have that number before July 1st. I just, we just get the bill when we get the bill. Well, you know. So I can certainly make that inquiry along with asking them and inviting them to come join us for a meeting or two. Are you implying that maybe the assessor could give us the numbers sooner? Yes. Can we do that? We talked to him about doing that this year. I mean, that seems like the easiest bet or to say it. Well, and I'm not looking to add to our payroll, so don't take this the wrong way, but there are a lot of towns who have their own assessor. And they're doing this work in an office down the hall. And it's available right away. We're working with an assessor company, Rob Duplissi, RJD Appraisals, is our assessor. And they're assessing, they're doing that service for a lot of other towns. And I do know that he was doing the reval for a couple of towns, including Bowdoin this past spring, summer. So I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but I'm just saying that we asked for that information earlier. Earlier, Lori and I both thought we were going to get some numbers in August, and we didn't. We didn't get them until early September. Is he under contract, or is he just... That's a great question. If he's under contract, you could almost specifically... Sure. I will tell you that I don't know if he's under contract, if we secured a contract with him, or if it's just a year-to-year agreement. I don't know the answer to that question. I can certainly find out. Now, I did find out that we don't have a contract for our IT company. We just use them on a long-call basis. So we don't have levels of service agreements. We don't have things that I would be liking us to have with our IT provider that we'll be talking about in another meeting. Yeah. I just asked if you had a contract. I appreciate the question. I wish I had a yes or no answer, and I don't. You don't specify when you want to be in commission. Do you recall as a body that you've executed a contract in the broad? I don't think so. Okay. The other side of that coin is that I like and respect Rob and the work that he's done. He's provided us good customer service. Oh, I totally understand. And the rest of that sentence [1:06:25] Speaker E (unidentified): would be meeting with members [1:06:27] Select Board member: of the Saginaw County Administrators group, the administrators and managers for all the other towns in Saginaw County. There are towns that don't have an assessor and don't have the services of an assessing company. They're struggling to find people to do that work. So I think we're fortunate. I used to be able to sit at that table and say, we have an auditor. And we've got two proposals. We're going to be bringing that to you soon. But, yeah, so we're looking for an auditor because we're three years behind on our audits. They're few and far between in Maine. Do you have a number anywhere handy of what we have collectively in under some of these funds? No, because we haven't had an audit in three years. I have a good idea. I know that Lorie, our finance director, Lorie Boucher, and I were talking about it a couple weeks ago. And she was nervous when she saw that balance, you know, in the bank balance of $3 million and change and not $5 million and change. Because we've spent a lot of money this summer on the Betel Road. And we pulled that out of our savings account. $927,000 is what we voted at the town meeting to use to keep the tax rate down. $800,000 of that was for the Betel Road. So it's not like this group hasn't made efforts to keep the mill rate as low as we can by using the resources and the assets that we have. And as a manager, that makes me nervous because I like to see that un-designated fund balance a little healthier. That $3 million has been in that balance for a lot of years. There are a lot of places that don't have three nickels to rub together, let alone $3 million. There are towns in Saginaw County that have to take out a tax anticipation note to pay the county tax bill. Because they don't have the cash flow. So to your point, there are towns out there in our own county that don't have the cash flow that we have because you all have been careful with saving some money over the years. And your reserve balances are helpful. I don't have the updated version. I gave you what I have in hard copy just so you'd have it for your information. We don't have to talk about it tonight. And I'll have it updated by the next meeting. That would require a town meeting whether you do that before I couldn't know right back if you said no rate that satisfies the requirements for the state and pays the school bills county bill and our taxes start our budget then yeah we could look at that but I would suggest that we look at reserve funds before we do that. [1:09:08] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: What about estimates? Reserve funds and undesignated funds. I mean, I'm not interested in getting any more estimates. [1:09:16] Select Board member: No, we have real reserve numbers. They're just not updated. The sheet you have is real. They're just not updated. Some of it's forecasted. I was planning to use some of those. That's why that's presented the way it is. I just, I mean, I'm comfortable with the money that's in the bank being the money in the bank. I don't doubt that number. But it would be irresponsible of me to recommend using significant amounts of that beyond what we already have without having an audit. [1:09:50] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: A couple of scenarios that we did. We decided to do the Vita Road up and finish that project. So we went out and did that. So that didn't help the scenario for this year a little bit. [1:10:07] Speaker E (unidentified): Added to it and we added new road because it benefited another scenario I think would help [1:10:15] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Would be a referendum town meeting once this information gets circulated in real good shape throughout the town I think referendum would make a clear shot on a speech of voting on what they may want to spend and not spend but as far as the you know behind on the evaluations are behind on the, I want to say, what we're waiting for, the audit and all this stuff. It's been four years now. We finally got one year just recently. So I think most scenarios can help a little bit. Referendum, I've always been a supporter of a town meeting referendum. As long as you have your town meetings in between, you get a better number of what people want to spend. And this year is the last piece of the puzzle from the evaluation period that we all knew was coming and didn't want. But it's here and it's done. This is the last piece of that puzzle. This is what we've been waiting for the past year to put those numbers together. So will things be different next year? I think so, according to what the world situation is. But I think this year here is the perfect storm, was the perfect storm. And this is the last piece of the puzzle to break that last down right. I'm hoping for the future we've got to pay the bills of John [1:11:40] James Jameson, Board of Assessors member: meeting just my father just a couple of things real quick you know Randy [1:11:46] Speaker E (unidentified): mentions six years that we were on the board and so forth is still out of course and one of the things we have to face whenever we get in a time like this and I see a lot of things everybody's face is concerned about this it's not like I don't think any of you have ignored anything. It's the perfect storm, is what's happened. And unfortunately, that was the same situation we were in. And we had, for a couple, three years, we had to take a very conservative approach to the way we ran our budget. That's not to say that we tried to cut everything and fire people or anything like that. The question you have to ask yourself, So, do we need this item in the budget, or do we want this budget item here, okay? And don't take it any more than that, because if we go out there and try to cut anything individually, we make his job almost impossible. Because he's the one who's going to take the money and redistribute the money to make sure that everything gets covered. And that was usually the only reminder. The other thing is, and only because of the fact that I've worked in the past in organizations that dealt with state, do not depend on the state of Maine to do anything. And what they do is, they wait until it's time to, and here's the thing that kicks me, they wait the whole time until they get to April, May. They put together a budget that let's say was $10 million. They'll go back and say, oh, wait a minute, we can't fund that, we don't have enough money, so we're just not going to fund it. And they can do that, we can't, you can't, certainly. So just beware of the elephant who's walking around the house, okay? And just to really wish you really good luck and any support that we can to make your job a little bit easier. It's not going to be fun. It's nice to stay anyways, right? Thank you for that. [1:13:51] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So is there any more calling in from the public? I [1:13:59] Select Board member: Make a motion to come out of the public hearing. Second. [1:14:02] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Motion to come out of the public hearing. All in favor? Vote to set the bill rate to 26-27. [1:14:25] Select Board member: I'm sorry? I vote to set the bill rate to 11-75. Second. Motion to come out. [1:14:40] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: September 8 at 11.75 and the second on that any more discussion on it you're not all in favor of eleven seven five no rate for 26 27 all opposed Is that 5-0? Yes, sir. That's 5-0. [1:15:06] Select Board member: I'm going to turn to adjourn the assessor's meeting. [1:15:10] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Second. Mr. Donato, I'll be second to adjourn the assessment. Many seconds. Many seconds? Yes. [1:15:19] Select Board member: Are you adjourned? Yes. We did it. Oh, okay. Back [1:15:40] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: To the regular meeting. Good evening. I request to approve the minutes for the support board meeting of September 15th. Is there a written? [1:15:50] Select Board member: If there isn't, we'll approve the minutes of September 15th. [1:15:54] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Second. I'm going to do it with the seconder. Any questions about the minutes? Seeing none, all in favor of the minutes? Seeing none at all? [1:16:08] Select Board member: Mr. Chairman, I'll just make one comment. The minutes were the first time we've used the AI minutes service from the Council. So there was more information there than perhaps you all needed. I'm going to try my best to do a little bit more whittling away and editing That's ok yeah I noticed that AI came into my mind Yeah that was the transcript Because we're doing it again theoretically and I don't know if anybody's tried to verify it tonight but it's supposed to be closed captioning is working and AI is working so just an FYI for you all [1:16:44] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: 3.0 appointments 3.1 appointments to the merry meeting trail committee Wally Trotz and Jim Channa Mr. [1:17:00] Select Board member: Chairman, the Merry Meeting Trail is a committee that who received a $750,000 grant from the tribal federal money to do planning and design work on the rail trail corridor between Gardner and Topson. The grant is specifically for the corridor from the town of Bowdenham North to through the downtown part of Richmond to Tulip Street. That's where the, I don't know what, that's the grant, the limits of the grant. So they needed two representatives. You as a group had appointed the former group of select board members appointed Mike Raskavich to that group and he declined because it would be a potential conflict of interest for him to be on that officially on that committee as a member representing the town of Richmond because of his federal employment so he's indicated he'd like to stay involved with the committee as a technical advisor subject matter expert committees looking forward to his health and expertise from that perspective but They needed two people while he tried with someone who's done a lot of work on the trails in the town he actually took me on a hike this week and we hiked the whole trail system out behind the high school you know I one more and he's excited to take on this role make a motion to appoint Wally [1:18:24] James Jameson, Board of Assessors member: Trotton to the Merry Meeting Trail for supervisors second motion on floor and seconded to appoint [1:18:31] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Point that's [1:18:52] Select Board member: True Darrell was a former member as well since I retired they need They need two people, so. [1:19:02] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Split board discussion items and communications. There were none. Okay. Reaction items. 5.1, public hearing on the use of vehicle reserve to purchase an excavator at Public Works. [1:19:19] Select Board member: The motion to open public hearing for use of vehicle reserve on the purchase of an excavator for the lid works. [1:19:28] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Second. I now call to open a public hearing on for use for the vehicle to build versus excavator for public works. All in favor? We're open. [1:19:45] Select Board member: Can I ask about your purchase for an excavator? Please. [1:19:51] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Oh. There's three public excavators. I'm sorry, you all left, the town manager or the public health. You probably didn't answer that question, what exactly public health is looking for. Sure. [1:20:06] Select Board member: And Jenny Jameson is here to take any questions, technical questions on this piece of equipment that I wouldn't be able to answer. But we've looked at and we've received quotes for three pieces of equipment similar to the Daewoo that we have. It's 21 years old. The Daewoo, according to one of the capital documents that we have, Did O'Neill leave? Yes. Okay. He asked a question last time. It was supposed to be replaced in FY22, and it wasn't. Another capital document shows it to be replaced in 2030. That was supposed to be a $400,000 item, so I'm not sure they're apples and apples. But the answer to your question, we've got three quotes, Jordan Equipment, Union Farm, and Milton Catton. So we've looked at three pieces of equipment from those three suppliers that are the same size as the one we have and with the attachments that I'll let Jake deal with and I'll just tell him what the... [1:21:03] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Digging bucket, the cleanup bucket, it's a four-foot cleanup bucket, I requested a mulch ahead for roadside mowing for cleaning up the brush and I requested a hammer because I've noticed I've done a lot of digging in town and we've come across a water ledge in this town so I figured having that on hand would be very helpful. Am I going to use it all the time? No. If I use it more than a dozen times during the year, it pays for itself. The flare mower, I've been brought up, Jim brought it up, a few other people brought up, due to all the brush overtaking the road. So that will be a good piece of equipment. We can reclaim the roads back. If the trees are too big we can cut them and chip them we do have a little sickle bar on the vent track we've been cutting some rows but not a lot of them so all machines i had coated all machines with those four attachments we'll close it on the screen and all and they all come in and both same price for attachments. [1:22:33] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Can you see those boats up there? [1:22:37] Select Board member: I just, you know, like I said, I operate probably older equipment than that excavator, and I'm more than familiar with that excavator. I worked for the town for six years. I ran with this. The machine I'm running right now, the loader I'm running right now, The company I'm running is probably as old as that, if not as old as that. It's got 22,000 hours on it. [1:23:12] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: It goes every day. [1:23:14] Select Board member: It moves material every day, so I struggle sometimes with a piece of equipment. Towns, and I don't blame you if everybody wants something new, and what you're getting with the mulching head and the hammers, excellent idea, because you're going to run into the highest spots, and I totally understand it. The thing I have, I'll tell you where I live, and I'm struggling right now. I live on the corner of the new road and the pit center, and right now the culprit that was installed is on the wall. [1:23:57] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Yes, that was, that was, that was brought up to me. I wasn't going to replace it, I was going to wait until they were done hot topping, but it changed, so we replaced it. And as soon as they come in and start hot topping and grinding, I moved out and got away, so I wouldn't be in that way. But I plan on next week, not next week, after next, I plan on going back out and trying to get all that ditch done before the snowfall. [1:24:32] Select Board member: I struggle with that. Yeah. Where I come from, we would not do a ditch and a crep work after we pay. Absolutely not. And I'm not blaming you, I'm just saying I know what's going on because I work for the town. I've lived here my whole life and I know pretty much what's going on. But I struggle with the depth of that culvert a little bit, because if you look beyond the schools that's housed here, I'm not sure where the water's gone, because there's a swamp out there. And I'm not sure, I've never seen water go up here, and if you dig that ditch too deep, that swamp's coming right in. You know, I haven't taken a grade, but what I do for a living, I got a pretty good on it. And Bucky's going to test for that, because I drained something they said they couldn't be drained. But I mean, I don't know, I just struggled. I struggled all summer. I even tried to come in to visit with you, but the two times I come in, you're unavailable. I understand that. I get a little frustrated. But I also question the amount of time we use that excavator. Even when I work it, would it be more feasible to line the work up and rent a machine that would do the job for a month or two in the summer and send it back? [1:26:15] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: They do all the maintenance. [1:26:17] Select Board member: They take care of them. You send it back. Next year, you rent another one. You get another one. I'm curious how that would work out finance, and I may be totally all wet about that. You see what I'm saying? [1:26:34] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: I see your point on renting equipment. If I had the crew enough, that would be a good, I could do it. I could have people on that machine all the time. Right now I'm just a four-man crew. [Select Board member: I totally understand.] And I'm trying, I mean I've been in this field for over 25 years. I come from the next town over and we had the crew to do it. And when I first started here, it was, it was, you know, different. And you know, but now I have a field of stuff and I can start planning like this project, the new road, and beautiful road was more. I would have prepped, yes, I would have prepped the road before we even paid them, you know. I know we had the number of people we needed to do that work and [1:27:41] Select Board member: and all the other public works duties and responsibilities that I tasked him with, and the school tasks him with. How many hours on the machine? [1:27:52] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Yeah, it could be more. It ain't even broken. [1:27:56] Select Board member: Yeah. No, I mean, honestly. Yeah. It ain't even broken. [1:28:01] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Yeah, I see your point there, but as running a piece of equipment, the maintenance of that piece of equipment was not taken care of. So, I'm just in the state of, I'm going to be using it and it's going to break. And it's going to cost me X amount of money to fix it. You know, I could be totally wrong, that thing could run for the next 20 years like a charm. [1:28:34] Select Board member: But it's not running like a charm now. [1:28:39] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: It's struggling. The hydraulics are struggling really bad in it. [1:28:43] Select Board member: And we fixed some of that last winter. [1:28:46] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Yes. I've done a lot to it to get it through the times. [1:28:51] Select Board member: Putting a boom in it. I'm not ignorant because I work here. I know it's a short-handed crew. I know what can, what happens because I just struggle with, you know, you're going to spend and you threw numbers on the B road. I've never really made reference to what it costs to pave and take care of that road and it got done before the prep work got done. And for me, and what I've done, I'm 75 years old. I probably shouldn't be in a war or an excavator 11 1⁄2 hours a day, but I am, and I apologize for your full audience. Is there a battle away with a shot-handed crew like this, especially for projects like that? Is there a cheap way to do that? You've got to do a six-month lease, like through Borg does. Well, they do a six-month lease. You've got a brand-new piece of equipment that breaks these. They come and fix it and bring it home. [1:29:57] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Well, the lease is good, but, like, I mean, you have to use it. Because if you lease it and it sits out on the road for two or three days or two or three weeks because there's other stuff that has to come up and we've got to take care of, that's what I look at you're paying for a piece of equipment to sit there. [1:30:19] Select Board member: Have you looked into how much it costs compared to $200,000 for a piece of equipment? How many hours did we put on the excavator in the past year? [1:30:29] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: That's that is, I don't know how can we not know. [1:30:35] Select Board member: Don't we keep an equipment report? Well he knows what's on it total from what he can do. [1:30:41] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: No, I mean, I'm talking a weekly report, Bob. [1:30:46] Select Board member: You put down how many hours you could go on a piece of equipment. It's a simple matter. Well, I have to do a daily one. [Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Yeah, exactly.] Because I'm required by MSHAW. Exactly, it is. Required by everybody. I mean, right down to beginning and ending. My point is, there a more economical way to do the same job? I understand his struggles because he can't stay in it and he can't designate someone else to stay in it because he doesn't have enough people. I don't know if there's another scenario where you could hire somebody by time in the summer to run that so you could utilize it more, but then you've got to have more in your budget. It's on the plan for a replacement in 2030. Try leasing for a couple of years. You've got a new piece of equipment, but you've still got the old one that you can train people on. I mean, this is still a business. I don't know about you, but I don't want to train three guys on a brand-new piece of equipment and then say, geez, what's the new guy? He didn't realize it. You know, he ripped this off, he ripped that off. I believe the 2005 is in the 2022 replacement. That's the document I found. [1:32:04] James Jameson, Board of Assessors member: It was in the 2030 when I was on the board. [1:32:07] Select Board member: I was on the Tempia plan, the Escobedo was 2030. So it was supposed to last 27 years? This is a 2005 piece of equipment. No, 2025. So when you're putting less than $100 a year on it, yeah. The border guard right now says it's $20,000 to $30,000 for a six-month lease. And you should be able to piggyback DOTs, they may get it cheaper. But that's what they do, they run excavators all summer and you know, loaders and backhoes in the middle of satellite camps. If they have something, you're obviously able to begin that. But you can rent that machine for what you want to do that summer. In other words, if you want a different attachment on it, something for this from the next summer to do some other project, you can break that. It gives you more options. But then again, like he said, to get a piece of this anyway, got the hammer, they totally understand. And I can tell you the history of why the roads away, I [1:33:19] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: mean we have time. I'd love the air, but we don't tonight. But I've seen, I've been over these roads and, you know, there's... [1:33:28] Select Board member: No, I can just tell you the history of why your roads are closing in like they did, because we had a machine that they spent, one guy spent a month on it every year, going back as far as that thing would reach, and then that got kiboshed in the eyes of saving money. Well, look how much money you've saved. Yeah. [1:33:52] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So as far as the machine itself, I know a little while ago some of the rollers were busting off the frame section on it, so they had to be welded back on again? [1:34:02] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Yeah, I've had to weld it a few times because over the years of, again, not being properly maintained, you know, sitting on the sand pile and the salt and not being rinsed off, you know, that's just... [1:34:19] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: You mentioned the hydraulics. I mean, after it heats up or something, it loses power. [1:34:25] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Yeah, I mean, you can run machines that, like you said, could have 20,000 hours and they'll dig like crazy. And you can jump in a machine with 6,000 and you're like... [1:34:38] Select Board member: You don't want to hear the history of the machines where I'm working. There's another one in there that's got 18,000, never been a pie, still baking every day. [1:34:52] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Then you look at the history of it, who ran it, how they maintained it. Did they just keep it running to this point? [1:35:02] Select Board member: See, that's the thing I put the hammer on. I didn't want to put a hammer on a new machine. I put the hammer on that old blister. [1:35:09] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Well, that's the problem. I don't think the old Daewoo could handle a hammer. I think it would rattle a pot and run the cars right down the street. Well, then you've got to pay someone to fix it, you know. [1:35:24] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So the scenario for renting on the $20,000, $30,000 a year, two years. Or $60,000. Or $60,000. The Daewoo, I think, in a day cost about $60,000, and he's looking at $122,000 to $160,000, depending on the one. I guess his preferred is $139,000. So time-wise, I mean, again, we've spent $100,000 on a piece of equipment over there in the past few years, and you were on board when we did that, and I wouldn't have given $50,000 for it, all the less. That Ventrac is about as glorified of a landscaping tool as money can buy, and that was just shy of a hundred grand. That's the one that he tries to clear the road with and whatnot. Good effort, but it shouldn't raise foot in the field. [1:36:31] Select Board member: It's not the right tool for the job. It's a lawnmower. Another thing is like somebody asked, they said they saw a gadlim going up by the school and they thought that looked messy. If you put a head like he wants to put on it, 's not going to look much better when it's first done. It's going to grind it up now, but when it's first done you're going to still see the limbs, They do it and, you know, but that's immaterial because actually when that's done up there right now, it doesn't look too bad. No. Everything's moved back where it was and a while down the road it's going to look nice. I didn't come here to beat on anybody. I just went out of the driveway the other day. No, but it was a great walk. It's more God's problem. My worry now is because you've been all summer trying to get what little you've got done down there that's going to be pro-solid before you get the rest done and once you get right on it. And that's not your fault. I'm not blaming you. [1:37:54] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: No, that's why I mentioned to upgrade the excavator. [1:38:00] Select Board member: That's not going to get the job done any sooner. [1:38:03] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Well, you get in a good rhythm. You could pound out some ditches in a day. I know I've done it long enough. It's just like a routine for me. I mean, sometimes I can fill three trucks and sit there and wait for them, and they're only dumping them out of the way. So, I mean, I'm not saying I'm an expert, but... [1:38:26] Select Board member: I'm not saying that. I'm not questioning the ability. I'm questioning whether you're going to be allowed to be there. We made that. He and I have had that discussion. We had priorities that, first and foremost, were to get the contractor in and get their work done so that we can get that pavement down before it got cold. And then we had to wait, because we knew we needed to wait until it cooled off before we got back on that fresh hot top. Before anything. Before we do anything. But we also, with all the other variables that are in the air, I'll try and, if I can, wrap up a little bit of the discussion and say that I supported his idea that we needed a new piece of equipment based on the condition that was in and the money we've already spent trying to extend its life, if you will. And it doesn't have the capability to have the equipment, the attachments that we need. They won't fit that piece of equipment. Those are my variables that I made a decision on. I totally understand that. I just question, is there a more economical way to do it? I mean, if you buy that machine now, you finish this project in three weeks or a month, then it's going to sit over there in the garage for the rest of the year. [1:39:51] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: That's why I have the mulch egg. I can put that on, send it out, someone can be mowing the side of the road. It's how I look into the future. If we're not ditching, we can be cleaning roads. Because I ain't going to be able to get all these roads done in a year. It's going to take time to reclaim them. [1:40:14] Select Board member: You've been put into a serious situation, and I can give you the history of why I'm still not working at that time. Is it rubber track? [1:40:25] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Yes, it's rubber track, yeah. [1:40:27] Select Board member: I couldn't work for the guy that took over after my original phone number. [1:40:33] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Yeah, so that's why I brought it up and have the piece of equipment. So, as we put money into the roads, that we can keep them maintained. [1:40:47] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Any more questions directly related to the excavator? [1:40:51] Speaker E (unidentified): No. I told you. Yeah, just one question. I know that when we were all on the board, you yourself included, we had a big discussion that went on forever until we finally put it through one night where anything, any purchase of over $100,000 would go to some kind of vote by the public. Is that gone now? I don't know. I'm sure it was then. [1:41:22] Select Board member: Well, many asked that same question in an email this week. And the town meeting for vehicle reserve was consolidated in 2017. The history I'm reading from the documents, in 2017 they combined the individual Public Works Vehicle and Equipment Reserve, Police Department Vehicle and Equipment Reserve, Fire Department, they combined them all into one in 2017. And then that required a town meeting vote to spend the money out of that account. In 2019, they amended that to allow for a public hearing to allow for the use of those funds. Does that answer your question? No. It does to me. Okay. What was your question, Neil? I understand now. Yes, Neil, we used to have to have the vote, but they changed it in 2019. So now the board has to, they can okay the expenditure out of the reserve vehicle company. With a public hearing. They have to have a public hearing to do it. [1:42:23] Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah, but it's an interesting situation. If you go and spend X number of dollars, okay, who's approved it as far as the public is concerned? Nobody. It's five people. [1:42:35] Select Board member: Well, I beg to differ because what we do in the town warrant every year is assign X number of dollars into that reserve account on the town warrant, which then authorizes this body to spend those funds with the public. [1:42:48] Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah, I understand what you're saying, and here's the same argument that we had, and that is, when we're doing that, we're kind of doing one of these, because we're not sure if we passed the vote, and that's why that came about. [1:43:00] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: We just had to post it. [1:43:02] Speaker E (unidentified): And we had to post it, and like seven or ten days, whatever the limit is, and we only did it on a voting day. So if it could come through on the day we vote for the heroes of Tuscany or wherever it is, it would go through it. But I'm not trying to say that anybody's trying to do dishonest, but let's try to get it back to where we can sit down with it and say, OK, this is how it's going to happen. That's how that's going to happen. OK, this is what he is going to get. I think since we have a public works commission and he's approached this from the point of this is what a professional does, you guys argue it up and finally until you figure out what is it you want. But I think looking at the, just down the road, it doesn't make any difference what we think. As soon as people start thinking, you know, 100,000, you know, it's not small potatoes anymore. And can we dig? Is it possible? Or is it going to be too much of a pain in the future if we are able to have something that goes back to, well, you know, it doesn't have to be 100,000, it could be 150,000. But that, you know, that stamp of approval is a real uncomfortable feeling when you say, okay, we don't have to worry about this and this is getting people right in line. Just my opinion. Okay, thank you. [1:44:43] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Thank you for that. Anything else from the public? Any nothing else? No motion. [1:44:52] Select Board member: We'll speak about a public hearing. Second. [1:44:55] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Mr. Glatter-Ford is seconded to come out of public hearing on vehicle reserve purchase experience. All in favor? [1:45:07] Select Board member: Motion to enter into public hearing the general assistance ordinance. No. Well, we were asking if you would consider the purchase of the excavator. [1:45:18] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Oh, we're not going to do the next item? This is an action item. We can either do them together or we can do them one at a time. Okay. [1:45:24] Select Board member: Yeah, it was intended that you have the public hearing and then you take action on the item that was in the public hearing. Okay. Sorry. so [1:45:37] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: waiting for a motion on 5.1 the [1:45:46] Select Board member: 139.25 is after the credit for the trading yes [1:45:52] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: that is the preferred is the cap I mean [1:45:56] Select Board member: I don't want to speak for you but we talked about the cap being overpriced because it's a cap and the same about the motor what's a proper motor So we selected the Jordan as being a piece of equipment. It's close by for service, and it meets all the needs and requirements for what he asked for. Yes. We've got $17,000 for the day wood in trade, which reduced that cost to $139,000. And you have the paperwork in your packet. I can display it on the screen. This is the Bobcats that we keep purchasing right here. I happened to be working Friday when the Jordan Equipment gentleman showed up in the parking lot over here. I wasn't sure who he was looking for, so I went and met with him and talked with him for a little while. He's got one sitting on the lot. Andy Gustafson. Did you put it to the 139? Yep, 139. It purchases the piece of equipment, which is $100,000, about $94,000, and then the attachments. Did it take a motion? Does it have an add-on? No. No. [1:47:18] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: no that's thank god we don't want that well most of them do go into like a regen mode well my cap [1:47:28] Select Board member: does yeah me wear a cap there yeah mine's going to brazil it's not mine but yeah first of all when i operate this [1:47:45] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: I ran a full wall PD and now we're going to a regen mode, you know. [1:47:53] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So I make a motion to authorize the use of 139,025.05 out-of-vehicle reserve funds to replace the day rule with a bucket and no more than 139.05 from out of the reserve account. Second. [1:48:21] Select Board member: I don't have a question, but I have a request that the select board have a plan of attack, if you will, if this is purchased, what is going to happen in the next six months with this piece of equipment? As Bob said, if we're just going to use it for a month, will that happen? He's buying the mulch and the amount of work this town is going to do to get the roads back where they need to be. He'll cut the old wood on the road. I would just like to see a plan. Because when I'm asked why are we getting this piece of equipment in the middle of winter, let's be real, I would like to be able to say this is our plan. This is what best case scenario we are going to be doing. So that is one thing I'd like to see. I'd also like to see that we have a better way to track maintenance and accountability for it being taken care of, if that has been the case for the reason or part of the reason that this particular past one has not been able to live a longer life. Does that happen in that case? [1:49:27] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: No. No, the small ones don't. But to answer her question is, yes, we will have a maintenance on it. I will make sure. My plan is I got some stuff to do. I plan on going back to the new road and ditching and doing what I can until the frost sets in. And if we get that done before the frost sets in, I'm going to put the mulcher head on and I'm going to pick the worst road in town and start on that. That way I can have me or another person doing that and I could have a couple other guys following him with a chipper and whatever. He leaves a mess. We ended up doing this on the butte road a couple years. It was a mess and we had to go back and cut it and chip it. So I figured if I have the crew go together, it's done. You know, it's not going to sit there and just look bad, so. [1:50:38] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: To be clear on your statement about that, it's not a mulching, it's a flail in there. Oh yeah. It's a flail wall. [1:50:45] Select Board member: Yeah, it's similar, I mean the flail, that was a flail wall with hammerheads on it. [1:50:51] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: I just wanted it clear, it was not a mulching. [1:50:53] Select Board member: On the trackless, and that would do a nice job. The one beauty of it was the encyclopedia was most everything stayed in a ditch. The encyclopedia kind of was so close. I'm very observant. [1:51:10] Road Commissioner / Highway crew: Yes, that's good. I'm glad. I want to make sure people see what I'm trying to accomplish in my position. [1:51:20] Select Board member: And I understand the difference, you know, with the flail mower and that, is that's a head that will actually mow it and lay it out ahead of itself, you know, so. [1:51:31] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So there's a motion on the floor and there's a second. Did you write down all the requests as far as? [1:51:36] Select Board member: I got many to request, yes. Make sure that maintenance is a written plan or a written policy. And I appreciate it. I appreciate the quest for a maintenance plan, and I can tell you that in the six months that he's been in the director's seat the shop, I'd like to have y'all go take a tour I know Bucky gets over there occasionally and visits the shop is night and day from what it was when I arrived here a year ago I'm a year old, he hired me in September I started last September and I'm very proud of Jay's efforts and what he's done not just for the shop but with the trucks The trucks, he's shown me some places in the trucks where we're going to be looking at the need to replace some of those trucks because of the lack of maintenance and the neglect. And those tracks on that excavator weren't breaking off because of misuse. They were breaking off because they were rusting because of the salt, because of the lack of maintenance. and I can tell you that I'm very happy with his taking care of that stuff over there and bringing some of it back to life so when we get this new piece of equipment we can go have a tour that'd be great so maybe that can be the start of one of our select board meetings when we receive this piece of equipment if it's approved [1:53:04] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: is there any more questions on either of them or about them And on all in favor of not to exceed $139,025.05, I have a vehicle reserved for the 26 Bobcat P88 Excavator and tools to go along with it, which includes the flail mower, the jackhammer, and a couple of bucking. All in favor? [1:53:35] Select Board member: Opposed? Jake, thank you for all your work on that. I know it's better than the cross-country. I don't know if you've got an early start, Mark, so I don't know if you're going to defend it if you want to head out. Early start? Well, you start earlier than most of us. Well, some of us. [1:53:54] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: 5.2, hold public hearing on the General Assistance Ordinance. [1:53:58] Select Board member: I take a motion to hold public hearing to accept comments regarding the General Assistance Ordinance. [1:54:04] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Second. I'm going to forward and second. All in favor of public hearing? All in favor of public hearing? Then the Assistance Ordinance. [1:54:18] Select Board member: Yes. The General Assistance Ordinance, we did this last year. It addresses the updates that they make in the appendices, which relate to the amounts of money that we're allowed to give to an eligible recipient of general assistance, as it's evaluated based on the individual circumstances, whoever it is that walks in the door. And that has to be approved by the state, and this is the state ordinance, and the updates are the state's. So this particular motion, based on the guidance and recommendations from the state of Maine and the Department of Health and Human Services, if you haven't adopted the entire ordinance in a few years, they recommend doing the entire ordinance and the appendices. The entire ordinance has not changed in language since the last time you adopted it, so I'm recommending that you re-adopt the ordinance language itself, and then adopt the new maximums, or what they call it, for the amounts of money that we're allowed to give to a resident. That's those before you. [1:55:25] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So I entertain a motion. [1:55:28] Select Board member: You're in public hearing. Is there any public comment? [1:55:33] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Anything from the public? Motion. Okay. I would. I'm looking forward to my public. Second. Second. I'm in favor of coming up. I'm in public hearing. It's an action item. I entertain a motion. to update the General Assistance Ordinance. [1:55:59] Select Board member: I'll make a motion to update the General Assistance Ordinance. Second. [1:56:03] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Motion is on the floor and seconded to update our General Assistance Ordinance. Any more questions on it? If there's none, all in favor? 6.1, public comment. All the written reports and other businesses. 6.1, public comments and questions. I'll make a motion. 6.1, public comments. comments and questions 6.2 [1:56:51] James Jameson, Board of Assessors member: top managers report it's long you guys have a written copy of it [1:56:58] Select Board member: I'll post it on the website. well it's already posted on the website with the packet. the high points are beetle roads complete, you can see a breakdown of the cost there. I'll take any questions on that if you have any. the town office, we're going to begin work on the town office this. The siding is rotting in a bunch of places. The trim boards have fallen off on the back and over on this side. So Carver Construction, well, the facility's manager is James Valley, and he's attempted to get multiple quotes. He was only able to get one firm to give us a quote. It was Carver Carpentry. The quote is for $7,380 to do the work and the painting with a $2,000 contingency. So I've indicated that you should proceed with that work. It's in the budget, and it's an amount based on the purchasing policy that allows us to just proceed. But you want to be notified for anything over $5,000. So I'm letting you all know that, and we're going to try our best to get that work done before it gets cold. What part of the budget is it coming from? It's coming out, that comes out of the town properties reserve. Sorry, I was trying to make sure I got the name right. And it was actually approved as part of that $60,000 amount that Lori had from two years ago. It just never got done last year. So she asked me to make sure I reminded you of that because it was approved prior. We just didn't go forward with it. And it was part of a larger amount of money that was spent on this building and other buildings that happened before I got here. [1:58:29] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So is that list getting smaller? [1:58:31] Select Board member: This is it. This is the last part of that list. Yeah. So that doesn't require any actions. So unless you have questions, I'm going to keep going. I do. And I apologize. I'm just trying to understand. In our reserve, the building and maintenance reserve, the specific language is this account may be expended by the authority of the Board of Selectmen. So doesn't that require us to give you the authority to spend the money that you're saying this costs from a reserve account. So you said that town properties reserve those at the same? It's not the building repair and maintenance? But town properties or town building reserve remain. I'll be happy. I've asked Lori. She gave me the breakdown of this last fall and we didn't get anywhere close to trying to get this worked on last fall. So this is the last chance for us to get it done. this year. If I needed to ask permission, I'm sorry that I didn't ask permission. I thought it had been approved two years ago. For me, it is just confusing given the language of what is written in our reserve accounts that it requires the Board of Selectmen's approval. The whole thing that this had already been approved just hasn't been done yet. Alright. I can certainly bring it back to you. I can try to put off the work. I don't know if we'll get it done. I'm not asking for that. I'm just asking for my own sense of clarity in terms of moving forward as we progress through these types of things. What our... Okay. I just move. I will ask permission. I will make sure that we do that going forward. If there's any expenses that I think you guys... We talked about this during the purchasing policy, and I thought it was under $10,000. And I was moving forward with those. But that's different from a reserve account because we never clarified that it could come from a reserve account. You're saying that our policy supersedes what was voted on at town meeting, and that means any policy that the Board of Selectmen creates can supersede anything that is voted on at town meeting is how I'm taking that. Okay. Because the wording was what was voted on at town meeting, not our purchasing policy. [2:00:58] James Jameson, Board of Assessors member: If that makes sense. [2:01:01] Select Board member: And again, it's my own sense of clarity and understanding so that we can clean these things up so it isn't as convoluted. [2:01:11] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: That's all. Well, we could get permission tonight. I [2:01:16] Select Board member: understand that, but I'm just saying that this is where there are some points of confusion and there are people that ask questions about how the authority is given. [Speaker E (unidentified): I will ask] Lori, I'll ask Kara, we'll see if we can find the minutes of the meeting when it was approved two years ago and I'll certainly bring that to you it's just going to take time and I was looking to first move forward the authority to move forward on the contract but I'm going to pull back and we'll wait. I'm not asking for that Jim I am hearing the group stated that we should be doing it [2:01:58] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: that way though I'm making a motion to accept the proposal from Congress construction to move forward and pay for the estimate $7,000 out of the building reserve account second all in favor of that $2,000 reserve on a $7,000 something. [2:02:21] Select Board member: $7,380 is the quote with a $2,000 contingency if he finds things, when he starts tearing the building apart, that need more material. [2:02:32] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So I'll change that amendment to the $7,300 with a $2,000 contingency possibility. And there's a second? Mm-hmm. [2:02:42] Select Board member: I'm on paper. I didn't realize that would be an action item. The New Mills Dam. This is the high point for the rest of this stuff. You can read and I'll post it. It's already online and I'll post it again. I've had a number of meetings in the last couple of weeks. The town received a petition from Upstream, which is a non-profit that promotes rivers being dam-free and or have existing dams be retrofitted with fish ladders. And that is something that they've presented to the state, the Department of Marine Resources, and the Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, IFW of Maine, to compel a fish ladder be added to, eventually, to be added to the New Mills Dam, of which this body is a part owner. And I'm going to just skip to the end and tell you that there's a lot of science on both sides about water quality and fish. And at the end of the day, I would tell you that I would be recommending that we, and I think this body has done it in the past, I don't have the minutes of that meeting, but post that action because of the cost. As a part owner, we'd be looking at paying for a fish ladder that would cost anywhere from six to eleven million dollars, and then we'd have to maintain it. We'd be a part owner of that cost to allow for the fish to go upstream from the Kennebec River into our lake, our pond, and then beyond. So I do have a legal opinion that was pained by the attorneys for the city of Gardner. They've asked me to keep that confidential, and I'm happy to present that to you if you'd like to have that discussion in an executive session. You'd be eligible to have a legal executive session at the next meeting. Isn't there enough of a dam below that one? Yeah, the paper dam. Yeah, the paper dam, and then the paper dam would be first, and then there's the power, Kruger owns the dam that's next in line. And then our dam would be the last of us. So we'd be the third, but once the paper dam is, once the, way I understand it, once the state directs the paper dam to accommodate this fish ladder, the licensing for the power dam obligates them to do it. So then we would be third, and we'd have to make a decision about whether we were going to do it, legally fight that. Wait a minute, below that one, no, you can, you can talk about, we can talk about the agenda for the next meeting when we do, and I'd recommend that we put an executive session on that agenda. [2:05:32] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Yeah, I would recommend that too. Okay. And bring everybody up to speed in exactly what we're talking about. Right. With that. [2:05:37] Select Board member: And other than that, Peter York, I want to point out that Will was able to hire Peter York, who's a town resident who works as an attendant out at the transfer station. He's been out there the last couple weeks, or the last week and a half anyway. Peter York. No relations in the state. No relations. No relations. I met with the schools out here just before the meeting today to talk about their interest in doing a land and water conservation thing for the playground replacement. That's a year out. Trunk retreat planning is ongoing. We're changing it up. So it's worth mentioning now that we're looking for trunk people to volunteer to put trunks. Not going to use the waterfront. We're going to put all the trunks in the health center parking lot next door. And we're going to focus the efforts of the logistics in closing off all the roads to just the top of the hill. We're not going to close the waterfront or Front Street. And that's because Saturday evening saves us a ton of money in overtime. He's off the hook for having to put out the barricades. He'll pre-place them. Police and fire will do the placing of the barricades for closing off Saturday night and then putting them away. He'll pick them up on Monday. Day so care is running that show reaching out soliciting donations and sponsors for the trunketry. We have the auditor RFP update. We have one in hand and one coming this week, so we'll have two proposals. And when I have those in hand, I will be meeting with the school department, and together with their leadership, we'll be reviewing those two proposals, and then setting up a meeting with you all to go over those and selecting one. And if you want to do interviews of them, I would make those arrangements in coordination with the school department. Because it'll be a firm that's going to do both the audits for us and the schools. They have to be done in concert. There'll be two audits. There'll be individual audits for us and the schools. But because I'm the treasurer for both, they have to be connected. So it's wise for us to have the same auditor doing both. And that's the way the RFP was written. Library recruitment, library interviews are going on. Fire chief interviews start this week on Thursday. Any questions? [2:08:07] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Any ETA, any decisions on what the library has to do? [2:08:13] Select Board member: We have done all the first round interviews for the librarian position as of today, and we are having two come back next Monday for a second interview. And I would expect that we'll have in the library two members of the library board trustees have been involved in the interviews with me, and we have some great applicants, super high qualified folks have applied for this position even though it's a part time position. [2:08:46] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Anybody have any questions for the town manager when they're willing to select board members? [2:08:57] Select Board member: Really just had one thing. I did have a further discussion with Ann Page about the Abenaki Nation, working with getting a committee started for them to maybe have something down to the one from Park or whatever from Memorial. And maybe another, if it's okay, have another discussion with her for something to write to put into the, or on the website and the Facebook page, asking people if they'd like to join the committee to kind of get something started. I'll figure out how she wants to put that out there, or what to write, and how to get the care out of it. I was just saying, let me know if you need any staff support. I was just curious how our office staff was doing, but I know we hired a new person. We've seen how everyone's gelling. Any updates? Well, I can't speak directly to Personnel Matters. I knew that, but as I told you. But I'm happy to tell you and the public at large that Dawn Noyes, who's been with us probably about a month, maybe a little less than a month, is doing really well. She is, she is arranged for and is conducting her own training of Terry and Karen McIntyre, who is our part-time library slash front counter person, and she is shadowing Lori and learning more and more about what Lori's position entails with the idea of that transition occurring sometime. But I think she's a breath of fresh air, and yeah, things are going really well. Awesome, yep, thanks for asking this. [2:11:22] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Week Thursday we have four [2:11:29] Select Board member: interviews this Thursday and two of the one of the candidates out of town so we're making arrangements to have two more in the other two there were six total that well we had about eight I say about we had nine applicants three of them we didn't choose to interview six we chose to interview we're doing four of them this week and two either next week or the week after and then we'll go into the second round and I've got to tell you that I'm very appreciative of the Thompson fire chief Glen Gordon and Bowdoin fire chief Tom Gary for their participation in our interviews, so they're assisting in our interview panel. And then our command staff will be involved in the second round of interviews, and that would be Matt Roberge as a captain, and then Dan Welch and Donald Burr, who are on our command staff for the fire department. So we're looking forward to getting that process moving forward as well. [2:12:23] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: So that's a great question. It seems like you brought it up, Matt, over the five thousand. I know you're speaking all the time, but... [2:12:31] Select Board member: No, it's continuing well. Everything's running as it was, just as smooth as you can, and the time of change, I don't call it a terminal, but just the terminal around the change. But it's, you know, the three of us are keeping it going pretty well. Mr. Chairman that reminds me and we'll have another meeting beforehand but just to let everyone know the fire department's open house is scheduled for Saturday October 17th in the afternoon they're going to have the bounce house for the kids again provided by the school district's [Speaker E (unidentified): parent teacher group] and there'll be a bunch of tours and stuff to hand out for the kids for the open house for fire department on October 17th Great. [2:13:18] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Six words to the Parliament's committees. Thank you for that, Matt. Anything else from any of the committees? Probably one here. [2:13:25] Select Board member: Any events committee meeting tomorrow night at 6.30 here? [2:13:48] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: 7.1, across the, approve the town warrant. [2:13:51] Select Board member: Make a motion to approve the warrant. Second. [2:13:54] Robert Bosch, Select Board Chair: Motion's on the floor. Seconded to approve the warrant. All in favor? Motion to adjourn. [2:14:05] James Jameson, Board of Assessors member: Well, do you mind killing the switch?